MPG trouble and B-12 chemtool info + MPG Tips?

[alantf]

Originally Posted by 5th_bike

You need a Moto Guzzi V7 Classic.

No I don't.
HATE the styling! (a purely personal thing - each to his own)
Don't like horizontally opposed cylinders. If the bike goes over, it's the most expensive repair bill you'll ever have!
Just read the road test - ".....two up with luggage, the engine will struggle, especially in hilly terrain ....) I live in the mountains :whistle:
and all this from a 744cc engine, which will make it WAY more expensive to insure than the 498cc Vulcan.
I can't see any advantages (again, a personal view) over the Vulcan, which seems to have better overall performance with a smaller engine.
The upside is that for anyone who does want one, the price is not that much more than the Vulcan. :popcorn:

[diffluere]

Buell also quit making the Blast this year. Now the smallest bike they make is a 998cc. Why?! What are all of us beginners/small people (I'm only 5'2) going to ride if they keep getting rid of all the smaller bikes?

[Water Warrior 2]

There are still a number of cruisers out there with a low enough seat but the price of entry is more than a GZ.

[Sarris]

HD Sportster 883. You can get them pretty low and they're fast as hell for a cruiser.

Also, Kamakazi makes the 500 LTD and Yamaha makes the V-Star 650. Both are very nice small bikes.


:2tup:

[alantf]

Originally Posted by Sarris

Kamakazi makes the 500 LTD

Not really ...... 2009 is the last year of manufacture in America, & 2008 was the last year in Europe. (I was trying to get hold of one)

[dhgeyer]

Back to the original topic for a minute. Speed makes a huge difference in gas mileage. The GZ is happiest (mileage wise) at or near the slowest speed at which the engine will operate efficiently in top gear (5th). Doing a lot of riding on back roads doing 40 to 50 is where you will see the highest gas mileage. Around town is good, but not as good. Good 2 lane highways at 50 to 55 mph will give very good, but not top, gas mileage. Out on the freeway the mileage will drop dramatically. For what I use the bike to do, I'm in the 75 to 85 mpg range, and that's one big reason I bought it. I'm not a tree hugger, but I do think that energy independence is a huge and very important goal for America. We own and drive nothing but Priuses (Prii?), and have 3 of them. It bothered me that my motorcycles didn't get as good gas mileage as our cars, so I got one that does, and I feel much better about riding it, where practical, than the bigger bikes.

Couple of anecdotal data points. A couple of years ago we owned two Ninjas, a 250 and a 500. The Ninja 250 redlines upwards of 13,000 rpm's, has dual carbs, both larger than the GZ, and is, of course a twin. So, even though the displacement is the same, it's a much faster and quicker bike. I had it up to an indicated 95 once, and it wasn't done. The Ninja 500 is very close to the same bike with a bigger engine. I've owned them both, and I still have to look twice to tell them apart. Anyway, I found that the 500 actually got better mileage on the freeway going 65 or more than the 250 did. The 250 was really working, while the 500 was not at those speeds. On the other hand, riding the 250 around town, or at 40 to 50 mph it got gas mileage close to what the GZ gets used in the same way. I say close, but not equal.

Bottom line is, wind resistance increases exponentially with speed. Each bike has a speed range at which it is most efficient, and will run best and longest. Small bikes are a blast, and I will not willingly part with mine. However, certain applications will be better served with something a bit bigger.

I personally think that a 500, or maybe a 650, is about as big as anyone really needs. In the last 7 years I've had bikes from 250 cc's up to 1500 (Vulcan). If I'm really honest, there isn't that much you can do on the real big machines that you couldn't do on a 500 Vulcan or Ninja. The 500 Vulcan and Ninja have the same engine by the way, with minor tweaks to the cams to give the Vulcan a little more mid range and the Ninja a stronger high end. The 500 Vulcan has about the most comfortable factory saddle I've ever tried. Lots of people do long distance touring on them. I've done 400 mile days on the Ninja 500, although I must admit my backside was pretty sore at the end. The Suzuki DL650 (V-Strom) is used extensively for touring and for adventure touring. It gives up very little to its 1000cc brother, the DL1000. Back in ""The Day", people rode all over the U.S.A. on bikes anywhere from 250's up. Honda's first "Touring" motorcycle was the 305 Dream, which came out in, (what?) the mid 60's I think.

