Want your GZ to ride better? - Page 2

El_Shorto · 07-12-2007, 06:25 AM

Guys, if any of you want proof that you're getting a decent amount of moisture in your tires, do this: go to any gas station with an air filler. Waste 50 cents to get it running and spray the air at the flat palm of your hand at a distance of about 6 inches. After a few seconds, you'll realize that your hand is starting to get wet. Now, consider the fact that you're putting that into your tires for more than just a few seconds at a time. The water has nowhere to go and is going to change the way the pressure in the tire acts more drastically at varying temperatures. Remember that those gas station air compressors are just drawing ambient air and pressurizing it. So you're getting all the humidity and pollution in the air you breathe compressed into a nice tight tube.

Easy Rider · 07-12-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Shorto

spray the air at the flat palm of your hand at a distance of about 6 inches. After a few seconds, you'll realize that your hand is starting to get wet.

Really sounds logical but not true in practice. Unless the tire is completely flat (or VERY low) the rush of air through the hose is nowhere near the volume it is with the chuck open and un-restricted. It is the volume of the flow that picks up the water from the low spots in the hose and carries it to your hand.

However, if you are really worried about the moisture content in your tires, then giving a "foreign" system (like the gas station) a couple of full-flow blasts like you described before topping up the tires would probably be beneficial.

johncruise · 07-12-2007, 03:32 PM

I'm not fond of chemistry nor any branches of science but....

... what happens if the tire full of nitrogen gets punctured while you are riding? What other things we need to be aware of?

Thanks

El_Shorto · 07-12-2007, 04:07 PM

same thing that happens if an air filled tire is punctured. nitrogen is an inert gas, remember that the air we breathe is actually 70% nitrogen.

Easy Rider · 07-12-2007, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Shorto

same thing that happens if an air filled tire is punctured. nitrogen is an inert gas, remember that the air we breathe is actually 70% nitrogen.

And you lose you initial $10 investment AND it costs you another $10 to fill the new tire!

Sarris · 07-12-2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

And you lose you initial $10 investment AND it costs you another $10 to fill the new tire!

$10....... Big WOW. Cheap Bastard.

riningr · 03-20-2012, 09:17 PM

this is a pretty old thread, but just reading through it and wanted to put my two cents in... Air is 79% Nitrogen, and just a touch under 21% oxygen, that touch under 21% oxygen is made up of a bunch of other gases (helium, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, argon, etc. all add up to less than 1%)... sorry I'm a scuba diver, so I know the air composition like the back of my hand, so wanted to add in the correct percentage of Nitrogen -- that being said, it's a pretty big scam to get people to fill up with nitrogen other than possibly the aforementioned less leakdown part of it...IMHO at least...

mrlmd1 · 03-20-2012, 10:40 PM

In order to fill the tires with 100% Nitrogen, you would have to start with a totally empty tire, like in a vacuum and then start filling it.
All you are doing by filling a tire that already has air in it, is maybe upping the already Nitrogen concentration inside the tire from 78% to in the 80's maybe. Most places that do Nitrofill empty and fill and purge and refill the tire three times to get it up to 93-95% N2. And you would know what that concentration is only by analyzing the gas inside the tire.
And the tire that sits for years that goes flat because the oxygen diffused through the rubber? Are you kidding? You really believe that? Air is lost by leaking out around the rim seal and valve stem, not through the rubber sidewall or tread. If the tire was that weak you certainly wouldn't want to ride on it.
Studies have shown that testing tire pressures of air vs. N2 filled tires, and leaving them sit alone for a year, the difference in tire pressures at the end of that time is minimal, maybe 1 lb. difference at most, with starting out at 30psi., one losing 3 psi, the other 2 psi in a year. A normal person or garage would also have to periodically check tire pressures,so this doesn't eliminate routine maintenance.
N2 filled tires are touted as better because there is less oxidation of the rubber inside the tire. Good. What about the outside of the tire? Anyone have a recommendation for that problem?
.
While it is true that N2 filled tires have more stable pressures, for us, the average rider, it makes no difference at all. It is used in Nascar because as little as a half pound pressure difference can make a big deal in the handling of the car, airlines use it because of the extreme wear and heat in the tires, but regular drivers do not come close to these extremes.

From on article on this subject---
A quick look at a few of the nitrogen generator manufacturers' websites can give you an idea what may be driving some of the interest in swapping tire gasses. N2 machines can operate for as little as 25 cents an application. The generators themselves go for as little as four grand. After the first 200 or so nitrogen fill-ups, these things are more profitable than pretzel carts.

This is hype, a lot of crap. It is unnecessary but it it makes you feel good, like you are really accomplishing something, then go for it. Get some high octane gas to go along with your Nitrogen while you're at the station.I have a bridge I can sell you too.

And, for exactness and correctness sake, the atmosphere contains 78% Nitrogen.

Skunkhome · 03-22-2012, 01:47 AM

I worked for one of the largest interstate LTL freight companies with one of the best safety records. They do not and never have used nitrogen in their tires. Frankly in a long haul situation the tires don't last long enough, time wise, to oxidize on the inside and I have never seem any significant rust inside the bead on rims that remain in service for decades. There probably is significant merit in filling racing tires with an dry stable inert gas due to the extreme conditions and heat they are subjected to but to equate that to the tires on your family sedan is in my opinion specious. I do know for a fact that nitrogen filling of tires are beneficial to the vendors. Most of the information or misinformation about nitrogen filled tires is being circulated by vendors who stand to profit from exaggerated benefits in everyday use. If you think it is beneficial in your street bike than more power to you.

blaine · 03-22-2012, 08:23 AM

Believe none of what you read,and only half of what you see.

