When to use the clutch...

[Rookie Rider]

I never held the brakes when turning a mountain bike or a ten speed bicycle, so im not going to do that with a motorcycle.

[geezer]

during your course as you were telln us in your last post, you didnt release the clutch, it woud have been silly to at those speeds, also you were coming to a stop not a roll to turn or a slow down and take off. dude read up, youtube and practice

[Rookie Rider]

I'll get it eventually, like i do everything else i try.

[geezer]

well your failing at taking pics of those wheels :whistle:

[Rookie Rider]

haha i took pics 2 days ago actually, i didnt forget. Gonna try to put em on now. I'll put them on the GZ pics page. lol

[Rookie Rider]

Go check em out in the GZ PICS page !!

[tulsawalk]

Originally Posted by Nightsbane

The single most mystifying thing about learning to ride a bike has been the clutch. I have driven a scooter for a while, and so I was leaps and bounds ahead of other riders in the MSF class in most tested areas while rolling, but when it came to shifting I was a slow learner having only driven a stick shift once or twice in my life.

I didn't get all of the info I needed in the class and so I will ask here, something I am sure I will be doing a lot the first couple weeks.

When is the proper time to use the clutch? I know gear changes use the clutch, and when coming to a stop. What I am confused about it if you should use the clutch when rolling off the throttle in a turn. I noticed on the training bike that rolling completely off the throttle and coasting and then rolling back on the throttle caused a little jerky jump at first. Is this normal/supposed to happen or am I supposed to be using the clutch? I just need to know what to do before I get to higher speeds. I want to make sure there isn't something I will do to make it jump out of my control when rolling on the throttle while driving.

Thanks for your time.

Nightsbane,

You have gotten some good advice (as far as it went) and some bad remarks. I am a MSF coach, recently joined this forum for maintenance answers on my GZ250s we use in class.

First of all, do yourself a favor and take another class. The questions you are asking are covered (or should be) specifically in the course.

NO, do not pull in your clutch or coast through a corner. While it may work if you are going slow enough, it is most certainly not the correct method to use.

A motorcycles suspension must be loaded, or have some pressure on it, to work properly. The technique we teach is called Slow, Look, Press and Roll. I'll break down the steps for you.

Slow to a suitable entry speed. A suitable entry speed has several definitions: A speed slow enough to safely negotiate the turn. A speed slow enough to allow throttle roll on (or acceleration) throughout the turn. I also like to apply the rule to never travel faster than you can stop in the distance you can see.

So, what does it mean to roll on the throttle. Two part answer, the initial roll on is to take the slack out of the throttle and match throttle setting to the speed you are traveling. In other words a neutral or slightly accelerating state. Then, as you come off of apex (top center of the turn) begin to apply more throttle to finish off the turn.

The look process has multiple parts as well. The initial look should take place prior to corner entry, checking the road surface for debris, pot holes etc. then immediately look as far through the turn as you can to identify your line through the corner. Continue to track your gaze as far through the corner as possible until you can see the exit. Once you have picked your exit point lift your eyes down the road on the line you complete your track.

WHERE YOU LOOK IS WHERE YOU GO EVERY TIME!!!

Press means to press the handlebar grip in the direction you want to go. This is called counter steering. The press is out, not down on the grip. If you are turning right, press on the right grip. This initiates motorcycle lean which a motorcycle must do to turn when traveling faster than 10 mph. Below that speed we turn our bars in the direction we want to go. If you are not turning enough or are going wide in the turn, press more. Do not let off the throttle or apply the brakes. This of course assumes you did not enter the corner at an insanely too high of speed to begin with.

Roll means to roll on the throttle to take up the slack and stabilize the suspension, then to increase speed as you come off of apex.

I like to stabilize the throttle right after the slow process just before I press into the turn at corner entry. The key is to get all of your slow done with both brakes, without squeezing the clutch (unless you are downshifting to a slower speed) and off the brakes PRIOR to initiating your turn.

There are other techniques for cornering which are more advanced and NOT to be explored until you master SLPR.

Remember to not look down or at the sides of the road or lines (you will go where you look) and keep your eyes moving and looking as far through the turn as you can. Use your peripheral vision to keep track of where you are in the lane.

Hope this helps.

[Rookie Rider]

I thank you for takin the time to write this. I did learn SLPR in the class. Im getting the hang of it now, much better then i was. Thanks again.

[Water Warrior 2]

Tulsawalk, beautifully written. A fine explaination of how to do it right. My compliments to you.

[jonathan180iq]

I guess I've totally overlooked this topic.

In auto racing, we call it "pouring glue".
Everytime you get on the gas, you are pouring glue out of your rear tires. Without glue, you have no traction. If you aren't pouring glue in a turn, your back end will break free and you'll loose the line and possibly spin off the course. And while it is possible to give too much gas that you break your line as well, you have to be in gear and on the gas in the turn.



Approach turn
Downshift
Slight gas to enter
Medium gas after apex
Full throttle to exit and hit next straight (for racing anyway... simplify this for bikes)

Look at motorcycle riding the same way. What you are doing without being in gear and on the gas in a turn is incredibly dangerous. Like Tulsawalk mentioned, you have to have the suspenion loaded if you are going to be able to put outside pressure on your rear tire. Will it hold for basic left and right hand banks? Sure... But what if you suddenly have to change course in the middle of a turn in order to avoid some type of obstacle? Do you think that dropping into gear at that precise moment and then thumping the gas will correct your trajectory? It will not. At least it will not do so safely.



Let's say you are putting through life, mid-turn with the clutch pulled in. A dog suddenly decides that you are more interesting than the mailman. Startled, but thinking you're in control, you release the clutch lever, shifting your momentum forward onto the front wheel, as the bike tries to engage second gear. At the same time you punch the gas a little more than you should, because, let's be honest, dogs are scary. Your back wheel, which has had weight and momentum shifted off of it, tries to catch traction but it's not 100% and your tail moves towards the outside lane. At this point, the bike is leaning over farther than you are accustomed to so you try and fight it and lean up, trying to make the bike correct it's position. This actually pushes the bike down even further, digging your peg into the asphault, angling the rear wheel off the ground, and you low-side. The bike continues on its path into the outside lane and stops in the ditch on the other side of the road, warping your forks and pushing the front tire up into engine case. You slide and roll about 15 feet and are lucky that there wasn't a car behind you. Also lucky for you, you were wearing a full face helmet and an armored jacket with matching leather gloves so your worst injury is only the 3rd degree burn caused by road rash. It only takes the doctors 3 hours to remove the road grit from the surface of your salmon pink skin....

Don't you wish you had been in gear, slightly on the gas?

Even if you are talking about making a 90* turn in city from North St. to East St., you need to be in gear. 2nd gear will handle anything more than sitting still. If you are moving, you need to be in gear. Even if it's just idle speed approaching said turn, you need to be in gear.