Oil and filter

[Bill]

The GZ250 is ready for the 3000 mile service and I'm not about to take it to the dealer for nut tightening, and oil changes so I thought I would check with the collective wisdom of the forum.
I have Three questions:
1. What kind of oil have folks used with their GZ250 and been pleased with?
2. What kind of oil filter do you use and what is the cost?
3. Where can I find easy to follow instructions for valve adjustments (pictures would be nice)?

OK I know that's really 4 questions. :oops:


Cheers!

[Dupo]

1. Never changed fork oil, cant help there
2. I used to get oil and filter at the dealer. The name escapes me now, but it was the only type they carried. Came in a 1.5 qt container. If i remember, the gz took the whole bottle (if u changed filter too). Cost for the oil was around $6 a bottle and the filter ... hmmm... I dont think it was all that much (dam i hate getting old, my memory is going).
3. Check the downloadable service manual?

[Badbob]

Disclaimer: I'm not a mechanic. I do my own work on just about everything I own. My experience is not vast but does go back some where between 40-50 years on a variety of engines from tractors to lawn mowers. If you do anything I tell you and it breaks your bike its your fault.

Originally Posted by Bill

1. What kind of oil have folks used with their GZ250 and been pleased with?

I Castroil GTX 20W50 until the 6,000 miles the switched to Mobil1 15W50 Red Cap. The difference was immediate and dramatic. Most notably in shifting. Do not use the Gold Cap "Extended Service Oil" This will make your clutch slip under certain conditions such as wide open throttle acceleration. I know this from personal experience. A quick google search will find many reference to this but this one is mine. I have it in my bike now.

My reasons for using Mobil1. I use Mobil1 in my truck and I didn't want to keep two different oils and I didn't want to be concerned about changing the oil on time. I had also heard from some one else that it made the bike run better primarily in the area of shifting. My GZ250 had always been hard to shift until I put the Mobil1 in it.

Originally Posted by Bill

2. What kind of oil filter do you use and what is the cost?

I have several different filters of various brands. I paid big bucks for the first on and keep them in stock now. I also have filters I got when I bought someones spare parts. after they got rid of their GZ250. The bottom line is that I probably have or had just about every every filter they make for the GZ250. Here ar the differences I have seen.

• The packaging is different. Suzuki filters are in a blister pack. All he rest are in boxes.

• The cost is different. Prices are in the range of $2.50-$10.00. The cheapest one looks just like the most expensive. The most expensive was way outside this range and was purchased from a local dealer. It didn't look any different than the rest.

• One filter was pink the rest are brown.

• Some of them come with new rubber. I'd pay a tiny bit more for this but not much. O rings last a long time. If they look good keep them.

• Price doesn't indicate anything. The lowest cost filter in this group is the same brand as the lowest.

• If you take them out of the package and line them up on you bench and examine them closely you will not be able to tell them apart with the notable exception of the pink filter. As far as I can tell most of them came from the same factory. Possibly all of them did.

I'm currently using the Suzuki filters because I don't like the blister packs and want to get rid of them.

If they sold filters for my bike at WalMart or AutoZone that is the one I would use.

Originally Posted by Bill

3. Where can I find easy to follow instructions for valve adjustments (pictures would be nice)?

Short answer is the service manual buy one. I have service manuals for every vehicle I own.

Some suggestions for tools have been posted on this site. If you hands are large and you don't have the right tools the valve clearance adjustment can be very difficult. Get and use the offset feeler gauges like those made for motorcycles. I can't get this right with standard automotive gauges. They break if you bend them to far.

One note of caution. As valves and rocker arms wear the clearance gets tighter. You want to adjust them to where they are near the top of the range. Tighter clearance can give better performance but the risk of burning a valve increases as the clearances get tighter. If the clearance gets to tight the valves will not seat properly. This prevents them from cooling like the should and they leak. This can cause some very bad things to happen to your engine. Be very sure you have the engine at TDC on the compression stroke when you make the adjustment. I do this by plugging the spark plug hole with my finger. When it come up to TDC there will enough compression to blow my finger out. The mark on the flywheel goes around twice and if you the other TDC is on the exhaust stroke.

My take on motorcycle oil.

99% of the postings on this subject are garbage. Weed out the trash. Inform yourself and and make your decision. Live with it. IMO: Truth is that if the oil meets the makers minimum criteria, your clutch doesn't slip, and you change your oil a prescribed intervals it will be fine. There is lots of good information this subject out there mixed in with cat fights over which oil is best. You just have to filter through it.

90% possibly of what comes from marketing is simply hype. This is one area where some times you get good info from a manufacturer. Mobile1 being one of these. Much of the ads are mostly of the mine is bigger/better than yours type with the occasional "if you use our oil you will have a sexual relationship with a beautiful woman".

To the best of my knowledge Suzuki ins not in the oil business. They sell rebranded oil for high prices. If you into the warranty thing you may want to use this. If you do it yourself you better keep a log and use recommended lubricants or you may void your warranty. I think the best buys on motorcycles are the low millage ones the have expired warranties.

Note that I'm not trying to start a cat fight over who makes the best oil.

