Yes, alantf, the air really is bad in Los Angeles...

[alanmcorcoran]

I wanted to at least pay a little respect to Patrick's etiquette, so I moved the air pollution discussion over here.

Fewer places on earth have as many restrictions on air quality related activities than the Los Angeles basin. Everyone knows we have extra stuff on our cars. You may not know that:

1) we have specially formulated gas.
2) We cannot burn anything outdoors.
3) We have little hoodies on the gas pumps to capture the evaporation.
4) ALL cars have to have their emissions checked every two years or you can't register, insure or drive them.
5) There are rules for fireplaces, lawn mowers, cow shit, asphalt paving, dry cleaning, and much much more.

It's pretty overbearing, but, for the most part, if the AQMD wants it, and they prove that it will reduce air pollution, they get it. And, guess what? Except for the polluters targeted, most people are quite happy with the AQMD. Why?

Because the air IS polluted! But it's a lot less polluted now than it used to be (in the seventies), even though there are a lot more people here now than there were then.

You mention that they monitor the air quality in Tenerife and it's "fine." Well, they monitor it here too. Somedays it is breathable, but many days it is definitely NOT FINE and it is recommended one stay indoors (and try not to breath too much.)

It's nice to have them monitoring it, but, the monitoring is only necessary if you want some scientific precision. When the air is bad, you can plainly SEE it. And FEEL it. The mountains disappear first. Then they are replaced by a reddish brown haze that is plainly visible with the naked eye. And, if you are looking at it with your naked eye, your naked eyes are likely burning. And so are your lungs if you are working outdoors.

I am not familiar with the geography of tenerife, but you said it's an island. More than likely, all the shitty air you are generating is blowing away from the island to somewhere else, where it becomes their problem. In the LA basin, we are surrounded by relatively high mountains on three sides and, in the summer in particular, there is no place for the crap to blow to, so it just sits right above our heads.

So please, do not dismiss the efforts of the "homo vegetarians" (actually, I'm guessing that the AQMD is mostly red meat eating, straight [possibly virgin] nerds, but that's another discussion) to keep Southern California air breathable. Air pollution is real, it sucks and there are effective things one can do to fix it, or at least reduce it.

When the rest of the world is choking on its own farts you will thank us (or the homos) for spending the time and money to develop and support cleaner ways of doing things.

I have a neighbor who used to travel to Beijing and Shanghai on a regular basis; he said when he returned to his hotel room at night after a day of being around town, he would take off his sportcoat and the part of his shirt that was exposed was a smudged grey, the part unexposed was its usual white. Now imagine all that sh** in your lungs; now imagine your lungs after 50 years of breathing in that sh**.

I saw a doctor on TV once (I think it was on "Oprah", but don't tell anyone that) who brought lungs and other internal organs from dead people to show people what "normal" and "abnormal" looked like. He showed a non-smoker's lung who lived in a rural area. Then he held up a non-smoker's lung who lived in a major American city and contrasted them. The guy who lived in the city looked like he smoked a pack of cigarettes a day - black and stained beyond belief. Not sure why they'd be homos, but I'm glad someone's trying to deal with it.

Keith

[alantf]

By the way, the name's Alan. The tf is the licence plate code for Tenerife. I use that as a computer name because every time I tried to use just alan the computer would tell me that it was taken. Same with my e-mail. My second name's maxfield, so I wanted to use madmax, but it wouldn't let me, so I use madmaxtf.

As for the "homo" thing, it's just that I was citing the things that the political animals are telling us we must accept, same as tree hugging, veggie, whale saving, black, lesbian. I'm not saying it's all bad, but I'm sick of having every nutter's crackpot ideas forced down my throat.

One of the craziest things in England is that you're not allowed to smoke in any public building, such as bars, restaurants, workplaces (even company cars, even if no one else ever gets in them) yet if you want to take drugs in the same premises the police will turn the other way.

As for the pollution problems you have, yes, I didn't realise they were so bad, but surely, if the emission controls that are in place are having such a small benificial effect, doesn't that show that they're wrong. If, after such drastic measures as you describe, there is still a problem, surely there must be someone who can come up with a solution. Moving slightly away for a moment, England had real problems in the 1950s with smog (SMoke/fOG) The problem was that most of the houses had coal fires, & the smoke was polluting the atmosphere so much that we called them "pea soup" because it was so thick you could nearly cut it. The solution was to force all the coal merchants to sell only smokeless fuel. The problem was solved at a stroke. I know (think!) that this is not the problem in your area, but if it's as bad as you make out, surely someone can come up with a better idea than, for example, cannisters on bikes that can make only the most minute difference.

[alanmcorcoran]

Dude, you gotta take some more care with your metaphors. Did you intend to suggest that homosexuality was "being forced down your throat"?! (Okay, I'm just fucking with you.)

I personally don't know if the canister thing works or not, and I don't know what the impact of it on the running of the engine is. The point I was trying to make is that not all tree-huggery is bullshit. I'm not gay, I eat meat (although no whale so far) but I don't have a problem with homos or vegetarians. I think you should be able to drug yourself, smoke yourself and, frankly kill yourself as long as you aren't bothering anyone else, so I think we mainly agree. I'm an ex-smoker and my wife still smokes. I'd probably still smoke weed too if it was legalized. (By the way, OUR tree huggers are in favor of legalizing weed, so... hmmmm.)

Yes there is still an issue in LA and there probably always will be, but a lot of progress has been made. Google it a bit and you'll see I'm not crazy.

[Moedad]

As a person who played outside in the Los Angeles Basin during the 60s and 70s, bicycled thousands and thousands of miles during the 80s and 90s, and who still goes outside once in a while, I can unequivocably say that the air quality in the LA Basin, while still unhealthy at times (especially depending on where you're at), has greatly improved.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by alantf

As for the pollution problems you have, yes, I didn't realise they were so bad, but surely, if the emission controls that are in place are having such a small benificial effect, doesn't that show that they're wrong.

Listen "friend", you almost stopped this discussion once and now I STRONGLY suggest that you do so before you piss off others besides just ME.

You just don't get it. The LA area is somewhat unique, as US-Alan tried to expain to you but apparently you weren't paying attention. The geographic features of the area TRAPS the airborne pollutants and they accumulate. Besides that, it strikes me as a pretty absurd view to, in effect, say that if you can't completely eliminate a problem then you shouldn't even try to make it better.

The plain truth of the matter is that I see most of the ideas you put forth on this subject as just plain stupid. This planet has, what, 6 billion people. If each one of them produces just a teeny, tiny bit of polution......when you mulitlply it by 6 billion, it ends up being a significant amount.

In most things, before you can walk, you must first crawl. The story you told about London is unique and can't be used as a pattern anywhere else.......although all the steel mills in the north eastern US all going out of business had about the same affect. In most places around the world, there is NOT a single solution and you MUST attack a multitude of causes, hopefully the worst ones first.

Your simplistic view of dealing with problems on a global scale would be refreshing........if it had any basis in fact. Unfortunately it doesn't.

[patrick_777]

Originally Posted by alanmcorcoran

I wanted to at least pay a little respect to Patrick's etiquette, so I moved the air pollution discussion over here.

Thank you!

:popcorn: :twisted:

[alantf]

Hey, easy,
To me you're just a "grumpy old man". You just seem to me that if anyone has a different opinion to you, you just can't stand it! Other people, especially newbies, have said that they won't come on this forum again because of your attitude. I can totally agree with their point of view. Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but you still think that you're the only one that knows anything. I've only been on this forum for a few months, but to me you're the rotten apple that spoils the barrelful. I won't say anything behind anyone's back that I won't say to their face, so I'm saying to you what EVERYONE is thinking, but won't say because of politeness, "get rid of the attitude & learn to be human", I've not heard you say ANYTHING nice to anyone. What's your problem man? You're not God, even if you think you are. Sorry, to everyone else, but this guy is getting to me big style. Everyone else can have a difference of opinion, & it still ends up amicably, but this guy is something else! What's happened in your life that you have to be so nasty? If you have a problem, spit it out, let us try to help you. That's what we're here for. Don't bottle it up. Nobody wants what you're spitting out all the time. Remember "he's my brother, he aint heavy"

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by alantf

Hey, easy,
To me you're just a "grumpy old man".

You finally got something exactly right. Congratulations.

Just because you can't take honest criticism gracefully doesn't mean I will stop offering it.
You are the one who started the "discussion" and now that you are getting your ass kicked, you resort to whinning and crying. Grow up.

I quite assure you that not EVERYBODY here agrees with you.

[Moedad]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

I quite assure you that not EVERYBODY here agrees with you.

Yeah. You're not THAT old.