Another New Big Bike?

Sarris · 09-23-2010, 08:27 AM

So, alanmcorcoran, another big bike in your future? I saw your other post and am interested in the details.

Is a Harley in your future? Or......a sportbike?

Give us the scoop-de-poop.

:rawk:

alanmcorcoran · 09-23-2010, 10:13 AM

Should have been clearer: Bigger than the Geezer. I think I'd like to try riding (slightly) off-road. (Unpaved but not too gnarly "fire roads") and I'm thinking about something along the lines of a KTM (adventure? Not up to speed on the model names - saw a couple on the first day of my "big ride" a month ago.)

Haven't got too far into the details yet. Been too busy in Chicago and traveling/riding to do any shopping. I'm thinking about riding Death Valley next weekend but I will probably take the Strat for that. I think there is a KTM dealer in Fullerton which is 20 minutes from my house.

The adventure bikes remind me a little of "hybrid" bicycles - they aren't they great on the road and they aren't that great on the dirt either. So the challenge is to get something you are not too unhappy with. I think.

I'm up for suggestions, encouragment and discouragement, as I know next to nothing about this sort of thing and there are so many bikes and options to consider.

dhgeyer · 09-23-2010, 11:19 AM

KTM makes such bikes, but they are not the biggest players, and I don't know much about them. Not popular around here, and I don't think I've ever seen one.

The big players in the "Dual Sport" or "Adventure" field are Kawasaki (KLR650) and BMW (G650GS, F650GS and F800GS). BMW also makes the R1200GS, but I think it's too big and heavy for real off road stuff. It makes a better sport touring bike. The lighter BMW models are made in China now. They had some trouble with the chain drives early on, but that seems to be straightened out now. The F650GS and F800GS are both 800cc vertical twins (despite the former's model name). The G650GS is a 650cc thumper with a counterbalancer, so it's not too bad. The KLR650 is also a 650 thumper, and has a reputation for really thumping, but it's a lot cheaper than a Bring More Wampum. The BMW's have available rugged luggage. Most KLR riders improvise with ammo cans and such.

Can't recommend BMW as a brand, as they don't treat customers, or dealers for that matter, very well. The dealers are some of the best around, but they can't always help if there's a "situation". Kawasaki is much better as a brand in that respect.

Any of these machines will get you out back of beyond and back, but not in anything like the comfort you are used to. Seats are high and fairly narrow, lots of ground clearance, skid plates standard or available, good range, semi aggressive tires, but everything needed to be street legal and safe.

The Suzuki DL650 "Weestrom", like WW has, can be modified to do what you want up to a point. It doesn't have as much ground clearance though, and isn't really made for the purpose. Probably more comfortable for long hauls than the KLR. The Beemers are not bad comfort wise, but none of these bikes are a Strat.

frempath · 09-24-2010, 06:57 PM

I think Yamaha and Triumph are importing a couple of new or new to north america adventure bikes to.

frempath

alanmcorcoran · 09-25-2010, 03:45 PM

I've done a little more Googling and the two KTM models that caught my interest are the Adventure 990 and the 990 R. The R seems to have a little more horsepower and perhaps an upgraded suspension, but I'm not 100% sure of the differences. They fall weight-wise in between the Geezer and the Strat - about 470 pounds IIRC. On the forums, I have heard a good phrase for trying to separate out some of these bikes: "Do you want a mostly dirt bike that is legal to take on the street for a while or do you want a bike where you are gonna ride 100-150 miles on the highway to get to 20 miles on the dirt." I definitely fall into the latter category. I also am not a seasoned dirt rider and will probably limit myself to literally dirt roads, rather than mud, sand, off road, etc. So, I want to get something that I can ride 150 miles without getting a giant blister on my ass, but I could pick up easily if I skidded out on a fire road that might lead to a more secluded campsite. Two of the competing bikes mentioned a lot are the BMW F800GS and the BMW1200 GS so I'm gonna Google up a bit on that. I get the sense that the BMW1200GS is probably best suited for me - heavier, more suited to longer distances, but can still handle fire roads. But I like the panniers and the design (and the idea) of the KTM better. But I think it's not really suitable for a 150 mile ride.

Your thoughts welcome...

patrick_777 · 09-26-2010, 12:54 AM

Alan, I personally know four people who are diehard KLR650 owners and live by them. I also have ridden one several time and they aren't bad at all. Read over a lot of the forums at ADV and gather some more opinions...

Be warned though, if you start reading some of the ride report threads, you could still reading hours later without noticing.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/

dhgeyer · 09-26-2010, 09:42 AM

BMW R1200GS wet weight with fuel: 564 lb.

BMW F800GS wet weight with fuel: 455 lb.

Kawa KLR 650 curb weight (I assume they mean ready to ride): 432 lb.

KTM 990 dry weight (no fluids no battery no fue)l: 461 lb.

