Battery issues

9mmPreacher · 05-29-2008, 11:30 AM

So, I took my battery back to the dealer since I bought it used and it doesn't start without a jump. I also bought a trickle charger and thought that would ease my woes. Nope, it appears that the battery won't hold a charge at all. The dealer appears to think the battery is okay, I don't think they actually tested it properly. When I picked it up from the dealer they said it was good. So I put it on the bike and yes it started I took it around the block and let it idle for a little bit. I shut it down and then tried to start it back up again and it wouldn't turn over. It was very weak and didn't start.

So, I am almost positive that my battery is weak and won't hold a charge. Does this sound right? I know there is not an alternator, but is there something similar to this on the bike? I could definitely use some help.

Thanks guys,
Drew

**jonathan180iq** · 05-29-2008, 01:21 PM

There have been some recent conversations about generators, alternators and magnetos. While I don't remember which is which, there is definately a charging system on this bike.

Based on what you mentioned, your problem might lie in the charging system itself.
If your battery had enough juice to crank the bike and then you took it around the block, the battery should have been recharged while riding. I mean, if the bike shop charged the battery and it remained charged long enough to sit around and then crank the bike, I would think that the battery would be in decent shape. Like I said, the fact that it wouldn't recharge while riding would concern me.

That being said, I'll be the first one to tell you that I'm not electrical expert. So, other opinions are more than welcome.

turbo chicken · 05-29-2008, 01:43 PM

They should be able to do a load test on the battery... Heck just about any autoparts store should be able to do it.

This shows the amount of voltage after a 'load' is put on a battery similar to what the starter does when you start it.

Now there is a minimium voltage that the battery should keep under a load... if the battery drops below that voltage then the battery is dead. not sure what it is for a motorcycle batter but for cars it's right at 9 volts..

you can test the voltage of a battery terminal to terminal and show the correct voltage... but put the battery under stress/use it and the voltage drops too low tha battery is dead... put your multi meter
on the battery and crank it for 5-10 seconds and see what the voltage goes down to...

I'm very familiar with this on cars as i used to test batteries on cars all the time at home and work... never had the pleasure of doing a motorcycle battery. I don't even know the voltage and amps that a standard motorcycle battery puts out...

My final suggestion is to take it to a battery store... those guys almost always know their stuff...

Second have the starter and alternator checked...

Wait... isn't there a service manual... i really need to read that thing... perhaps i'll do so and post back tonight...

From my expierence batteries more often that not got out before they should because they repeatedly get drained, recharged, drained, recharged, drained... i mean drained as "left the ingnition on" or "or parking lights on" drained and has to be charged by a battery charger or jumped off and charged by the alternator.

other times it is failure of something else that causes in that battery, starter, alternator circuit that causes the early death of the battery by either putting too much load to start or not charging it enough... most of the time if everything isn't tested at once (always test the starter, alternator, battery at the same time) and the realy underlying cause of the dying battery is found when they end up back in the shop with a newly installed battery wondering why their car won't start ... which usually lies with the starter or alternator

ok i rambles there a little... off to read the service manual!!

**jonathan180iq** · 05-29-2008, 02:24 PM

That's true. All autoparts stores around here offer free battery testing. Just take it in and get a quick answer.

turbo chicken · 05-29-2008, 02:29 PM

check page 166 of the service manual there's a trouble shooting flow chart for "battery runs down quickly"

check page 172 for "starter motor will not run" flow chart

i need to download the manual to my laptop at home so i can take it to the bike with me...

Easy Rider · 05-29-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9mmPreacher

So, I am almost positive that my battery is weak and won't hold a charge. Does this sound right? I know there is not an alternator, but is there something similar to this on the bike? I could definitely use some help.

I'm almost positive that your are positively right about the bad battery.

(Haven't we discussed that with you already, just in the past few days?? My memory ain't too great sometimes.)

Then, yes it absolutely DOES have an alternator. Just like one on a car but much smaller. It works the same way and all the tests are the same.

If you go to a battery shop, they will properly test the battery AND the charging system......usually free.