The bigger bikes, particularly the sport touring rigs (1000 cc's and up), are definitely more comfortable for doing lots of freeway miles. But unless you're doing a lot of that all the time, big bikes are really just typical American conspicuous consumption, which is pretty strongly built into our culture, unfortunately. My opinions, of course. Others may disagree.

Good post, dhgeyer, and I suspect you won't find too many folks who disagree with your basic premise since this is a forum for people who own/owned a small bike, after all. It seems to me, albeit as a relatively new rider, that the biggest appeal of the really larger displacement bikes is the comfort they could offer on long distance touring, but as you suggest, how many folks really do that kind of thing? Not many, I suspect.

I recently moved up to a V Star 650 Custom, and I'm happy with it overall. Got it so that I could go on the highway if I needed to and didn't feel comfortable on the highway with the GZ, but I'm having a hard time seeing how I'd need a larger displacement bike. My ass hurts after 100 miles on the stock seat, but it's time for a break then anyway, right? I guess my question is, do the folks on the big displacement cruisers/tourers ride for 300 miles, etc. without a break (I don't even do that in my car)? If not, then the need for the huge displacement bike becomes even less comprehensible to me.

Keith

[music man]

Originally Posted by kmkindred

I guess my question is, do the folks on the big displacement cruisers/tourers ride for 300 miles, etc. without a break (I don't even do that in my car)?
Keith

I highly doubt that there are more than a handful of people that can say that they have ever rode 300 miles straight on a motorcycle without stopping, because first of all that is over 4 hours if you are hammerin' 70mph the whole way, plus (and here is the big reason) how many motorcycles can go 300 miles or more without running out of gas.

[dhgeyer]

Originally Posted by kmkindred

I guess my question is, do the folks on the big displacement cruisers/tourers ride for 300 miles, etc. without a break (I don't even do that in my car)? If not, then the need for the huge displacement bike becomes even less comprehensible to me.
Keith

I try to take a break every hour or maybe hour and a half no matter what I'm riding or driving. Being 63, I'm not 20 anymore ;-). But, it's a good habit for anyone going long distances. Offhand I can't think of a motorcycle that will go 300 miles on a tank of gas. The Concours 1000 that I have has about as long a range as any bike I personally know of. It has a 7 1/2 gallon tank and gets gas mileage in the mid 40's, so theoretically I could just squeak out 300 miles, but I'm not about to try it.

For touring, the practical appeal of some of the larger bikes is carrying capacity, and volume of lockable storage. All the touring/sport touring bikes have lockable saddlebags that detach and become luggage, with good carrying handles like suitcases, and that open like suitcases. Apart from that, there's lots of storage in various secure compartments around the bike, notably in the fairing, plus under, and behind the seat. Add to this enough wind protection to put the rider in, essentially a protective bubble, and you have a quieter, less stressful, dryer (if it's raining) ride. People use some of the space in the fairing to add music, two way communication, drink holders, etc. Also, the sheer weight of these machines makes them less hard on the rider going over rough roads/highways. Am I the only one who has noticed that the highway system is deteriorating a little more every year? And, of course, another big advantage to the big machines is the ease and comfort with which they will carry two people. It isn't just singles who tour - a lot of couples do this also, and not all women want to ride their own. So, there are good reasons for some people to own the big machines. I've known and run into any number of people who ride 50,000 miles and more every year, and some much more than that, riding all over the USA, and the Americas.

But, all this comes at a price. The bigger bikes generally handle well enough at speed, but they are cumbersome in parking lots. If one does fall over, very few people could pick one up alone. It takes two to three men (depending on the men) to pick my Concours up, I happen to know. Wouldn't want to make a mistake out in the middle of nowhere! And, bigger bikes are more expensive to buy, run, and maintain. If you do your own wrenching, bigger, especially with a fairing, takes much longer to do routine maintenance. I can do a valve lash adjustment on the GZ in about an hour. On the Concours it takes all day to do a tune up, and more if there are any issues.

Personally, I'm about to sell the Concours. I've got a BMW R850R that has a lot of the advantages of the "Connie" without some of the disadvantages. It gets better mileage, and is a lot easier to work on. I'll use that for my longer touring, but do most of my riding on the GZ250, which is just as much fun to ride locally or on the back roads, and is a lot easier and cheaper all the way around.