None of these weights include any luggage.

I've never tried, but from the look of them I doubt I could pick an R1200GS up from the ground, especially loaded for travel. I've never ridden the KLR, but the weight seems about right, and, typical of Kawasaki's business plan, they've made it virtually unchanged since Christ was a corporal. Bulletproof. It has a reputation for vibration, being a 650 single. I have ridden a BMW F800GS, and would not hesitate, comfort wise, to ride it on the highway for long distances or off road. It's an 800 CC twin, and quite smooth with a decent saddle and very good riding position. It has good electronics also - lots of display information. Having to deal with BMW is a disadvantage. I have ridden an R1200GS as a loaner for a hundred miles or so. It's a great touring bike, but I wouldn't take it off road on a bet unless I had someone with me to help pick it up if I dropped it. Don't know anything about the KTM except that you might want to check out how many dealerships there are and where they are if you plan to go far from home. Kawasaki has a good dealership network, and is a good company to deal with. BMW dealerships are not as common, but they're very aggressively opening more of them.

If it were me, I'd test ride a KLR, a KTM, and an F800GS and choose between those. You can read all you want, but you don't really know anything about how you're going to react to a bike until you get on it.

alanmcorcoran · 09-26-2010, 11:31 AM

Appreciate the feedback. Keep in mind I am currently touring solo on a (loaded) bike I can't pick up even when it's unloaded. So my current plan has been - never, ever, put the bike down, which is obviously a bad plan. Patrick, much of my info on the KTM vs BMW comes from advrider forum, (4 pages of thread on the 990 FI mapping from 2006-2008, f'rinstance). A also saw a home made video on Youtube with two guys from Scotland riding a R1200GS and a KTM 990 in the winter. It appeared they dumped both bikes at least once. The video was only 5 minutes long and kinda general - no clear winner - probably got the bikes from the manufacturers and didn't want to piss either one off. There's an Irv Seaver BMW dealer in Orange and a KTM dealer in Orange - both of which are about 30 mins from my house. Most of the places I'm touring have very long stretches with no dealers on any stripe - and not much of anything else either (like gas and water and toilets and stuff.) Not sure about the likelihood I'll get to test ride one of these bikes unless I go to some manufacturer event with a million other people - which I won't do - but I haven't actually checked this out yet. When I was shopping for the Geezer and the Strat you could sit on one, but that's it. There was a lightweight BMW I could rent at the rental place here in chicago, but it looked like a Geezer with an off-road suspension. I could probably rent a 1200cc Beemer in CA, but it'd cost upwards of $200 a day and for a 4 or 5 day ride, it'd be expensive research. But it might still be worth it. I agree with dh, you can read all you want, but it's not the same as actually riding.

dhgeyer · 09-26-2010, 12:48 PM

I'd call the local dealers and see if test rides are available. There are two BMW dealerships in NH. One will allow test rides on used bikes, the other will do that and also keeps a small fleet of demo bikes for that purpose. If you go there you can also get a feel for the general attitude of the place, what kind of support and service you can expect, and so on. My semi educated guess is that, if you rode the F800GS, you would be pretty well sold on it. But, since BMW is such a crappy company to deal with, the dealership becomes very important, as they can do a lot to take up the slack if there are any issues.

mrlmd1 · 09-26-2010, 02:16 PM

Being such a high end motor company with an image and reputation to uphold and all that, why is BMW as a company so hard to deal with? Is it just for their motorcycles? I've had 3 different BMW cars years ago and always had great support from the dealer, and I assumed that was for the company as a whole. Has the company support for it's customers and warranties changed, or has the economy changed their attitude?

