An increase to 15% ethanol?

[dentheman]

I was just reading in Yahoo News that the EPA is studying if vehicle engines will run OK on 15% ethanol. So far they say it looks good. They probably will increase ethanol from 10% to 15% this fall. I don't like the thought of that for motorcycle engines (and other small engines), even the GZ manual says 10% is OK, but does not mention higher % of ethanol. EDIT: I went back and reread the manual, it says ethanol can be used if IT IS NOT GREATER THAN 10%!

[5th_bike]

There will be problems with everything starting to rust - especially the storage tanks and dispenser systems and their gaskets and fittings, of the gasoline stations. With 10% ethanol they already report a lot of problems, at least in Maryland.


My take:

Ethanol in the bottle: :2tup:

Ethanol in your fuel: :fu:

[frempath]

Hmm, Maryland must be fairly new to the alcohol fuels scene. I remember much of the same 30 years ago in Nebraska. What was discovered was that the alcohol did cause petroleum based plastics that had not been designed with it in mind to melt when exposed to alcohol fuels. The fix was the replacement of those plastics with new products made with alcohol in mind. As to the rust issue, the alcohol fuels did not cause rust, but did in fact break down rust. That caused rusted out fuel tanks and lines to suddenly not have big chunks of rust plugging up the holes that were already there. 30 years ago you also had these same problems with vehicles, but the newer vehicles have been built to handle alcohol. The old 93 Taurus I had was even a "Flex Fuel" that could handle up to 80% alcohol.

The biggest problem with small engines and alcohol is not the engine so much as the carburetor. Alcohol blend fuels vaporize at about 10 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than regular gasoline. This is not a problem in fuel injected engines, but carburetors can experience vapor lock during summer months at a cooler temperature than you would expect. 90 degrees at 3000 feet is where we used to start to see it.

So, I guess the short answer is that you may need to get the engine retuned, but that should be about it. If your local gas station is complaining about storage leaks caused by alcohol, find a new station. They probably have old rusty equipment and have been selling you contaminated fuel for some time.

[dentheman]

90 degrees at 3000 feet, describes my situation much of the time.

[Water Warrior 2]

Yesterday I noticed the 94 octane gas was labelled as 0% ethanol while 87, 89 and 91 were labelled as containing up to 10%. 94 octane in a modern low compression engine would be a total waste of money and lessen your real world power. I wonder if the "powers that be" are just making noise to justify their jobs. I can just see how happy everyone will be to be forced to spend hard earned money on hi octane fuel for lawn mowers, garden tractors and other small engines that are essential in their lives. Modern cages may be FI but there are still so many other engines out there that are not.

[alantf]

Originally Posted by Water Warrior

Yesterday I noticed the 94 octane gas was labelled as 0% ethanol while 87, 89 and 91 were labelled as containing up to 10%

Is the Canadian octane rating same as the European? I've just checked my handbook, & it says "use lead free fuel of 91 octane or higher" I always thought we could use the lowest rating in the GZ engine. :??:

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by Water Warrior

94 octane in a modern low compression engine would be a total waste of money and lessen your real world power.

EXCEPT in the case that you noted. Ethanol has less energy density than gas. A 10% ethanol addition automatically means about 4% less fuel mileage, sometimes more.
SO...........
If the price of the non-ethanol grade is LESS than 4% more, it might be an advantage. Since it is a much higher octane, it is highly likely that the price difference will be much more.

Higher octane in an engine that doesn't need it does not automatically mean poorer performance; sometimes it does and sometimes not; it is always more expensive though.

[Sarris]

The European and American octane numbers are different for the same stuff.

America uses the MON + RON/2 to achieve the stated octane number, whereas Europe only uses the RON (?? one or the other) number.

MON is the motor octane number and the RON is the Research Octane Number. One is numerically lower than the other for the same stuff.

SOS, regular is regular is regular is regular.... Use the lowest possible grade available. It will run on 60 octane cat piss if you can find it.

Premium here in Florida is 20 cents per gallon higher per gallon on average.

:2tup:

[5th_bike]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

Ethanol has less energy density than gas.

That's another thing indeed.

Of course, there are two ways in which you can look at a gasoline that has ethanol added:

1) as watered down gasoline - instead of strictly carbon and hydrogen, now H2O is added in the form of ethanol, or
2) as partially burned gasoline - instead of strictly carbon and hydrogen, now oxygen is added i.e. it is partially burned.

Take your pick. Again,

And here is some interesting reading about the pollution caused by ethanol plants:
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13646