Change Your Oil

[Stretch]

From your description, I believe that my clutch is adjusted properly. I can pull it in and the friction zone is between a third and two-thirds of the way to the grip. Everything was working fine (even with the slight bit of MMO I added in) until I put in the synthetic oil.

I am hoping the oil change will help.

I do have the manual, I printed it from here (luckily, it seems to be for a 1999 - my year!). I try to ask those that have done it first before hitting the book because the experienced folks normally know to add those little things (like hold onto the cover because it is spring-loaded) that are somehow forgotten by the service manual writer (or assumed to be common knowledge to the experienced mechanic reader, to be kind to manual writers).

Thanks again!
-Bob

[Water Warrior 2]

Hi Stretch, sounds like the crash course in Metric conversion is paying off. Just don't ever try to figure out how many liters of gas for every 100 kms travelled. That will cause serious brain damage. Metric, Imperial measure and U.S. measure are a bitch to convert without a decent conversion chart or smart calculator.
Really hate to hear you will dump the synthetic oil but it might serve to provide a good rinse to remove any other additives that could cause clutch slippage. Maybe check the bottom end of the clutch cable and assorted parts for anything hanging up or not fully releasing the clutch mechanism. Does the clutch cable itself have any serious bend in it to cause binding ?? Keep us informed.

[Badbob]

Originally Posted by Stretch

I try to ask those that have done it first before hitting the book because the experienced folks normally know to add those little things (like hold onto the cover because it is spring-loaded) that are somehow forgotten by the service manual writer (or assumed to be common knowledge to the experienced mechanic reader, to be kind to manual writers).

Unfortunately for us. Service manuals are written for experienced motorcycle mechanics. Seems to me it would be better to hit the book first and ask questions when you don't understand something.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by Stretch

From your description, I belive that my clutch is adjusted properly. I can pull it in and the friction zone is between a third and two-thirds of the way to the grip.

I'm not trying to be snippy here but this is important.

I said nothing about friction zone. Friction zone is hard to gauge by feel. Slack is not.
It is the SLACK that is important. With everything released (IE you not touching anything) there MUST be slack in the cable/lever. You measure this by taking 2 fingers and LIGHTLY trying to move the clutch lever back and forth; it should move at least 5 MM, measured at the end of the lever, with virtually 0 force applied. Or to put it another way, when fully engaged, there should be some "slop" in the lever.

If the cable is too tight, the clutch will not engage fully and will slip.

Maybe you got that from the previous message but your response didn't really indicate that.

My guess: The high solvent content of the MMO has penetrated the clutch plates and made them soft. The slippage just happened to show up about the time you put in the synthetic oil. The damage may be permanent.

Let's hope not and that either a cable adjustment or new oil solves the problem. I would love to be wrong about that!

[Stretch]

Actually Easy Rider, after I read your last post and sort of quickly said "it is ok" (please remember I am brand new at motorcycling - I have had my bike only a couple of months and put barely 1000 miles on her - so I will be asking/saying stupid things now and again in order to learn), I went to the general books I have on motorcycle maintenance and they alll agreed with you that clutch cables could be the problem. But they didn't mention how to check it as you did (which is why I ask and read BadBob). So, let me go into the garage and check. BRB

Ok, I took a ruler with me and held it on the grip with the wheel straight ahead and, using one finger, I could gently move the clutch level 5mm before I felt strong tension... but that being said, it wasn't free and easy movement for that 5mm, there was a bit of stiffness, not as much as after the 5mm, but it didn't feel like what I could consider "slack." I didn't see any obvious kinks or bends Water Warrior, so, I am wondering if, based on my reading, the clutch cable may need lubrication. That would be a relatively easy fix (at least based on what I saw in the manuals). I just need to go out later today and get the goodies to do it. So here is my plan:

1) Lube the clutch cable (it can't hurt and it might help).
2) Retest for clutch slack and, if necessary, adjust the cable tension (I am assuming the service manual will tell me how, I haven't had a chance to break that out as yet and the general manual was fairly vague about it).
3) Make a trial run to test for clutch slippage: if it is still there, go ahead and dump the Syntec and replace it with cheap no-frills/no-additives 10W40 from Pennzoil.
4) Make a second trial run for clutch slippage: if it is still there, assume the worst and start reading about clutch overhauls because at that point, my assumption would be that either I did damage the clutch or it simply decided to die right about the time I decided to try to change the oil.

Does this scheme make sense to those of you who are more experienced than I am at all of this? I am trying to move from cheap and easy fixes to the expensive and painful ones in a logical sequence.
-Bob

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by Stretch

it wasn't free and easy movement for that 5mm, there was a bit of stiffness, not as much as after the 5mm, but it didn't feel like what I could consider "slack."

1) Lube the clutch cable (it can't hurt and it might help).
2) Retest for clutch slack and, if necessary, adjust the cable tension (I am assuming the service manual will tell me how, I haven't had a chance to break that out as yet and the general manual was fairly vague about it).

Slack is slack. If it didn't feel like slack, then it isn't and needs to be adjusted. I would do that first BEFORE you try to lube the cable (which is NOT as easy as you might think).
And that 5 MM I suggested is BARE MINIMUM; the book says 10-15 MM.

What the owner's manual doesn't tell you is that the cable adjustment hardware is UNDER a rubber boot (at least on late models) which you must move first.

The instructions appear vague because the adjustment is really simple. No offense intended but if you can't figure this out, you had better find a mechanically inclined friend or a good shop. :roll:

[Badbob]

Slack = absolutely no tension on the cable

The clutch lever should move the first few millimeters without pulling on the cable at all. If you don't have this the clutch can't fully engage and it slips. The clutch plates are held together by spring tension. When you pull on the clutch lever it pulls the plates apart. I know thats not a real good description but I'm at a loss as how to explain it better without drawing pictures.

[Stretch]

Ok, I opened up the service manual and a maintenance book and took a look. (No offense taken Easy Rider -- I know what you mean and I agree.)

Initially the clutch handle moved through about 15 degrees of arc (5mm at the tip approximately) with slight resistance before hitting the "friction zone." When I took the rubber boot off, the tail end of the lever at the pivot point would seat itself against the arm (no space between the silver leading edge of the handle and the black trailing edge of the support just above the pivot).

When I adusted it to get 15MM of play the lever falls back and rests at the edge of the friction zone with a wide gap at the pivot point under the rubber boot. So, BadBob, I think I have it finally fully slack. There is no resistance at all, in fact, when I push the lower clutch lever (the one at the other end of the clutch cable that is on top of the engine housing) all the way to the right (which I believe is completely disengaged), it will slide back about 20 degrees to the resting position. So the clutch itself will push the clutch lever outward to some extent.

I just tried the bike and the friction zone is dramatically decreased. Where before I could engage the clutch with a couple fingers still resting between the lever and the handlebar, now the friction zone starts about an inch and a half from the bar and goes until full contact with the bar. Shifting is a bit quicker but not a subtle as before. I am still getting some slippage in 5th, but nothing I could detect in the lower gears. Traffic however held me up, so there is still a question mark on that. However, now I was at 63 MPH before the slippage and it was easier to handle than before with less playing around with the throttle.

I don't think that I adjusted it too tightly because when I hold the clutch fully in (lever against the grip), the bike doesn't creep forward.

My question is this... (and I haven't found it so far in the books I have looked at or the service manual): When at "rest" should the springs in the clutch hold that lower arm fully to the right (rearward) or is it ok to have it pull itself into a position about one-third of the way across its path of travel? I am wondering if my clutch is wearing out...

The syntec is still inside it and I haven't lubed the cable as yet.

I appreciate the help.
-Bob
:bow:

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by Stretch

I don't think that I adjusted it too tightly because when I hold the clutch fully in (lever against the grip), the bike doesn't creep forward.

Now you know what things feel like when the adjustment is at both extremes. 15 MM of slack is at one extreme. You probably should adjust once more and shoot for about half that. I find it much easier to gauge the adjustment by the gap near the pivot point, right there by the cable connection and the adjustment knobs. Once you know what that looks like when you have ~7-8MM of slack, you won't need a ruler next time.

Now, what next? I think you should just ride it for a while. With the clutch plates properly adjusted, the situation might improve a bit over time.......7-10 days. During that time, try not to stress it. If you TRY to slip the clutch, it will.......even on a new bike (this model).

Don't know about what is normal at the other end of that cable but will look later, if I remember.

[Stretch]

I did tweak the adustment a bit last night and then took her out for a longer spin and the performance was much better. I will take your advice and chill about it for a week or so. But while I was down there playing with the clutch cable, I noticed the chain was starting to get dirty, so I did a kerosene cleaning last night... and then I noticed the chain appears a bit too slack... started reading up on that. It doesn't appear too difficult... Ok, I can see why maintenance starts to get addictive and why these topics (at least whenever I join in) can wander from the original topic...
:roll:

I really appreciate all the help everyone gave me. This may have been a simple fix to a simple problem, but when it is your first time and you are by yourself, it seems like a big deal. For anyone reading this thread and actually interested in the oil change itself: for the record, the syntec is still in the bike and doing fine. The oil didn't appear to cause the troubles I had, it just brought them to light.

Enjoy the ride!
-Bob