If you have a multi-meter we can tell you how to do some rough tests yourself.........or you could do a search here for keywords like: battery and charge or charging.

mrlmd1 · 05-29-2008, 06:41 PM

I went through this before - It must be mentioned that ALL new batteries must be FULLY charged before use, not put into service right after, or 2 hours after, the dealer fills them with acid and you leave the store. If they are not fully charged up first, they will be shot the first or second time they are used to start the engine, and they will not hold a charge after that. I went through 3 new batteries from a battery store because the dealer or counter guy didn't know that. Read the directions included with the batteries, especially the sealed ones. Your problem is most likely the battery and not the bike.
It's very easy to check the charging systems, just measure the voltage at the battery with the bike at a few thousand rpm, above ideal speed.

Easy Rider · 05-29-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

I went through this before -

It's very easy to check the charging systems, just measure the voltage at the battery with the bike at a few thousand rpm, above ideal speed.

That IS a very good caution for someone getting a new battery but not likely it was the cause of his problem, as he got the bike USED...........and it's unlikely that the dealer put a new battery in it before the sale.

What, pray tell is the ideal speed ?? :??:

Sorry, couldn't resist.
Mabye you should have finished the information by telling what the voltage would be at that point.......between 13 and 14 volts. An absolute minimum of 12.6 V if the battery is fully charged.

It should be noted too that the charging system on the GZ is so puny that a totally dead battery might drag the voltage down enough to make it LOOK like the charging system is not working. One should always test the charging voltage with a known good, mostly charged battery.

mrlmd1 · 05-30-2008, 11:57 AM

Got me ER - wrong spelling (idle). Didn't spell check, proof read, etc,etc.

Didn't write the voltage because I thought that would be common knowledge from being around a while, owning cars, etc.

Good point that the voltage should be checked with a fairly good at least partially charged, rather than a totally dead battery. He could have gotten a bad battery with the bike, where it may start up once after being "fully" charged on a charger, but not start up again, even after a ride on the bike. As you and others have said, and from personal experience going through 3 batteries from the dealer, the charging system on this bike will not be sufficient to bring a bad battery up to full capacity - you need to put in on a charger overnight to get enough juice in it for the one start. I don't think the dealer would have sold a bike with a defective charging system either, and I don't think it's too common for these things to fail.

I'd lay odds on the battery, get a new one and put it on a charger overnight before use and bet the problem is solved. Just my 2 or 3 cents worth.

Easy Rider · 05-30-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

I'd lay odds on the battery, get a new one and put it on a charger overnight before use and bet the problem is solved. Just my 2 or 3 cents worth.

You just never know what you're getting with a used bike. I ran mine down just playing around with the turn signals. After that, it wouldn't hold a charge......even after an overnight with the charger. Only 2 years old. I suspect it sat in a discharged condition while at the dealer.

05-29-2008, 11:30 AM	#1
9mmPreacher Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 11	Battery issues So, I took my battery back to the dealer since I bought it used and it doesn't start without a jump. I also bought a trickle charger and thought that would ease my woes. Nope, it appears that the battery won't hold a charge at all. The dealer appears to think the battery is okay, I don't think they actually tested it properly. When I picked it up from the dealer they said it was good. So I put it on the bike and yes it started I took it around the block and let it idle for a little bit. I shut it down and then tried to start it back up again and it wouldn't turn over. It was very weak and didn't start. So, I am almost positive that my battery is weak and won't hold a charge. Does this sound right? I know there is not an alternator, but is there something similar to this on the bike? I could definitely use some help. Thanks guys, Drew Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

