Yet another electrical problem....help - Page 2

osborne · 04-13-2014, 02:42 PM

The wires are cut and twisted together about two inches below the clip together junction near the seat. The wire ends seems to be pretty well twisted together and I have a screw on connector cap over them. We can rule out the twisted ends contacting anything and causing the short. All the lights work correctly except the intermittent neutral light. Funny thing .....the bike will start with the neutral light on or off.

alantf · 04-13-2014, 03:32 PM

Just been over the wiring diagram. If the P.O. just shorted out the side stand switch, the power still goes to the side stand relay. In effect, all he's done is put the relay directly to earth, rather than the side stand switch closing and putting the relay to earth (i.e. completing the relay circuit to earth) In the diagram, to the left of the relay, you'll see a pair of diodes paired to a central point. One diode lets current flow from the relay to the neutral indicator light switch, and the other one lets current flow from the neutral light to the neutral indicator light switch. They're there to stop cross feeds. Looks like the P.O. only did half the job. Starting to look like the problem lies in the actual side stand relay itself. Check this out and let us know.

Trying to explain a bit more, the neutral indicator light switch closes when you're in neutral, allowing power to flow from a +ve source to the neutral light, then via one of the diodes to the switch, which closes to -ve, thus completing the bulb circuit, and allowing it light up.

Power goes from fuse #3 directly to the side stand relay, but now, with the side stand switch effectively shorted out, the relay is permanently energised, with a diode going directly to the common point of the diodes to the neutral indicator light switch.

Like I said - definitely looking like a side stand relay problem.

osborne · 04-14-2014, 11:20 AM

Good morning Alan. Thanks for taking the time with me bro. To be clear on an earlier post of mine, The sidestand part....that is, the part that bolts to the actual stand down low is missing entirely along with all but an inch or two of the wires attached to it. The PO left a couple inches of the leads below the green harness/clip and twisted them together. My question is: is there a workaround for the missing part and its diode? You mentioned n your last post that the job was "half done". Could you perhaps explain what the other half would be that might prevent the ignition fuse from blowing?

alantf · 04-14-2014, 11:40 AM

The part that is missing is only the switch. This switch (which is operated by the side stand being either up or down) energises the relay. It puts the positive that's flowing through the relay to earth, and thus completes the circuit. The two wires that are twisted together is the relay positive being put permanently to earth, so the relay is energised all the time, just as it would be if the side stand was up. It's the relay that does all the "thinking", so it acts as though the stand is up, whether it is or not. When you mentioned the neutral light being on or off - the common factor is the relay itself. That's what leads me to believe that this may be where the fault lies. It could be a blocking diode that's failed (allowing current to flow both ways) or anything else. I'll try to do a drawing of the circuit, to explain it to you, and post it as soon as I can. In the meantime, I,m sorry to say that I don't know exactly where the relay is situated, but keep looking for where the two wires go, and I'm sure you'll find it.

alantf · 04-14-2014, 12:16 PM

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As you can see from the drawing, the engine stop component and lamp are two separate parts of the relay circuit - however - your sidestand switch is disconnected and joined up to ground via the twisted cable. This means that if there's a fault in the relay, power goes straight from fuse #3, via the relay fault, straight to earth. This would also interfere with the lamp/lamp switch part of the relay, so you could get anything weird showing up (lamp on/off etc) So I still think that the fault is something to do with the relay. Afraid you'll have to find it and test for short circuits.

osborne · 04-14-2014, 12:21 PM

Well........I may have found the problem. Tracing the SS wires back I pulled some loose and badly wrapped Elec tape off the main wire trunk and found that 4 or 5 wires were melted and some burned through completely. Frankly...I'm astounded the bike started at all let alone run smoothly for several minutes. Seems the PO fancied himself a cycle electrician. Jesus. lemme fix the obvious wire problems and get back. Damn good thing the wires are all color coded.

alantf · 04-14-2014, 12:33 PM

I reckon you've found it.

Can't read the colour codes on the diagram (blurred) but I bet they link up with the relay somehow. If you can find a sidestand switch in our "parting out" section (for the right price) I hope you're tempted to fit it - if only for safety's sake. I've been riding for fifty years, and I'd have still ridden off with the sidestand down, occasionally, if it weren't for the safety switch cutting the engine.

osborne · 04-14-2014, 01:10 PM

Ordering the new switch Wednesday on ebay....8 bucks. Now where the hell did I put that pakg of connectors?

osborne · 04-14-2014, 01:57 PM

WOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!! I think I got it. Patched up the bad wiring, fired it up and it idled for almost ten minutes without a problem. Turned it off and fired it up again for a bit. No problems....gonna put it all back together and see if I can go up and down a block a few times. Fingers crossed.

