GZ Will Not Start

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

To ER and alantf -- ER, you decided that, you believe that, not me. Every battery I've seen here, Yausa, Interstate, Exide, is listed as an AGM on the box, comes dry with a plastic container full of sulfuric acid that you add through the top of the battery,

I have nothing else to add to this.

I think you are simply mistaken about the AGM part......but of course you are too stubborn to admit it. This is nothing new. :roll:

I did a quick web search last night on AGM BATTERY. Found lots of information; looked at probably a dozen various sites......and NONE of them had any information that matches your belief....NONE.

The method of shipping, filling and charging matches EXACTLY that which has been in effect for maybe 30 years.......for conventional wet cell lead acid batteries, not AGMs.

[mrlmd1]

I won't continue to argue with you because:
1.) You are always right no matter what the topic is
2.) You are more stubborn than I am and are reverting back to your old derogatory ways again.
3.) I did not present any made-up belief, I presented fact. That made me believe.
4.) It's right on the box and the case and in the instructions of 2 of my newer smaller batteries - the Yausa I got from Battery Web for the GZ is an AGM-SLA, also known as a VRLA (valve-regulated lead-acid) battery. The code is YTX on the battery, which means AGM, from all the manufacturers- Yausa, Exide, Interstate, etc, etc, etc. The battery for my jetski I got in Walmart has the same thing on the box and on the battery case. Both of these came with acid in a container that the user has to fill the battery with, then it is sealed. I guess I bought false advertising from 2 separate companies that misrepresented regular lead acid flooded batteries as AGM's, or as VRLA's.
Yuasa and other manufacturers make a factory precharged and a user charged battery, depending on the size. These are sealed (once the acid is in and the plastic strip is placed over the filler holes) but are vented so they don't explode during charging and are called "maintenance-free".

Copied from a battery site:
Flooded may be standard, with removable caps, or the so-called "maintenance free" (that means they are designed to die one week after the warranty runs out). All gelled are sealed and are "valve regulated", which means that a tiny valve keeps a slight positive pressure. Nearly all AGM batteries are sealed valve regulated (commonly referred to as "VRLA" - Valve Regulated Lead-Acid). Most valve regulated are under some pressure - 1 to 4 psi at sea level.

From Wikepedia:
VRLA stands for valve-regulated lead-acid and is the designation for low-maintenance lead-acid rechargeable batteries. Because of their construction, VRLA batteries do not require regular addition of water to the cells.[1] VRLA batteries are commonly further classified as:

* Absorbent glass mat battery
* Gel battery

These batteries are often colloquially called sealed lead-acid batteries, but they always include a safety pressure relief valve. As opposed to vented (also called flooded) batteries, a VRLA cannot spill its elecrolyte if it is inverted. Because VRLA batteries use much less electrolyte (battery acid) than traditional lead-acid batteries, they are also occasionally referred to as an "acid-starved" design.
And.
Compared with flooded lead-acid cells, VRLA batteries offer several advantages. The battery can be mounted in any position, since the valves only operate on over pressure faults. Since the battery system is designed to be recombinant and eliminate the emission of gases on overcharge, room ventilation requirements are reduced and no acid fume is emitted during normal operation. The volume of free electrolyte that could be released on damage to the case or venting is very small. There is no need (nor possibility) to check the level of electrolyte or to top up water lost due to electrolysis, reducing inspection and maintenance.
And,
Many modern motorcycles on the market utilize AGM or factory-sealed AGM batteries for the combined benefits of reduced likelihood of acid-spilling during accidents, and for packaging reasons (lighter, smaller battery to do the same job; the battery can be installed at an odd angle if needed for the design of the motorcycle.

So you can keep looking on the web all you want or not, so can everyone else, call the manufacturers like I did - these are the facts of what I have, what I've researched, and the way these two came. Some AGM's are shipped that way, not prefilled or precharged. That's the reality, now do what you want and come back with something else but I won't be answering you again.

[alantf]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

Many modern motorcycles on the market utilize AGM or factory-sealed AGM batteries

Aw, c'mon doc! Make your mind up! Earlier, you said (and I quote) "The batteries are all shipped dry to the dealer" :??:

[mrlmd1]

The batteries in the sizes we are talking about, for motorcycles and other small engines, as far as I know and have seen, either in the battery stores or Auto stores, or in Walmart types, or shipped from an internet source, are all packaged dry, with the acid in a separate plastic container. The larger size AGMs (or the VRLAs) and all the Gels are factory packed. You may find an exception to "all" if you try hard enough. Let's not be picky and belabor this to death. Your experience in Europe may be different, for all I know Illinois is different, but that's the way it is here. OK?

[alantf]

Not being picky - it's you who are contradicting yourself.

You've made two statements.
(1) Many modern motorcycles on the market utilize factory sealed batteries.
(2) The batteries are all shipped dry to the dealer, with acid separate.