09-23-2010, 08:27 AM	#1
Sarris Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: New Port Richey, Florida USA Posts: 1,348	Another New Big Bike? So, alanmcorcoran, another big bike in your future? I saw your other post and am interested in the details. Is a Harley in your future? Or......a sportbike? Give us the scoop-de-poop. :rawk: __________________ Prudent riders live longer than moron riders. Login or Register to Remove Ads
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09-23-2010, 10:13 AM	#2
alanmcorcoran Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 2,926	Re: Another New Big Bike? Should have been clearer: Bigger than the Geezer. I think I'd like to try riding (slightly) off-road. (Unpaved but not too gnarly "fire roads") and I'm thinking about something along the lines of a KTM (adventure? Not up to speed on the model names - saw a couple on the first day of my "big ride" a month ago.) Haven't got too far into the details yet. Been too busy in Chicago and traveling/riding to do any shopping. I'm thinking about riding Death Valley next weekend but I will probably take the Strat for that. I think there is a KTM dealer in Fullerton which is 20 minutes from my house. The adventure bikes remind me a little of "hybrid" bicycles - they aren't they great on the road and they aren't that great on the dirt either. So the challenge is to get something you are not too unhappy with. I think. I'm up for suggestions, encouragment and discouragement, as I know next to nothing about this sort of thing and there are so many bikes and options to consider. __________________ [hr:5yt6ldkq][/hr:5yt6ldkq] http://alanmarkcorcoran.com Motorcycles, Music, Musings and More…
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09-23-2010, 11:19 AM	#3
dhgeyer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merrimack NH USA Posts: 722	Re: Another New Big Bike? KTM makes such bikes, but they are not the biggest players, and I don't know much about them. Not popular around here, and I don't think I've ever seen one. The big players in the "Dual Sport" or "Adventure" field are Kawasaki (KLR650) and BMW (G650GS, F650GS and F800GS). BMW also makes the R1200GS, but I think it's too big and heavy for real off road stuff. It makes a better sport touring bike. The lighter BMW models are made in China now. They had some trouble with the chain drives early on, but that seems to be straightened out now. The F650GS and F800GS are both 800cc vertical twins (despite the former's model name). The G650GS is a 650cc thumper with a counterbalancer, so it's not too bad. The KLR650 is also a 650 thumper, and has a reputation for really thumping, but it's a lot cheaper than a Bring More Wampum. The BMW's have available rugged luggage. Most KLR riders improvise with ammo cans and such. Can't recommend BMW as a brand, as they don't treat customers, or dealers for that matter, very well. The dealers are some of the best around, but they can't always help if there's a "situation". Kawasaki is much better as a brand in that respect. Any of these machines will get you out back of beyond and back, but not in anything like the comfort you are used to. Seats are high and fairly narrow, lots of ground clearance, skid plates standard or available, good range, semi aggressive tires, but everything needed to be street legal and safe. The Suzuki DL650 "Weestrom", like WW has, can be modified to do what you want up to a point. It doesn't have as much ground clearance though, and isn't really made for the purpose. Probably more comfortable for long hauls than the KLR. The Beemers are not bad comfort wise, but none of these bikes are a Strat. __________________ 54 HD Hummer,64 Honda150,66 Ducati250,01 Vulcan500,02 Vulcan1500,83 Nighthawk650,91 K75,95 VLX,04 VLX,01 GS500E,01 Ninja250, 02 Rebel,04 Ninja500,06 Concours,96 R850R Login or Register to Remove Ads
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09-24-2010, 06:57 PM	#4
frempath Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bradenton, FL Posts: 40	Re: Another New Big Bike? I think Yamaha and Triumph are importing a couple of new or new to north america adventure bikes to. frempath __________________ frempath The older boy's GZ250 for about town. Previous: XJ 650 GS 450L XJ 650 XS 650 TS 185 ATC 90
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09-25-2010, 03:45 PM	#5
alanmcorcoran Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 2,926	Re: Another New Big Bike? I've done a little more Googling and the two KTM models that caught my interest are the Adventure 990 and the 990 R. The R seems to have a little more horsepower and perhaps an upgraded suspension, but I'm not 100% sure of the differences. They fall weight-wise in between the Geezer and the Strat - about 470 pounds IIRC. On the forums, I have heard a good phrase for trying to separate out some of these bikes: "Do you want a mostly dirt bike that is legal to take on the street for a while or do you want a bike where you are gonna ride 100-150 miles on the highway to get to 20 miles on the dirt." I definitely fall into the latter category. I also am not a seasoned dirt rider and will probably limit myself to literally dirt roads, rather than mud, sand, off road, etc. So, I want to get something that I can ride 150 miles without getting a giant blister on my ass, but I could pick up easily if I skidded out on a fire road that might lead to a more secluded campsite. Two of the competing bikes mentioned a lot are the BMW F800GS and the BMW1200 GS so I'm gonna Google up a bit on that. I get the sense that the BMW1200GS is probably best suited for me - heavier, more suited to longer distances, but can still handle fire roads. But I like the panniers and the design (and the idea) of the KTM better. But I think it's not really suitable for a 150 mile ride. Your thoughts welcome... __________________ [hr:5yt6ldkq][/hr:5yt6ldkq] http://alanmarkcorcoran.com Motorcycles, Music, Musings and More… Login or Register to Remove Ads
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09-26-2010, 12:54 AM	#6
patrick_777 Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,763	Re: Another New Big Bike? Alan, I personally know four people who are diehard KLR650 owners and live by them. I also have ridden one several time and they aren't bad at all. Read over a lot of the forums at ADV and gather some more opinions... Be warned though, if you start reading some of the ride report threads, you could still reading hours later without noticing. http://www.advrider.com/forums/ __________________ ]I am hiding in Honduras. I am a desperate man. Send lawyers, guns and money. The shit has hit the fan.
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09-26-2010, 09:42 AM	#7
dhgeyer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merrimack NH USA Posts: 722	Re: Another New Big Bike? BMW R1200GS wet weight with fuel: 564 lb. BMW F800GS wet weight with fuel: 455 lb. Kawa KLR 650 curb weight (I assume they mean ready to ride): 432 lb. KTM 990 dry weight (no fluids no battery no fue)l: 461 lb. None of these weights include any luggage. I've never tried, but from the look of them I doubt I could pick an R1200GS up from the ground, especially loaded for travel. I've never ridden the KLR, but the weight seems about right, and, typical of Kawasaki's business plan, they've made it virtually unchanged since Christ was a corporal. Bulletproof. It has a reputation for vibration, being a 650 single. I have ridden a BMW F800GS, and would not hesitate, comfort wise, to ride it on the highway for long distances or off road. It's an 800 CC twin, and quite smooth with a decent saddle and very good riding position. It has good electronics also - lots of display information. Having to deal with BMW is a disadvantage. I have ridden an R1200GS as a loaner for a hundred miles or so. It's a great touring bike, but I wouldn't take it off road on a bet unless I had someone with me to help pick it up if I dropped it. Don't know anything about the KTM except that you might want to check out how many dealerships there are and where they are if you plan to go far from home. Kawasaki has a good dealership network, and is a good company to deal with. BMW dealerships are not as common, but they're very aggressively opening more of them. If it were me, I'd test ride a KLR, a KTM, and an F800GS and choose between those. You can read all you want, but you don't really know anything about how you're going to react to a bike until you get on it. __________________ 54 HD Hummer,64 Honda150,66 Ducati250,01 Vulcan500,02 Vulcan1500,83 Nighthawk650,91 K75,95 VLX,04 VLX,01 GS500E,01 Ninja250, 02 Rebel,04 Ninja500,06 Concours,96 R850R
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09-26-2010, 11:31 AM	#8
alanmcorcoran Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 2,926	Re: Another New Big Bike? Appreciate the feedback. Keep in mind I am currently touring solo on a (loaded) bike I can't pick up even when it's unloaded. So my current plan has been - never, ever, put the bike down, which is obviously a bad plan. Patrick, much of my info on the KTM vs BMW comes from advrider forum, (4 pages of thread on the 990 FI mapping from 2006-2008, f'rinstance). A also saw a home made video on Youtube with two guys from Scotland riding a R1200GS and a KTM 990 in the winter. It appeared they dumped both bikes at least once. The video was only 5 minutes long and kinda general - no clear winner - probably got the bikes from the manufacturers and didn't want to piss either one off. There's an Irv Seaver BMW dealer in Orange and a KTM dealer in Orange - both of which are about 30 mins from my house. Most of the places I'm touring have very long stretches with no dealers on any stripe - and not much of anything else either (like gas and water and toilets and stuff.) Not sure about the likelihood I'll get to test ride one of these bikes unless I go to some manufacturer event with a million other people - which I won't do - but I haven't actually checked this out yet. When I was shopping for the Geezer and the Strat you could sit on one, but that's it. There was a lightweight BMW I could rent at the rental place here in chicago, but it looked like a Geezer with an off-road suspension. I could probably rent a 1200cc Beemer in CA, but it'd cost upwards of $200 a day and for a 4 or 5 day ride, it'd be expensive research. But it might still be worth it. I agree with dh, you can read all you want, but it's not the same as actually riding. __________________ [hr:5yt6ldkq][/hr:5yt6ldkq] http://alanmarkcorcoran.com Motorcycles, Music, Musings and More…
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09-26-2010, 12:48 PM	#9
dhgeyer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merrimack NH USA Posts: 722	Re: Another New Big Bike? I'd call the local dealers and see if test rides are available. There are two BMW dealerships in NH. One will allow test rides on used bikes, the other will do that and also keeps a small fleet of demo bikes for that purpose. If you go there you can also get a feel for the general attitude of the place, what kind of support and service you can expect, and so on. My semi educated guess is that, if you rode the F800GS, you would be pretty well sold on it. But, since BMW is such a crappy company to deal with, the dealership becomes very important, as they can do a lot to take up the slack if there are any issues. __________________ 54 HD Hummer,64 Honda150,66 Ducati250,01 Vulcan500,02 Vulcan1500,83 Nighthawk650,91 K75,95 VLX,04 VLX,01 GS500E,01 Ninja250, 02 Rebel,04 Ninja500,06 Concours,96 R850R
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09-26-2010, 02:16 PM	#10
mrlmd1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Crawfordville, Florida Posts: 2,853	Re: Another New Big Bike? Being such a high end motor company with an image and reputation to uphold and all that, why is BMW as a company so hard to deal with? Is it just for their motorcycles? I've had 3 different BMW cars years ago and always had great support from the dealer, and I assumed that was for the company as a whole. Has the company support for it's customers and warranties changed, or has the economy changed their attitude?
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