04-13-2014, 02:42 PM	#11
osborne Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 46	The wires are cut and twisted together about two inches below the clip together junction near the seat. The wire ends seems to be pretty well twisted together and I have a screw on connector cap over them. We can rule out the twisted ends contacting anything and causing the short. All the lights work correctly except the intermittent neutral light. Funny thing .....the bike will start with the neutral light on or off. Login or Register to Remove Ads
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04-13-2014, 03:32 PM	#12
alantf Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tenerife (Spain) Posts: 3,719	Just been over the wiring diagram. If the P.O. just shorted out the side stand switch, the power still goes to the side stand relay. In effect, all he's done is put the relay directly to earth, rather than the side stand switch closing and putting the relay to earth (i.e. completing the relay circuit to earth) In the diagram, to the left of the relay, you'll see a pair of diodes paired to a central point. One diode lets current flow from the relay to the neutral indicator light switch, and the other one lets current flow from the neutral light to the neutral indicator light switch. They're there to stop cross feeds. Looks like the P.O. only did half the job. Starting to look like the problem lies in the actual side stand relay itself. Check this out and let us know. Trying to explain a bit more, the neutral indicator light switch closes when you're in neutral, allowing power to flow from a +ve source to the neutral light, then via one of the diodes to the switch, which closes to -ve, thus completing the bulb circuit, and allowing it light up. Power goes from fuse #3 directly to the side stand relay, but now, with the side stand switch effectively shorted out, the relay is permanently energised, with a diode going directly to the common point of the diodes to the neutral indicator light switch. Like I said - definitely looking like a side stand relay problem. __________________ By birth an Englishman, by the grace of God a Yorkshireman.
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04-14-2014, 11:20 AM	#13
osborne Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 46	Good morning Alan. Thanks for taking the time with me bro. To be clear on an earlier post of mine, The sidestand part....that is, the part that bolts to the actual stand down low is missing entirely along with all but an inch or two of the wires attached to it. The PO left a couple inches of the leads below the green harness/clip and twisted them together. My question is: is there a workaround for the missing part and its diode? You mentioned n your last post that the job was "half done". Could you perhaps explain what the other half would be that might prevent the ignition fuse from blowing? Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

04-14-2014, 11:40 AM	#14
alantf Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tenerife (Spain) Posts: 3,719	The part that is missing is only the switch. This switch (which is operated by the side stand being either up or down) energises the relay. It puts the positive that's flowing through the relay to earth, and thus completes the circuit. The two wires that are twisted together is the relay positive being put permanently to earth, so the relay is energised all the time, just as it would be if the side stand was up. It's the relay that does all the "thinking", so it acts as though the stand is up, whether it is or not. When you mentioned the neutral light being on or off - the common factor is the relay itself. That's what leads me to believe that this may be where the fault lies. It could be a blocking diode that's failed (allowing current to flow both ways) or anything else. I'll try to do a drawing of the circuit, to explain it to you, and post it as soon as I can. In the meantime, I,m sorry to say that I don't know exactly where the relay is situated, but keep looking for where the two wires go, and I'm sure you'll find it. __________________ By birth an Englishman, by the grace of God a Yorkshireman.
	0

04-14-2014, 12:33 PM	#17
alantf Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tenerife (Spain) Posts: 3,719	I reckon you've found it. Can't read the colour codes on the diagram (blurred) but I bet they link up with the relay somehow. If you can find a sidestand switch in our "parting out" section (for the right price) I hope you're tempted to fit it - if only for safety's sake. I've been riding for fifty years, and I'd have still ridden off with the sidestand down, occasionally, if it weren't for the safety switch cutting the engine. __________________ By birth an Englishman, by the grace of God a Yorkshireman.
	0

04-14-2014, 12:21 PM	#16
osborne Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 46	Well........I may have found the problem. Tracing the SS wires back I pulled some loose and badly wrapped Elec tape off the main wire trunk and found that 4 or 5 wires were melted and some burned through completely. Frankly...I'm astounded the bike started at all let alone run smoothly for several minutes. Seems the PO fancied himself a cycle electrician. Jesus. lemme fix the obvious wire problems and get back. Damn good thing the wires are all color coded.
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04-14-2014, 01:10 PM	#18
osborne Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 46	Ordering the new switch Wednesday on ebay....8 bucks. Now where the hell did I put that pakg of connectors?
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04-14-2014, 01:57 PM	#19
osborne Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 46	WOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!! I think I got it. Patched up the bad wiring, fired it up and it idled for almost ten minutes without a problem. Turned it off and fired it up again for a bit. No problems....gonna put it all back together and see if I can go up and down a block a few times. Fingers crossed.
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