O.k. which statement is correct? (pick any one from two!) :smoke:

[mrlmd1]

Well excuse me!
MANY motorcycles utilize factory sealed batteries, SOME DON'T, as in the smaller bikes like the GZ with the 3 different batteries I got from 2 different companies and the others I looked at before I sorted out my own battery problem a year ago. 2 different brands, both VRLA's, ie, AGM's, which were not factory sealed. They also make some that are factory sealed, or there may be a choice for various applications, but not from the 2 sources I got them from in these sizes for this small bike. Go look up on the web the different batteries that fit these small bikes from different manufacturers for yourself and waste more of your own time doing it. And the jetski battery, I bought, also an AGM in a slightly larger size, was not factory sealed. So #1 is true, ie., MANY do, maybe not ALL. OK now? Is that a good enough "correction" for you? This is ridiculous. If you'd like to come and look at my batteries, I'd be happy to show them to you, you pay the airfare.
Again, and now for the last time, that's it for me on this. This is a total waste of time for me to argue about it any further. I presented facts, you both want to argue about semantics and your own opinions, so go right ahead.

[alantf]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

Well excuse me!
there may be a choice for various applications,

Ah well......... that's a completely different kettle of fish! If you'd said that in the first place you'd have been perfectly correct. Now pick up the dummy you've thrown out of the pram, and accept that you've changed your tune! (oh - by the way - yes, I do excuse you for your previous contradictions!) :whistle: :roll: :2tup:

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

I won't continue to argue with you because:
1.) You are always right no matter what the topic is
4.) It's right on the box and the case and in the instructions of 2 of my newer smaller batteries -

Copied from a battery site:
Nearly all AGM batteries are sealed valve regulated (commonly referred to as "VRLA" - Valve Regulated Lead-Acid). Most valve regulated are under some pressure - 1 to 4 psi at sea level.

Some AGM's are shipped that way, not prefilled or precharged. That's the reality, now do what you want and come back with something else but I won't be answering you again.

And THAT is a classic cop out.

You can back-pedal all you want and claim you didn't say what you DID say but the fact of the matter is that some of the statements you made are simply wrong. An "all" here and there has magically become "some".

YOU SAID:

"All these batteries, even from any dealer, come dry, you have to fill them with the container of acid that comes with them.
Regardless of what brand you get, they are all AGM batteries in this size, "

And that is simply NOT true, at least not the way you stated it.

Regardless of what your research may have led you to believe......ALL batteries of this size are NOT AGM......and as one of the quotes YOU provided says "Nearly all AGM batteries are sealed valve regulated", which does not mesh with a "user" installed seal; certainly not one that can be removed to add liquid later.

All small batteries are NOT AGM. They just aren't. You can flail around and protest all you want and spew smoke and mirrors but it won't change that fact. Conventional flooded cell small batteries are still widely available. I got one just 6 months ago.

[mrlmd1]

While I won't address my previous posts re: small AGMs, I will address you. Again.
You said:
"And THAT is a classic cop out." I don't even know what you are talking about, What you quoted in that little box in your post doesn't relate to that comment in any way I can figure out.. Don't bother clarifying, it doesn't matter.
You said :
"ALL batteries of this size are NOT AGM." "All small batteries are NOT AGM".
I never said that, I never implied that, but you can insert quotes applied to me if you want. Most, and I will go out on a limb and say this, batteries in this size for motorcycles are. See below.
And:
"And that is simply NOT true, at least not the way you stated it". And you have some factual way of backing up your statement rather than just promoting it as truth? And what does it mean, the way I stated it? Who cares anymore?
Then,
"....and as one of the quotes YOU provided says "Nearly all AGM batteries are sealed valve regulated","
Is there something wrong with that statement, picked off another site? Prove me wrong if you'd like to try. Don't spout bullshit on here with your bullying tactics. Is the word "nearly" wrong. or the word "all" wrong, stated by someone else on a battery site? And you too can come down here and look at my user-filled AGM VRLA battery if you don't believe me. On second thought, forget it, I'd rather not meet you in person. You'd probably say I had the box, the label on the battery and the instructions printed up just to fool you.

By the way, if you put a small flooded cell battery on your bike 6 months ago to save a few bucks, IMO, that's not very smart. If the bike goes down it may spill acid, If it gets overcharged for whatever reason, gas may expel acid out all over your bike. That's why practically all (can I say that or will you object to that too? Or should I say "many", or cut it down to "some", or "a few"?) bike manufacturers and battery manufacturers would recommend an AGM, so for one thing, it won't leak acid, even if upside down. But you can go against others recommendations and do as you want.

At one time when I first encountered you on here, I had a lot of respect for your "mechanical knowledge", but after getting to know you for almost 2 years on here, and reading your posts on 2 other forums, I have developed little or no respect for you as a person, and you did that all by yourself. I'm not the only one who has this opinion, and I can refer you to posts on here, and on the M-J and Honda Shadow forums too where you have alienated numerous participants in those forums and had been threatened with expulsion.
You seem to revel in picking out a single word or two instead of understanding the gist of the thread, what the writer is trying to say. You will search for that one word someone writes and attack them for it, sometimes even taking it out of context to try and make a point. You are opinionated, sometimes nasty, condescending, confrontational, argumentative, and bullying. You have to realize that these are forums where people write things, they are not engaged in direct oral conversation. You should try and listen to what people are trying to say, not jump on a single word or two to try and make some one-upsmanship Brownie points and try and be the winner of the conversation. Cut people a little slack, and I'm not referring to me.
Your turn, but no further answer from me, so have a field day with your response.

[Sarris]

Who really gives a shit?

:lol: