Stalling during first fifteen minutes

[mr. softie]

Originally Posted by alanmcorcoran

Notebooks are built like disposable lighters.

My notebook is built like a Model A Ford. It is simple to work on, is an antique, is slow, is noisy, is under powered, and it breaks down a lot. It just keeps running year after year after year though... Some bailing wire, twine, and an old leather boot tongue are enough to get it back on the (information) highway.

Dell Inspiron 3800
600 Mhz PIII
512 megs ram
20 Gig Hard drive
fluky keyboard
flaky optical drive
5 minute battery

[alanmcorcoran]

Okay, so I took the bike to the shop.

Brian: Well we got your diag back..
Me: Well, did you find something?
Brian: Oh yeah, the tech says there's "Lots of probelms with the carburetor."
Me: Really? We'll I suppose that would be covered under warranty, no? (Thanks Easy...)
Brian: Ummm (gulp)... Uh.... actually, no, a carb cleaning is not covered under warranty.
Me: A Carb cleaning? You already charged me for a carb cleaning.
Brian: Uh no, we only did a 3K service.
Me: Read the itemization, it clearly says Carb cleaning. So, did you do one or just write it down?
Brian: Well, I don't know, that tech isn't here anymore. (FYI, this was like three weeks ago.)
Me: Well, frankly, it didn't seem like they did anything to the bike for the 3K. They didn't clean out the air filter plug and the bike stalled on the way out of your parking lot. I called service the next day and the guy told me to try Seafoam and if that didn't work to bring it back. Well, it didn't work and I brought it back.
Brian: Um.... Let me see what I can do.

That was at about 3pm PST. I was in the office until 5. No word yet from Brian.

Do you see whay I hate service departments? By the way, I dropped this bike off last Wednesday and today was the first call. This is a huge modern dealership in a sparkly building. I do like their parts guy who refused to sell my wife a 3/4 helmet (for my anniversary) without my head being there. (He gave her a picture of it.) Brought my head down and picked it up after a test fit. (Still might have gone too small, hoping it compresses a little more.)

[JWR]

I think I would ask Brian if there was something going on that they are not telling me about,or is it something they are not sure about.

You need to be nice,( I am sure you are) but you need to know the truth.

Shop problem??? Management problem???? Dollars???

[alanmcorcoran]

I blame society.

1) Being a mechanic used to be a respectable job. Doesn't seem that way anymore. Plus, you don't even get a mechanic, you get a "tech." The sales guys make more money than the techs and the big money is in F&I and other high profit (read low value) activities.
2) I believe in the 80/20 rule. Meaning I probably am more able than 80% of so-called mechanics to fix my bike myself. I also suspect that, if you are a member of the 20% that know what they are doing, you are working at the BMW or Porsche store, not at a Kawa/Yamaha/Suz/Honda dealer. Bottom line, the odds are stacked against the service customer.
3) The "service writers" (a job that did not exist 40 years ago) get more respect than the guys that fix things. The repairmen are treated like serfs, plugged in and thrown away like a filter and used oil. The money goes to the service manager, store profits, etc. - not to the mechanics.
4) Regardless of what they claim, most dealers do not give a crap about customer satisfaction. They are only concerned with their immediate survival and they are leveraged up to the hilt. The leveraged economics mean you can't take the time to do things properly, you can't afford experienced people and you need to "clear tickets" as fast as possible. No one is rated or rewarded on their mechanical genius - they are rated on the dollar value of the service tickets they clear.
5) To get good service, you have to become a problem customer, one that threatens the dealers cutomer service rating with the manufacturers, or just becomes a big distraction from clearing tickets. Even then, most dealers simply don't have the ability to provide service even if when they want to.
6) Mistakes cannot be admitted to or re-visited. They must be flatly denied. Mistakes cost the dealership money. Fixing mistakes not only doesn't make new money, but consumes resources that could be making money.

I didn't get this way overnight. And not every experience I've had with dealers has been bad. But MC dealers set a new low.
I also used to work for a car dealer and, although management talked a good game, we stank at service. We had a prima donna in the paint and body shop who thought he knew better than the manufacturers, we had guys go directly from working the sprayers in the car wash into installing brake pads, we had no end of people bringing their cars back for the same issues over and over. In the 12 months I was there we went through 6 service managers. We had one German mechanic that knew what he was doing (Dieter) and he only worked on Mercedes. He took his time, did what needed to be done, and did not care when the service manager, or the owner, got on his back about his pace. He knew that he was the only guy at the dealership, maybe the only guy in Upstate New York, that really knew how to fix a Mercedes (and yes, folks, they need lots of fixing, just like a Ford or Chrysler [okay, maybe not like a Chrysler]) and the dealership would be in a world of hurt if he left. The guys that worked there wouldn' let anyone else in the shop touch their cars except Dieter.

I have to find me a Dieter that knows GZ's.

[dan_]

His name'll prolly be Wong. haha that was wong..

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by alanmcorcoran

This is a huge modern dealership in a sparkly building.

That may be the problem. Got so much overhead that they can't afford to pay good help.

You said all the right things. Stick to your guns !!!

[alanmcorcoran]

...And the beat goes on...

So my wife comes back from Davis last night and, since we are Suburbaning to Breckenridge Friday, I asked her to drop me off at the dealer to collect the GZ today. When I arrived, the sole (barely sentient) service writer pulled up my "ticket" printed it out and presented it to me. To paraphrase: here's what it said:

BIKE RUNNING RUFF. Cleaned Emissions, BIKE STILL RUNS RUFF. Recommend: Carb Cleaning.

This after I was told it was "ready" and "all fixed." (And yes, they spell it "RUFF.")

I collected Mike, one of the "senior" writers, and I took him step by step through the entire sequence, starting with the 3K service (wherein they charged me for a carb clean), the continued stalls on warmup, my conversation with HIM about not riding the bike with the choke on (which he initially denied, then admitted to), the return of the bike, the first call I got where they recommended a carb clean (really? Another one?), etc. etc. and brought him up to today, where, again, they recommended a carb clean - which they either never did in the first place, isn't really the problem, or did a half ass job on. (Tech that did it either quit or was fired so no way to check with him on what exactly was done - I suspect nothing.)

Then I made him ROLL the bike out of the shop and start it up in the parking lot (COLD) following the sequence HE recommended (with Choke on then off.) As luck would have it, the bike continues to run like shit when cold and did so for Mike (alternating between racing with the choke full on, and stalling with the choke anything less than 3/4.) Mike admitted the bike was still running like shit. (I don't think Mike likes me very much at this point.)

So, ONCE AGAIN, the bike is in the shop for yet another "Diag" and maybe they will reclean the carb "if it needs it". I honestly don't think they can fix it, but I am going to leave it there and make them work on it until they either stumble across the problem, buy me a new one, or offer me cash to go away.

I'll be out of the state for the next 10-12 days. I'll report back on my next visit.

Originally Posted by alanmcorcoran

So, ONCE AGAIN, the bike is in the shop for yet another "Diag" and maybe they will reclean the carb "if it needs it". I honestly don't think they can fix it, but I am going to leave it there and make them work on it until they either stumble across the problem, buy me a new one, or offer me cash to go away.

What a nightmare - and your bike is basically new! I wonder if you could go over their heads and contact Suzuki directly. They surely don't want dealers like this representing them; maybe they have a customer relations arm that can bring some pressure to bear on this moronic dealer? Anybody know?

Keith

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by alanmcorcoran

...I'll be out of the state for the next 10-12 days. I'll report back on my next visit.

Gonna visit some of us "fly overs" again ?? :neener:

I'd be tempted to give Suzuki a "heads up", if you have time before you leave town.

[Moedad]

Put Mike and the GZ out of your mind for a while and enjoy the skiing.