If you knew then what you now know

[greatmaul]

Originally Posted by alantf

?????????? Over here there's no snell or dot. Everything from helmets to tea strainers has to have the CE mark, to show it's been manufactured to European Union standards. That means that every helmet, regardless of price has to be made to minimum standards. Of course, the higher priced ones may be different, but even the cheapest has to meet the required standard. Mine's an Airoh. You can't get them in America, because of the Snell/Dot thing, but they're still a good helmet, sold in all the EU countries, that appears to do its job efficiently.

Hi, yeah from what I've read there's a bit of a dust up between Snell and CE but the gist of it is that the CE standards are very good if not better than Snell, and their testing is even more rigorous. Apparently there are a lot of very highly regarded CE helmets, but we don't have access to them and as far as I know aren't even allowed to use them because they don't have the DOT sticker on them.

Frankly, I don't see why we can't slap a DOT sticker on them ourselves if we think they'd easily pass the testing. That's what the manufacturers do.

[Water Warrior 2]

[quote=Gz Rider]

Originally Posted by "Water Warrior":3l7u0fbn

Not exactly a fail in safety but what he said about different testing groups. It was quite wrong. Helmets can meet both DOT and Snell requirements and still be relatively moderate in price. Higher priced helmets are usually known for the material used in the shell for a light weight and the materials/padding inside for a more comfy fit. A better overall seal against rain and wind noise. The higher the price tag the better the material and hardware especially the shield seal and modular latches.
A really high dollar helmet such as the F1 drivers wear can be a $15000 touch but saves their head once and is likely tossed out. Their helmets have a newer unique interior padding material that cushions the driver's head very effectively.

While I'm not willing to spend 15,000 on a helmet, a 600 dollar helmet would not be a problem but no one has been able to give safety reasons to spend that amount.

I could not remember the snell rating- thank you. It seemed that the snell rating dictated the higher prices. When I asked why, the answers were vague. If I understand your position correctly, you are saying they do not have a difference in effectiveness with regard to a fall but the difference is more comfort. I do see that wind noise and maybe even rain leaks could be considered a safety issue but other than that would you agree with that statement?[/quote:3l7u0fbn]
I should have been a bit more clear in my wording. Got hoof in mouth disease here. Snell has stiffer testing but the DOT helmets still do a fine job. The dust up mentioned above between DOT and Snell ratings systems convinced me that a Snell helmet may not be the best choice. It does it's job too well. Snell approved helmets will usually cost more because of the verification from Snell but there are numerous Snell helmets that won't break the bank. I think you will find that high $ Snell approved helmets are top of the line in quality to begin with and the Snell sticker is just icing on the cake for riders wanting Snell ratings.
Been having senior moments lately so hope this clears thing up. Feel free to comment back.

[Gz Rider]

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[greatmaul]

Originally Posted by Gz Rider

For example, they say they drop their helmets from a higher height. Sounds good. I think we are lead to assume the helmet survives the impact better that the DOT's but do they actually state that? What determines pass/fail for either the DOT or Snell? I would like to see a standard testing system and a standard grading system.

ok, this is a lengthy and even more technical article, but extremely interesting and well written, by a motorcycling mag, about helmet testing and why maybe the lower DOT standards are good and why maybe the more rigorous Snell standards may have made helmets less safe.

It is followed up at the end by a retort from Snell that argues that their testing methods do, in fact, make helmets more, and not less, safe. In any case, it's very specific as to what testing is done, why, and what it means in the real world in terms of surviving crashes.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...OtKZRMbBZjaI9g

It's a google doc because every other place I've seen it posted on google, it doesn't seem to exist anymore. I wonder why that is?

[Water Warrior 2]

Good article about the helmet standards debate. Having read a few similar articles over the years has made me opt for a DOT standard rather than Snell. In the end it is up to the consumer and his $. Any helmet is better than no helmet.

[Gz Rider]

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[Gz Rider]

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[Gz Rider]

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[Water Warrior 2]

[quote=Gz Rider]

Originally Posted by "Gz Rider":1hfh6ws4

My plan is to look for an M2010 Snell helmet with the features I want. If for whatever reason, I can't find that, I'll pursue a regular DOT helmet with the feeling that I'm not giving up much on safety. I will not consider any M2005 helmets.

I bought my new helmet today. It is the scorpion EXO500 for $200.00.

One of the main reason I wanted a new helmet was for the drop down visor. I could not find one that had the M2010 rating from Snell. I thought that meant I had to drop to plain DOT standards. I realized there was a middle ground. I decided to get one that had ECE 22.05 and DOT certification. It looked to me like mosts of the M2010 standards were adjusted to meet ECE 22.05 standards so I feel happy with the ECE 22.05 label. One of the salesmen I spoke to even tried to tell me the ECE 22.05 label meant it was Snell certified. He got an earful. I think it was an honest mistake made by an uneducated saleman but the lesson is NEVER TRUST A SALESMAN![/quote:1hfh6ws4]
Never trust a salesman !! Many are just guessing and have never been taught to search for the truth. Lack of on the job training seems to be all too common in the moto industry. Thankfully we have the internet to fall back on and reach out for real facts and figures.
Personal observations by forum members are also good but can be a little tainted the odd time by the poster. He/she may not want to admit to a less then perfect purchase. This doesn't happen often and we seem to work that out with a few replies and questions. Still, it is all good.

[Gz Rider]

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