[Dupo]

I dont think there is a "best" oil... but i sure would recommend using motorcyle oil and not car oil. Ive read many times that motorcycle oil and car oil are slightly different. If you use car oil you have to shorten the interval between oil changes. I have an 'oilology' post somewheres - if i remember what forum it was on i'll copy/paste it.

[Dupo]

Found it -- its from the honda forum, but applies to all.

Oilology


This post was created to help answer some of the common questions about oil that so often passes through this forum.

Keep in mind that all modern API approved oils are high quality oils. Honda recommends an API service classification of SG or higher for our Shadows.

Q. Can I use automotive oils in my Shadow?

A. Yes, anytime you use automotive oil it is referred to as ‘Non motorcycle specific oils’. If you’re going to use these oils just keep a few things in mind.
(1)Be sure you buy an API certified oil.
(2)Check the bottom half of the API seal, if it has the words ‘Energy Conserving’ then its probably better to pass on that one.
(3)If you do use an automotive oil you might want to reduce the mileage between oil change intervals.

Q. Can I use a heavy-duty truck oil like Mobil Delvac or Shell Rotella-T?

A. Yes, these oils are becoming quite popular among motorcyclist. The additive packages used in these oils more closely match the additive packages used in or claimed to be in the motorcycle specific oils. The truck oils are API certified unlike many of the motorcycle specific oils that only claim to meet a certain API certification. The truck oils have API certification codes for both diesel and gasoline engines.
The Chevron Delo oil is the only one that I might caution someone about using because it has a pretty high level of Moly in it and it could lead to clutch slippage
You can also go the same mileage between oil changes that you would with a motorcycle specific oil. These oils are designed for higher mileage applications.


Q. Can I use Synthetic oil in my bike?

A. Yes, there isn’t anything about synthetic oil that would make it not useable in our Shadows. Now that’s not to say that synthetic oil will work in everyone’s bike because some engines and some riding conditions just don’t match up well with certain types of oils. That also goes for any oil, synthetic or crude.

Also synthetic oil is no different than any other oil in that it shouldn't be an 'Energy Conserving' type oil. So be sure you look at the API service seal on the bottle to make Sure the words 'Energy Conserving' are not listed in the bottom half of the circle.

Q. How many miles should I have on my bike before I can change to synthetic oil?

A. This question always gets some wild answers. If you wait until the first 600 mile service then you should be fine. The statements of having to go thousands of miles before you can switch to synthetic oil are nothing more than myths.

Q. Can an engine have too many miles on it to change to synthetic oil?

A. The oil manufacturing companies say ‘No’ but I disagree with their claim. There are countless testimonies of people developing oil leaks and rattles after changing to synthetic oil in late life high mileage engines. The rattles are not nearly as common as the leaks. The problem is that there isn’t a set amount of mileage or time that marks the point of being to many, or to long. What most people would call low mileage I would say would be fine, 20,000 miles or so. As for age, I would call any engine that is over ten years old an older engine and for sure any that was manufactured pre 1990. The reason I say pre 1990 is because the crude oils of that time could have well plated the inside of the engine with more varnish than the later dated oils.
You might very well be able to switch to synthetic oil in a much older vehicle with a lot more miles on it than 20,000 and not have a problem at all. But it gets to be like the rolling of dice: sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If you have an older bike that has a fair amount of miles on it and it’s running good, then I would say, ‘Let the sleeping dog lie’.

Q. What’s the best viscosity range of oil to use in my bike?

A. Honda recommends using 10W-40 oil for what is considered ‘Normal riding conditions’. That does not mean you have to use that, nor does it mean that a 10W-40 oil is the best for your riding conditions. It’s quite possible that you could choose an oil with a more dedicated viscosity range. The recommended 10w-40 oil is the most universal oil or the one oil that covers the widest temperature spread between different climates. A good crescent wrench will fit the 13mm bolt, but not as well as a good 13mm six point socket will. If you’re not going to be starting your bike (cold starts) in temperatures below 20 degrees (f) then you could move up to a 15W-40 oil or even a 20W-40. The same thing applies to the high number listed for the oils viscosity range, except on the other end of the temperature range. If you don’t do a lot of extreme hard riding in extreme heat like above 110 degrees (f) then you probably don’t need an oil with the high number above 40. What about those that do ride in the extreme heat? They would be more concerned about the high viscosity number. They would do better using an oil like, 20W-50 or even a 15W-50.

Q. What is a good mileage to go between oil changes?

A. The Honda owner’s manual for my ‘97 1100 Spirit states 8,000 miles. There seems to be two understandings of this recommendation.
(1)Honda recommends 8,000 miles, so that is what you are supposed to do. It’s a good thing.
(2)The recommended 8,000 miles is a Maximum amount of miles to leave the oil in the engine.

Number 2 would be the more correct answer. Think about it like this. If your bike is still under warranty and you go beyond the recommended 8,000 miles before you change the oil it can jeopardize your warranty. Some live with the belief that whatever the owner’s manual states is an absolute! In a way it is, if you think of it as the absolute Max number of miles and beyond that can cause damage to your engine. That tells me that an oil that is left in our Shadow engine’s for 8,000 miles has out lived its usefulness.
Here is what I recommend for the mileage between oil changes.
Automotive oils = 2,000 to not over 2,500 miles.
Heavy-Duty truck oils = 3,000 to 3,500 miles.
Motorcycle Specific oils = 3,000 to 3,500 miles
All Synthetic oils = around 5,000 miles.

The above listed mileage’s does not mean you should let used oil rest in the bikes engine during long periods of storage.

Q. I bought some extra oil on sale, how long can I store it?

A. The actual oil doesn’t really ever-go bad but the additives can. I sent out an email to the Shell Oil Company with this question, they informed me that an unopened bottle of oil has a shelf life of five years. They went on to say that it is possible that oils that old may still be usable, but it should be tested first.

Q. Are there any oils that are known to cause problems with our bikes other than 'Could cause problems'?

A. I don't know if there is any one oil that would be a problem in Every motorcycle that you put it in. There is one type of oil that I wouldn't put in my motorcycle on a dare.
Some oil companies now have a line of oils that are designed for older higher mileage engines. These oils have additives in them to help seal oil leaks and to help better control oil flow. These additives will at lest cause Some wet clutches to slip. I have seen an older Virago that had a six month old clutch torn down due to the owner changing to one of the 'High Mileage Engine oils'. Another thing about that Virago was that changing back to his normal oil didn't help the clutch. To fix the bike the mechanic had to remove the clutch plates, soak them in kerosene, dry them, then he used a fine sand paper and buffed the surface of all the plates and re-installed them.

Q. What’s the correct way to check the oil in my Shadow?

A. From the Honda OEM service manual.

“Start the engine and let it run for a few minutes.
Stop the engine, remove the dipstick and wipe the oil from the dipstick with a clean cloth.
Two to three minutes after stopping the engine; with the motorcycle in an upright position, insert the dipstick into the stick hole without screwing it in”

The important points to remember is that the motorcycle Must Be on level ground and in an upright position not resting on its side-stand.
Next, to properly read the oil level on the dipstick you Must Not screw it into the engine, the dipstick is to only rest on top of the dipstick hole.

Q. How do I correctly read the oil level marks on the dipstick?

A. It’s really no different than the reading the dipstick in a car.
The Honda service manual states that when the oil is Near or Below the lower mark that you are to remove the filler cap and fill to the upper mark. That means that if the oil is somewhere reasonably between the upper and lower marks on the dipstick then the oil is at a safe operating level. That leaves the upper mark on the dipstick as a max fill line, still safe but Max.
Caution! Do Not over fill the crankcase with oil, doing so can damage the engine seals.

[Badbob]

Some good reads about oil.

More Than You Ever Wanted to Know About Motor Oil
Motorcycle Oils vs. Automotive Oils Surprising New Evidence on the Viscosity-Retention Question

[Bill]

Great responses!!!
I feel so much better now. I have also read a bit on some other forums but nothing specific for the GZ250. Since we have 2 different bikes (GZ250 and C50) I was hoping that we could use/stock just one oil that would work well for both of them. On the Volusiariders.com forum the consenses is overwhelmingly toward the Shell Rotella-T in either dino or synthetic usually available at W-Mart. Many seem to prefer the synthetic so I may consider that one for the bikes.
I guess I might as well use the Suzuki filter unless there is a more readily available filter that will work as well as less cost. Badbob - I didn't quite know if you were giving me some alternative filter suggestions. If so they didin't print through.
Thanks for the detailed information.
I'll check the manual on the forum for the valve adjustment. Thanks for the additional tips. I'll have to spring for the proper tools since I have large hands (XL - XXL glove size).

Just a small tip I'm sure you all know but maybe for the first time owners - checking the oil in the sight window can be a little tricky if you try to hold the bike upright with one hand while squatting down to see. The bike could start to tip over. Not good. I tried that early on with my C50 and just about got squashed. Instead invest in a mirror (about the size of a quarter) that swivels on the end of a collapsable handle. Sit upright on the bike and extend the handle to view the sight glass. Available at automotive stores.

Cheers!

[Badbob]

As far as I know, no one ever hurt their bike from using automotive oil that met the manufacturers recommended API specification. SF or SG is what it says in the owners manual. The only problem I have ever heard of from using any automotive oil is clutch slippage. Some of the new oils are much more slippery to slippery for wet clutches. If you pick one and it slips change it to something else.

Will it last longer if you use a motorcycle oil? Probably not enough that you would notice unless you don't change your oil in which case I'm betting on synthetics.

Will brand X oil give you better gas mileage or more horsepower? Possibly but in most cases I doubt you would notice the difference.

Personally I like synthetics for everything. I've been using them in various forms for more than 30 years and I'm happy to see more of them in use.

My criteria:
Oil must be readily available. If they sell it at WalMart it meets this one.
It must be a synthetic. I prefer Mobile1. I'd use something else if I had to but I like this better.
It must meet or exceed the manufacturers recommended API specification.
It must not make my clutch slip.
I will not pay extortion prices to have the word motorcycle printed on the label.