05-29-2008, 01:43 PM	#3
turbo chicken Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 75	They should be able to do a load test on the battery... Heck just about any autoparts store should be able to do it. This shows the amount of voltage after a 'load' is put on a battery similar to what the starter does when you start it. Now there is a minimium voltage that the battery should keep under a load... if the battery drops below that voltage then the battery is dead. not sure what it is for a motorcycle batter but for cars it's right at 9 volts.. you can test the voltage of a battery terminal to terminal and show the correct voltage... but put the battery under stress/use it and the voltage drops too low tha battery is dead... put your multi meter on the battery and crank it for 5-10 seconds and see what the voltage goes down to... I'm very familiar with this on cars as i used to test batteries on cars all the time at home and work... never had the pleasure of doing a motorcycle battery. I don't even know the voltage and amps that a standard motorcycle battery puts out... My final suggestion is to take it to a battery store... those guys almost always know their stuff... Second have the starter and alternator checked... Wait... isn't there a service manual... i really need to read that thing... perhaps i'll do so and post back tonight... From my expierence batteries more often that not got out before they should because they repeatedly get drained, recharged, drained, recharged, drained... i mean drained as "left the ingnition on" or "or parking lights on" drained and has to be charged by a battery charger or jumped off and charged by the alternator. other times it is failure of something else that causes in that battery, starter, alternator circuit that causes the early death of the battery by either putting too much load to start or not charging it enough... most of the time if everything isn't tested at once (always test the starter, alternator, battery at the same time) and the realy underlying cause of the dying battery is found when they end up back in the shop with a newly installed battery wondering why their car won't start ... which usually lies with the starter or alternator ok i rambles there a little... off to read the service manual!! Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

05-29-2008, 02:29 PM	#5
turbo chicken Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 75	check page 166 of the service manual there's a trouble shooting flow chart for "battery runs down quickly" check page 172 for "starter motor will not run" flow chart i need to download the manual to my laptop at home so i can take it to the bike with me... Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

05-30-2008, 11:57 AM	#9
mrlmd1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Crawfordville, Florida Posts: 2,853	battery issues Got me ER - wrong spelling (idle). Didn't spell check, proof read, etc,etc. Didn't write the voltage because I thought that would be common knowledge from being around a while, owning cars, etc. Good point that the voltage should be checked with a fairly good at least partially charged, rather than a totally dead battery. He could have gotten a bad battery with the bike, where it may start up once after being "fully" charged on a charger, but not start up again, even after a ride on the bike. As you and others have said, and from personal experience going through 3 batteries from the dealer, the charging system on this bike will not be sufficient to bring a bad battery up to full capacity - you need to put in on a charger overnight to get enough juice in it for the one start. I don't think the dealer would have sold a bike with a defective charging system either, and I don't think it's too common for these things to fail. I'd lay odds on the battery, get a new one and put it on a charger overnight before use and bet the problem is solved. Just my 2 or 3 cents worth.
	0

05-29-2008, 01:21 PM	#2
jonathan180iq Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dalton, GA Posts: 3,996	There have been some recent conversations about generators, alternators and magnetos. While I don't remember which is which, there is definately a charging system on this bike. Based on what you mentioned, your problem might lie in the charging system itself. If your battery had enough juice to crank the bike and then you took it around the block, the battery should have been recharged while riding. I mean, if the bike shop charged the battery and it remained charged long enough to sit around and then crank the bike, I would think that the battery would be in decent shape. Like I said, the fact that it wouldn't recharge while riding would concern me. That being said, I'll be the first one to tell you that I'm not electrical expert. So, other opinions are more than welcome.
	0

05-29-2008, 02:24 PM	#4
jonathan180iq Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dalton, GA Posts: 3,996	That's true. All autoparts stores around here offer free battery testing. Just take it in and get a quick answer.
	0

05-29-2008, 06:41 PM	#7
mrlmd1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Crawfordville, Florida Posts: 2,853	I went through this before - It must be mentioned that ALL new batteries must be FULLY charged before use, not put into service right after, or 2 hours after, the dealer fills them with acid and you leave the store. If they are not fully charged up first, they will be shot the first or second time they are used to start the engine, and they will not hold a charge after that. I went through 3 new batteries from a battery store because the dealer or counter guy didn't know that. Read the directions included with the batteries, especially the sealed ones. Your problem is most likely the battery and not the bike. It's very easy to check the charging systems, just measure the voltage at the battery with the bike at a few thousand rpm, above ideal speed.
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