some tips to keep you from dumping the bike.

[alantf]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

apply the brakes, just max of locking up the wheels and skidding.

Some bikes, now, are fitted with ABS, just like cars, to stop you locking up the wheels. Never ridden one myself, so don't know how efficient the system is (on bikes). Anybody out there ridden one? Does it work o.k.?

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

The fastest way to stop is to disengage the clutch (and power to the driving rear wheel) and apply the brakes,

+1 on a good post. I wonder about the clutch, however.

I've heard stories, and resulting recommendations, that if you lock the rear, to leave it locked.....because if it suddenly becomes free and gains traction again, it might fish-tail and result in a high side.

I've never tested that theory...exactly, but have come close a few times when I locked the back, with the clutch still engaged (and possibly the engine stalled), then released the back a bit to stop the slide and re-applied it again not quite as hard. In none of those cases did I feel that I was ever in danger of the dreaded fish-tail and high-side and I wonder if it was because there was still some "drag" on the back wheel from the engine ??

Don't know; just a thought.

[Water Warrior 2]

Originally Posted by alantf

Some bikes, now, are fitted with ABS, just like cars, to stop you locking up the wheels. Never ridden one myself, so don't know how efficient the system is (on bikes). Anybody out there ridden one? Does it work o.k.?

Never ridden an ABS bike but from what I have read and heard they are truly amazing in an emergency stop. Lots of comments like "never going back to non ABS bikes".

[New GZ250]

Make sure the kickstand is down before you get off your bike. (Seems like a simple idea but...)
:roll:

[mrlmd1]

If the clutch is still engaged and you're trying to do a sudden panic stop, the brakes are also fighting the engine power driving the bike ahead, in addition to trying to stop the weight/momentum of the bike. The rear brake is also fighting the engine. You'll stop in a shorter distance without any power to the rear wheel, in a shorter distance than with power still applied like trying also for engine braking.

If the rear tire regains traction and has power to it, with the wheels out of alignment, that's a setup for a high side crash. The back is going in a different direction than the front. The front brake is applied and the bike pivots around this point. If you get into a situation where the rear locks up, do not release the rear brake.

It's amazing, if you were trying to make a panic stop, that you could play with the clutch and rear wheel traction rather than just with the brakes, altho it was probably not a panic stop but just the start of a slower speed slide with the rear end mildly breaking loose. If the engine was stalled and the clutch was engaged, then the rear tire would lock up and slide. If you were going straight ahead, then it wouldn't necessarily fishtail. That only happens with the wheels out of alignment, as in a curve or turn, for example, altho it can slide sideways when going straight ahead too if the front brake is engaged and the rear tire slides, as in a semi trailer truck fishtailing. It depends for one thing on how fast you are going and if you realize this and can slow down enough and recover.

[Water Warrior 2]

Just a word about braking. The GZ has a better rear brake than Danny's new ride. Having ridden Lynda's M which has the same rear brake is quite an experience. But they will slow nicely with gearing down and rear pedal. As for an emergency stop we were taught to forget the tranny and just get on the brakes hard without locking up the wheels.

And Danny, please get some professional training. I know you feel confident on your bike and have grown and matured since you first logged on with your GZ. But I can tell you have developed some habits that may one day bite you when least expected. I finally had my training after many decades of riding and was amazed at some bad habits that were just waiting for me. You will be quite surprised how much more your skills will improve and expand.

[mrlmd1]

:plus1: :plus1:
That's what I said too, but it's hard to teach and old dog a new trick, unless he is willing to learn.

[Water Warrior 2]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

:plus1: :plus1:
That's what I said too, but it's hard to teach and old dog a new trick, unless he is willing to learn.

I went into the training thinking If they can teach me one new thing it is worth the money and time. I lost track of the new things and had to unlearn a lot of potentially dangerous habits.

[mrlmd1]

Good for you!
That's the point of those courses, to get it right the first time, or correct bad habits. It's all about doing it right, and being safe. The fact that you can get away with it and survive for a while doesn't mean you're doing whatever it is correctly. Learning about doing it right and making you understand what is going on makes it that much a safer activity, whether it's riding a motorcycle, learning to sail, or as was in my case, doing heart surgery. It's actually more macho to admit you need to learn something and get properly trained than to go out and try and learn it yourself.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

If the clutch is still engaged and you're trying to do a sudden panic stop, the brakes are also fighting the engine power driving the bike ahead, in addition to trying to stop the weight/momentum of the bike. The rear brake is also fighting the engine.

If the rear tire regains traction and has power to it, with the wheels out of alignment, that's a setup for a high side crash.

It's amazing, if you were trying to make a panic stop, that you could play with the clutch and rear wheel traction rather than just with the brakes,

If the engine was stalled and the clutch was engaged, then the rear tire would lock up and slide.

First a qualification: I've never ridden a bike bigger than 600 cc's so if we are talking 1800 cc's and 800 pounds, the situation might be different.......maybe a lot different.

I never said I was playing with the clutch; I don't touch it, in fact, until I almost come to a stop or the danger is past.

I have locked up the rear on probably a dozen different small to medium bikes over 40+ years and NEVER had a problem with the engine "fighting" the rear brake. The first reaction is reaching to get a firm grip on the front lever;that closes the throttle. At that point, I quite assure you that (on most bikes) stalling the engine is no problem at all. You can't in fact lock the rear if it is in gear without stalling the engine.

So, then the rear is locked and the engine is stalled. Unless you are in first (or maybe second) gear and you release the rear brake a bit so that the back wheel starts turning, the engine offers very little resistance......and might even start up again; a push start, in effect.

I've never actually HIT anything during a panic stop (probably shouldn't actually SAY that...) so they all have ended one of two ways: Come to a complete stop, still in gear with engine dead OR get it down below 10 mph and realize that either the danger is past or an easy way out has opened up, at which point I pull in the clutch and the engine is still running....or running again.

How many times have you made a panic stop and locked the rear ??
What was the result ??

Maybe my technique is all wrong.......but I don't think so.
The PRIME objective it to avoid the hazzard, either by stopping or swerving. My swerving leaves a lot to be desired so that pretty much leaves me with only one option. Anything that detracts even the tiniest little bit from applying my FULL attention to maximum braking without falling over is undesirable. In my opinion that includes the shifter and the clutch.