Draggin pegs at the Dragon

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by alanmcorcoran

but I'm wondering if I'd be a little quicker just with the passage of time. (It's not something I have specifically set out to practice, I just seem to have got more comfortable leaning the things over.)

Thoughts?

Yes, that's usually the way it works. Practice/experience brings confidence.

How is your body positioned in relation to the vertical axis of the bike?
You have attended a MSF course (although the course seems a little suspect) and have a book on riding technique, right? What do they say about leaning......body versus bike?

[JWR]

Not likely, Mr. Attitude.

Me Mr. Attitude?????

This is the the internet where you are always right.

Riding motorcycles is the real world.

I still invite any and all to come to some of the best riding in the Eastern USA.

I will do my best to show you some great roads.

[JWR]

alanmcorcoran

Practice and riding with better riders are a big help.

Also find a good spot to watch others come around the same corner.
You will see a lot of different styles.

As you know all bikes handle quite different.
What is easy on the GZ will require effort on the Strat.

It is all about the weight and ground clearance.

[Water Warrior 2]

Did the Dragon on the 4th July weekend in 2007. Rented a KLR 650 and had a great time all weekend.

[Moedad]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

How is your body positioned in relation to the vertical axis of the bike?
You have attended a MSF course...What do they say about leaning......body versus bike?

I attended the same course as Alan (on a different weekend though). Obviously in a parking lot there's only so much they can do with beginners, but they DID cover this subject in regard to tight turns at low speed (the box), i.e. shift your butt cheek to the outside and holding the bike more upright as you lean your body to the inside. I was on a little Kawasaki Eliminator and it had a good turning radius already, but I found the technique to be helpful. The instructors didn't talk about that technique in regard to riding larger, longer curves like you'd find on canyon/mountain roads--they were more focused on lining up the turn and looking ahead at where you want to go.

[mrlmd1]

I don't know why JWR and all you are taking such offense at what Easy said about body position, body lean, and bike lean. I'm not here trying to defend him, after all he pisses me off too once in a while, but I think in this instance he was trying to offer constructive criticism or actual instruction, on the correct way to take a turn. Opinions and assholes? Where do you get that from and where do you fit in? Why can't you stand to learn something?
It's not about weight and ground clearance.
The forces that come into play around a turn include centrifugal, centripetal, friction of tires on the road, gravity, the mass of the bike and rider, and the speed, and they all have to be balanced to stay upright and on the correct course or path around the turn. The bike has a better grip on the road surface when it is upright, and the more upright it can be around the turn, the faster and safer you can be. By leaning your body into the turn, the bike itself can be more upright. Leaning your body towards the outside of the turn by trying to keep IT upright, makes the bike have to lean over more. That makes it more prone to slide out, especially if you run over oil, gravel, wet spot, other shit in the road. etc. It's all about where the center of gravity is.
The pegs are designed to hinge and raise up if you hit the road - why do you think that is? If you hit a peg wrong it can lift the rear wheel off the road and you will leave a lot of skin and paint on the asphalt. You can ride the way you want, or you can do it the right way and be a little safer as well as faster if you do it the correct way. It's written in all the instructional books, it's all over the internet, but you do whatever you want and then don't make up an excuse if something goes wrong. Hitting a peg on this or any other cruiser bike probably means your body position was incorrect and should not be looked at as something macho. It's a warning. Watch the high speed racers on the track - they have their whole body leaned over to try and keep the bike leaning less, for traction around the turn. They may scrape a knee but never any part of the bike, and I know it's a different kind of bike. They move the center of gravity inside with their body lean instead of with the bike lean.

Your Head and NECK should be vertical, your BODY should be leaned into the turn, especially at higher speeds, to keep the bike more upright and have better traction on the road.
And Alan - same thing. Don't take this too as a criticism, just friendly advice. Riding 70mph on a rough surface road and aggressively leaning the bike more?
You should be leaning your body into the turn more and trying and keep the bike more upright, 'cause you are aware of what can happen when you lose traction on the tires. It's obviously going to lean around the turn, but maybe a few degrees less if you lean your body mass to the inside of the turn, thereby having a better grip on the road.
And Moedad, the slow speed tight turn is not even close to what we are talking about here. You are shifting your weight to the outside in that instance to keep
balance and keep the bike from falling over with the wheel at full lock, and using the back brake to keep the bike up. This is with wheel or handlebar steering, not with the countersteering at speed, and there is no problem with losing traction on the road doing a low speed 2-3mph tight turn. This is a totally different situation. The bike has to lean with the wheel at full lock, it will never be upright.

Now you can all crap on me too.

[alanmcorcoran]

I didn't think I took Easy to task for his advice on the leaning. I took the same class as Moe, and what they said in his they said in mine - but it was in the context of the "box" test, one that I freely admit I could probably not pass two times out of three.

The degree to which I am leaning the bike now, vs. last year say, is more like the difference between "hardly at all" to a "little bit more than before." I don't think I have ever scraped the pegs on the GZ. I did scape the footrest once on the Strat, doing a simple right hand turn at lowish speed - it only happened the one time, and I'm not even sure how/why. I think maybe the road was slanted or there was a weird dip or something. I agree - it's not something I want to be doing regularly. Kind of surprises you when it happens.

I have seen the motocrossers and racers with their knees out and down, and trust me, their bikes are over WAY further than I have ever had mine. (They also seem to have much bigger tires... do they?)

Are you and Easy..... dating?

[mrlmd1]

NO, and don't even suggest that! :twisted: He said he was coming to Florida, I'm going to have to take a vacation back up to NY/NJ so I don't bump into him.

Those bikes ARE way over, they also have much better tires, different rubber (stickier compound), a smoother track, sometimes banked a little, but the only reason they can go that fast (100-150mph on the turns) is because the rider has his weight right off the ground. If the rider tried to stay upright, the bike would be on it's side sliding off the track. It's like watching those road racers in the sidecars leaning way over - shifting the center of gravity off to the side, or hiking out in a small sailboat to keep it from going over. Same idea, different application.
I'm not saying don't lean the bike -the bike MUST lean in the turn, it's the geometry of the steering linkage - what was trying to be said, again, is that is YOU lean to the inside, then the BIKE doesn't have to AS MUCH in the turn, so the traction of the wheels on the road is better, plus you don't hit a peg or something else to upset you and/or the bike.
You may have scraped the peg on the Strat because it could have been leaned over too far making a very slow turn, so if you had shifted your weight, like by sliding your ass to the outside of the seat during the turn, or putting your weight on the outside foot peg, you may have kept the bike more upright and not scraped. Again, shifting the center of gravity. It's basically opposite for low and high speed turns, kapish?

Maybe he'll take a trip out to CA and see you guys out there. :biggrin: :poke2: :lol:

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

Maybe he'll take a trip out to CA and see you guys out there. :biggrin:

Come on up to Atlanta in 2 weeks. I promise not to bite. If I do, maybe someone could recommend a good doctor! :neener:

[mrlmd1]

Like a shrink? :techy: :lol: