in connection front brake lever problem - Now screwed up

[GZ250]

I am writing a new post so that who have replied can help again otherwise they might not read in the previous post.

I tried to follow the manual to change the brake fluid. First I removed the cover and the diaphragm. Manual says to suck up the fluid as much as possible. I sucked up everything. Not a single drop left and added the new fluid. Then I connected the hose to the receptacle and on loosening the valve and pressing the brake lever on few drops came out of the receptacle. The manual says that pump the brake lever until the old fluid is completely out.Once the lever was ressed it was so loose that it did not push more fluid. Then I tried to follow the bleeding thing, tightening the valve, pressing the lever and loosing again but nothing helped. I also did one thing and I am not sure if that caused any problem. Under the brake caliper there is another rubber thing. I tried to pull that out but it did not come out so I left that or pushed it back.

Now the status is that the level is completely free without any pressure meaning front brakes not working. And that rubber boot on the brake lever is totally collapsed, obviously there is no oil pressure. :cuss:
Thanks

[dannylightning]

you sure it is full and you bled it enough..

is there any fluid leaking out of the caliper area, did you close the bleeder valve completely. i don't know what the rubber thing you tried to pull off is, it is possible that was a bad move but i don't really know i have not had my calipers off my gz yet so i don't know exactly how they are set up and what all rubber things are on there.


form the sound of it you probably have a leak or a master cylinder problem.

you did not take the calipers off of the bike and and pull the break lever before you put them back on did you????


look up section 5-10 in the service manual.. it shows how the calipers come apart and go to geather, not sure if that will be any help but you may be able to figure out what it was you tried to pull out of there.

[GZ250]

No fluid leak from anywhere. Brake was working perfectly ok. When i changed the brake pads (i did it second time) i did not press the level until i put the assembly back and then i pressed the lever and brake was working fine except the same issue that i mentioed in th e other post.

In the attached picture (taken from the manual) I have put an arrrow on that rubber thing. During fluid change I did not remove or touch the caliper. As i said, first removed the fluid from the resirvoir, added new fluid, loosen the valve, pressed the lever but just drops came out. Lever lost all pressure.

Tomorrow morning I will remove the assembly and take a look at the brake shoes if they stuck or otherwise I am thinking that there is some blockage in the hose that connects brake fluid reservoir and the caliper assembly. Is this a possibility?

[Water Warrior 2]

Hmm. So why would there suddenly be a blockage where none existed before ? Seems to me that if there was a blockage you would have pressure at the lever when you squeeze it. I can only suggest bleeding the brakes again and being very careful.

[alantf]

Might I suggest that next time you bleed the brakes, you get an old (CLEAN) jam jar (I think you call it jelly in America?), half fill it with fresh brake fluid, & make sure that the bleeding tube you use is below the top of this fluid. This way, you can see when air is coming out of the pipe, & also, if anything is sucked back up the pipe, inadvertantly, it will be brake fluid, not air.

I'm assuming that you DID remove the rubber dust cover from the bleeding valve, & attach a rubber pipe (tight fit!) God alone knows what that other pipe is! (see my next post !!!!!!)

The correct way is :-
At all times, make sure that there is visible fluid in the reservoir!
1) connect pipe to bleeding valve, & make sure it's under the brake fluid in the jar. (sit the jar on the ground)
2) with a spanner (wrench?) loosen the bleeder valve.
3) squeeze the brake lever.
4) WITHOUT RELEASING THE BRAKE LEVER tighten the bleeding valve
5) now you can release the brake lever
6) check that there is fluid in the reservoir.
7) repeat steps 1) to 6), watching the jar every time (you will have to repeat it several times) until you don't see air bubbles coming out.

This means that there is only fluid, not air, in the system. This is why you use a jar - you can see when the system is air free.

Finally, top up the reservoir to the correct level & replace the lid. Need I tell you that it is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL that you don't let ANY dirt or moisture (i.e. don't do it in the rain) get into the reservoir? Also, you might find it helpful to have an assistant, as it is nigh on impossible to hold the brake lever, check for air bubbles in the jar, & tighten/loosen the bleeding valve, on your own.

I think that, given these few tips, you should be able to get your front brake working successfully.

[alantf]

I've just had another look at the photo, & I've realised that I was looking at the two arrows with the numbers on, not your red arrow. Silly me! The thing you're pointing to is the rubber covered speedo drive cable. (nothing whatsoever to do with the brakes!)

If you come across anything like this in the future, one (simple) way to find out what a pipe/cable does, is to start at one end & follow the tube with either your hand or your eye, until you find where the other end goes - in this case it starts at the wheel & ends up at the speedo.

[dannylightning]

Originally Posted by alantf

Might I suggest that next time you bleed the brakes, you get an old (CLEAN) jam jar (I think you call it jelly in America?), half fill it with fresh brake fluid, & make sure that the bleeding tube you use is below the top of this fluid. This way, you can see when air is coming out of the pipe, & also, if anything is sucked back up the pipe, inadvertantly, it will be brake fluid, not air.

I'm assuming that you DID remove the rubber dust cover from the bleeding valve, & attach a rubber pipe (tight fit!) God alone knows what that other pipe is!

The correct way is :-
At all times, make sure that there is visible fluid in the reservoir!
1) connect pipe to bleeding valve, & make sure it's under the brake fluid in the jar. (sit the jar on the ground)
2) with a spanner (wrench?) loosen the bleeder valve.
3) squeeze the brake lever.
4) WITHOUT RELEASING THE BRAKE LEVER tighten the bleeding valve
5) now you can release the brake lever
6) check that there is fluid in the reservoir.
7) repeat steps 1) to 6), watching the jar every time (you will have to repeat it several times) until you don't see air bubbles coming out.

This means that there is only fluid, not air, in the system. This is why you use a jar - you can see when the system is air free.

Finally, top up the reservoir to the correct level & replace the lid. Need I tell you that it is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL that you don't let ANY dirt or moisture (i.e. don't do it in the rain) get into the reservoir? Also, you might find it helpful to have an assistant, as it is nigh on impossible to hold the brake lever, check for air bubbles in the jar, & tighten/loosen the bleeding valve, on your own.

I think that, given these few tips, you should be able to get your front brake working successfully.

excellent right up on the correct way to do it. i wold have never thought about the jar with fluid already in it.. when i was shown how to bleed breaks we just let it squirt out of the bleeder valve with no hose attached and held a container by the valve for it to squirt in to, than went by the feel of the breaks to decide if all the air was out..

[GZ250]

Thanks for the details. As danny mentioned my pipe (hose) that i attached to the bleeder valve was not tight as you have mentioned and i ended up without it and just cleaning the fluid with a tissue. i did use DOT 4 and removed the rubber cover thats why i removed old fluif and added fresh.

One mistake that i made when i read your post is in point 4. When i squeezed the brake lever I did release it or did not pay attention where it was (squeezed or released position) because it was so free without pressure that i thought makes no difference. now i will keep it squeezed while bleeding and release only when the valve is tight. and suggestion of using an assistant is a good one. it is really tricky while doing alone especially when bike is on side stand.

Will let you know what happens in next try, first i have to find a correct hose with the right diameter.
Thanks.

[dannylightning]

Originally Posted by GZ250

Thanks for the details. As danny mentioned my pipe (hose) that i attached to the bleeder valve was not tight as you have mentioned and i ended up without it and just cleaning the fluid with a tissue. i did use DOT 4 and removed the rubber cover thats why i removed old fluif and added fresh.

One mistake that i made when i read your post is in point 4. When i squeezed the brake lever I did release it or did not pay attention where it was (squeezed or released position) because it was so free without pressure that i thought makes no difference. now i will keep it squeezed while bleeding and release only when the valve is tight. and suggestion of using an assistant is a good one. it is really tricky while doing alone especially when bike is on side stand.

Will let you know what happens in next try, first i have to find a correct hose with the right diameter.
Thanks.

hopefully it works out for you and you just sucked up some air, im sure you get on the road again.

[GZ250]

so this morning (friday) i went out and my lever was so tight that i could hardly move that. the brake shoes were touching the plate. so i tried one more bleeding with the hose tightly connected to the bleeding valve. again each time tiny tiny fluid came out, No real pressure in the lever. anyway, what i did i removed the assembly and took out the new brake shoes and used the old ones again to make some space. i cleaned everything well, the inside has no leak and looks ok, i put back the brake shoes and the assembly back on the wheel. i moved the lever back and forth to develop pressure but it did not. i had to go to work so i left the bike at home and now when i go back i will see the status. i am thinking the pressure might develop again like yesterday but i have to see how the brake will function.

one thing that i noticed is after i put the caliper assembly back, it had a slight play, like no pressure in there. if can't figure out anything today, i will take it tomorrow to the shop.

Thank you all.