What did you get ?

[alanmcorcoran]

Originally Posted by burkbuilds

Music Man, you are very wise. We would all be better off in the long run if we followed your philosophy.

It's a wise approach as long as we are talking about things we don't really need or that will not otherwise reduce costs or increase income. Although it does introduce risk, credit and borrowing are essential elements to modern economies. Even in the poorest Western households, it probably makes more economic sense to borrow the money to buy a washing machine, than to use the time, money and gasoline to take one's clothes to a laundramat.

Even in the case of a motorcycle - if it allows you to get to a well-paying or good-benefits job you would otherwise not be able to get to, it might be very smart to borrow the money needed to buy it. Also, in some cases, borrowing to get a college education can result in a much better standard of living over the long term.

Using a credit card to buy toys, dine-out or go on vacations, on the other hand, is just digging a hole.

[music man]

Originally Posted by alanmcorcoran

It's a wise approach as long as we are talking about things we don't really need or that will not otherwise reduce costs or increase income. Although it does introduce risk, credit and borrowing are essential elements to modern economies. Even in the poorest Western households, it probably makes more economic sense to borrow the money to buy a washing machine, than to use the time, money and gasoline to take one's clothes to a laundramat.

Even in the case of a motorcycle - if it allows you to get to a well-paying or good-benefits job you would otherwise not be able to get to, it might be very smart to borrow the money needed to buy it. Also, in some cases, borrowing to get a college education can result in a much better standard of living over the long term.

Using a credit card to buy toys, dine-out or go on vacations, on the other hand, is just digging a hole.

True, very true. We live in a society that dictates that you almost HAVE to owe someone money for something. For instance, it would be impossible for anyone but the extremely rich to buy a house without borrowing money to do so, which I am working towards doing at this time in my life, and again, going to college without borrowing money from someone would be almost impossible, if you could afford to do that, you probably really didn't need the college education to begin with. I was more referring to credit cards, car loans, etc... We actually did get a credit card recently, but only to build credit so we could get a more favorable house loan in the future, and we only buy things with it that we already have cash in hand to pay off the balance with. But I would never buy a washing machine, motorcycle, T.V., or even a car, with credit, I just save up for it and pay cash (well i would buy a car with credit if it meant life or death, but you get the point).

Its weird that we live in a society where people look at me and my wife funny when we tell them that we don't have a car payment or credit cards, or that we don't owe money on our living room furniture, we might as well be telling them that we just flew in from jupiter.

On the other hand, My Ex-wife is probably paying for vacations and christmas presents she bought on credit for people three or four years ago, which probably explains to all of you the primary reason she is my Ex.

[alanmcorcoran]

I'm basically right there with you Music Man. I have some minor credit card balances because of on-line shopping and what not (I only have one that I use and a back-up in case of emergency.) I have a balance on my mortgage - which, due somewhat to luck and maybe a little foresight, is consideraby less than what it is allegedly worth. I have two ten year old cars that still run good and I don't owe anything on (although I did borrow initially to buy each of them.) I have a number of expensive things I probably didn't need to buy (a piano and three motorcycles, f'rinstance) but I indulged myself without borrowing.

Still, there was a time (a very LONG time) in my life where I borrowed to pay for almost everything, from college tuition, to legal bills, to basic necessities, to non-necessities (went on a month long vacation in an RV when the kids were small.) So, I can't really be too sanctimonious about it. The reality is, there is a big gap between what Americans are led to believe they can afford and what they really can afford and too many of us are tethered to a life long harness with which we drag our indebtedness behind us. I was never much for "Father Knows Best" type life lessons, but I really tried my best to impress on my children the importance of retaining some control over their financial destiny. Once you get in the position of having to take on work or responsibilities that are beyond your tolerance level so that you can "make your payments", life becomes much harder. In my case, it happened early on and I never knew any different until I was finally free from it. Now, it would be very hard for me to go back - probably impossible.

[music man]

I never understood the buy now, pay later philosophy, I could never enjoy a vacation that i borrowed money to go on, the whole time I would be thinking about the fact that I am going to be paying for it two vacations from now.


But yes you are correct that as a society we have been trained that if we make 40k a year, we should live like we make 80k and so on...... I on the other hand would enjoy much more, living comfortably on 40k and being debt free than living a little more comfortably and owing a couple of hundred grand to someone. It doesn't always feel good though, like right now, I want a bigger nicer T.V., I have enough cash in our car/emergency savings to buy the one I want 10 times over, but.... that is the whole reason we have an emergency fund, patience. So I will do what I always do, I will save for the next 6 months or so and just go buy it.

We save money all year long then take that plus income tax returns and pay cash for vehicles, we started out a few years ago having to pay a couple of grand for a car, now this year if nothing drastic happens between now and income tax time, we should be able to pay 8-9k cash for a car, plus get to keep the one we currently own. Our goal is to one day just be able to go buy a brand new car with cash, the feeling would be worth every bit of scrimping and saving it took, hell just to see the look on the car salesmens face would be priceless.

And the Walmart preloaded debit card (or something similar to it) is the only way to fly when it comes to online shopping, you have to give out very little personal info compared to the DNA sample you have to give to get a bank/credit card. I use mine to pay bills, buy things online etc... and the beauty is when I get done, there is very little balance on there for someone to steal, so even if they did get my card info somehow, they would go to clean it out only to find out they are only getting a few bucks. And if it is compromised somehow, I can just go to walmart and in five minutes have a whole new card and card number, and even if the thief could still use my old card, he couldn't ruin my credit or drain my bank account. I don't even have to go out of my way to load money on it, I shop at Walmart all the time, so I just do it while I am already there. :2tup:

[music man]

Man we have really veered off track on this thread, as a bonus I also got a late Christmas present, a new 20 piece set of screwdrivers from my son.

[Water Warrior 2]

Screwdrivers are always welcome. You will never have enough in this lifetime. Well, at least I don't. I have started filing down the Phillips to fit the JIS screws on bikes. Makes a world of difference with no more stripped heads and munched up Phillips screw drivers.

[JWR]

Late Christmas---Early New Year.

[attachment=0:3uh2qisv]100_0080.JPG[/attachment:3uh2qisv]

2005 Vulcan 500
1500 miles
Windscreen
Engine guard
Pass. backrest and rear rack.

Traded the 2006 Virago 250.

Happy New Year.

[music man]

Originally Posted by JWR

Late Christmas---Early New Year.

[attachment=0:1kraevuc]100_0080.JPG[/attachment:1kraevuc]

2005 Vulcan 500
1500 miles
Windscreen
Engine guard
Pass. backrest and rear rack.

Traded the 2006 Virago 250.

Happy New Year.

AWESOME!!!

[blaine]

Sweet ride.I love the blue.You will love the power and torque of the 500.Enjoy!! :2tup: :cool:

[JWR]

Thanks,

It seems to be very smooth.