:2tup:

07-12-2007, 06:25 AM	#11
El_Shorto Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 28	Guys, if any of you want proof that you're getting a decent amount of moisture in your tires, do this: go to any gas station with an air filler. Waste 50 cents to get it running and spray the air at the flat palm of your hand at a distance of about 6 inches. After a few seconds, you'll realize that your hand is starting to get wet. Now, consider the fact that you're putting that into your tires for more than just a few seconds at a time. The water has nowhere to go and is going to change the way the pressure in the tire acts more drastically at varying temperatures. Remember that those gas station air compressors are just drawing ambient air and pressurizing it. So you're getting all the humidity and pollution in the air you breathe compressed into a nice tight tube. Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

07-12-2007, 03:32 PM	#13
johncruise Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sunnyvale, CA US Posts: 34	I'm not fond of chemistry nor any branches of science but.... ... what happens if the tire full of nitrogen gets punctured while you are riding? What other things we need to be aware of? Thanks __________________ Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

03-20-2012, 09:17 PM	#17
riningr Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Charlotte, MI Posts: 24	Re: Want your GZ to ride better? this is a pretty old thread, but just reading through it and wanted to put my two cents in... Air is 79% Nitrogen, and just a touch under 21% oxygen, that touch under 21% oxygen is made up of a bunch of other gases (helium, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, argon, etc. all add up to less than 1%)... sorry I'm a scuba diver, so I know the air composition like the back of my hand, so wanted to add in the correct percentage of Nitrogen -- that being said, it's a pretty big scam to get people to fill up with nitrogen other than possibly the aforementioned less leakdown part of it...IMHO at least...
	0

03-20-2012, 10:40 PM	#18
mrlmd1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Crawfordville, Florida Posts: 2,853	Re: Want your GZ to ride better? In order to fill the tires with 100% Nitrogen, you would have to start with a totally empty tire, like in a vacuum and then start filling it. All you are doing by filling a tire that already has air in it, is maybe upping the already Nitrogen concentration inside the tire from 78% to in the 80's maybe. Most places that do Nitrofill empty and fill and purge and refill the tire three times to get it up to 93-95% N2. And you would know what that concentration is only by analyzing the gas inside the tire. And the tire that sits for years that goes flat because the oxygen diffused through the rubber? Are you kidding? You really believe that? Air is lost by leaking out around the rim seal and valve stem, not through the rubber sidewall or tread. If the tire was that weak you certainly wouldn't want to ride on it. Studies have shown that testing tire pressures of air vs. N2 filled tires, and leaving them sit alone for a year, the difference in tire pressures at the end of that time is minimal, maybe 1 lb. difference at most, with starting out at 30psi., one losing 3 psi, the other 2 psi in a year. A normal person or garage would also have to periodically check tire pressures,so this doesn't eliminate routine maintenance. N2 filled tires are touted as better because there is less oxidation of the rubber inside the tire. Good. What about the outside of the tire? Anyone have a recommendation for that problem? . While it is true that N2 filled tires have more stable pressures, for us, the average rider, it makes no difference at all. It is used in Nascar because as little as a half pound pressure difference can make a big deal in the handling of the car, airlines use it because of the extreme wear and heat in the tires, but regular drivers do not come close to these extremes. From on article on this subject--- A quick look at a few of the nitrogen generator manufacturers' websites can give you an idea what may be driving some of the interest in swapping tire gasses. N2 machines can operate for as little as 25 cents an application. The generators themselves go for as little as four grand. After the first 200 or so nitrogen fill-ups, these things are more profitable than pretzel carts. This is hype, a lot of crap. It is unnecessary but it it makes you feel good, like you are really accomplishing something, then go for it. Get some high octane gas to go along with your Nitrogen while you're at the station.I have a bridge I can sell you too. And, for exactness and correctness sake, the atmosphere contains 78% Nitrogen.
	0

03-22-2012, 01:47 AM	#19
Skunkhome Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 203	Re: Want your GZ to ride better? I worked for one of the largest interstate LTL freight companies with one of the best safety records. They do not and never have used nitrogen in their tires. Frankly in a long haul situation the tires don't last long enough, time wise, to oxidize on the inside and I have never seem any significant rust inside the bead on rims that remain in service for decades. There probably is significant merit in filling racing tires with an dry stable inert gas due to the extreme conditions and heat they are subjected to but to equate that to the tires on your family sedan is in my opinion specious. I do know for a fact that nitrogen filling of tires are beneficial to the vendors. Most of the information or misinformation about nitrogen filled tires is being circulated by vendors who stand to profit from exaggerated benefits in everyday use. If you think it is beneficial in your street bike than more power to you.
	0

07-12-2007, 04:07 PM	#14
El_Shorto Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 28	same thing that happens if an air filled tire is punctured. nitrogen is an inert gas, remember that the air we breathe is actually 70% nitrogen.
	0

03-22-2012, 08:23 AM	#20
blaine Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: P.E.I. Canada Posts: 3,784	Re: Want your GZ to ride better? Believe none of what you read,and only half of what you see. :2tup: __________________ If at first you do succeed, try not to look surprised.
	0