Start-up Problem

[bjrscj]

Originally Posted by alantf

That sounds like the starter relay doing what it's supposed to do. If the starter relay is clicking, then this is opening the path for the current to go from the battery to the starter motor. Next step is to get a meter, & while someone holds the starter button in, test what voltage (if any) you're getting between the lug on the starter motor (with the rubber boot pulled off) & a good earth (ground?) on the chassis. Let us know what you find.

Have you tested the battery voltage between the battery terminals, and the starter relay (live side) to chassis. If you got the same result with the car battery (no start), this leads me to believe that the problem lies somewhere between the battery & the starter relay.

I have not tried that yet. A few questions before I check this out.

1. If this would be the problem, would it be relatively easy to fix, or would I probably take it to a mechanic? I've done simple things like take the carb apart, but I can't get too involved in things, and don't want to waste the time if the mechanic has to fix it anyway.

2. I found the starter motor in the manual, but it doesn't give the location. Is it by the starter relay (which is given in the manual)?

3. For the relay, it told me to take out the negative terminal on the battery, then test it with a 12v charge. How would it get the charge if the battery isn't hooked up? You just told me to connect the negative end to the frame/ground, so is that just as acceptable?

[mrlmd1]

If you put the Pos. lead from the car battery directly on to the starter Pos terminal, and the Neg. from the battery to a ground anywhere on the bike, you can see if the starter motor is any good. The motor should turn over if directly connected to the battery. If the starter turns at normal speed, then there is something wrong between the starter relay and the starter itself and could be as simple as a really corroded dirty or loose connection.

[alantf]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

If the starter turns at normal speed, then there is something wrong between the starter relay and the starter itself and could be as simple as a really corroded dirty or loose connection.

Thing is............ Between the starter relay & the starter motor there is only the cable - with a connection at the relay, & a connection at the starter motor. So in this case the problem can only be at one end or the other. That's why I suggested the tests that I did. I agree that mrmld1's suggestion is valid, though (to prove the starter motor). The starter motor is at the front of the bike, on the right as you sit on the bike, at the front of the engine, & is the cylindrical thingy with the thick cable going to it. There is a rubber boot covering the terminal. The other end of this cable goes straight to the starter relay. You can see the terminal at the relay end of the cable by removing the right side panel, then take the white plastic cover off the relay that you will then see.

If you connect the car battery to the starter motor (+ve) & chassis (-ve) & prove that the starter turns, then check the connections at the starter motor & the relay. If these are o.k., then the problem is either the battery, or between battery & relay, like I said. I don't think the problem is one of the safety switches, or the relay wouldn't pull in (click), so it's a straight circuit from battery to relay, & from relay to starter motor.

Good hunting & keep us updated so we can work out the next step.

[Gz Rider]

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[Water Warrior 2]

Originally Posted by Gz Rider

Sounds right. Next issue....

If you choose to follow the advice regarding jumping straight to the starter motor, I would think you would have to be sure the bike was in neutral. This system would bypass all the safety systems of the kill switch, the kick stand switch and the clutch. If you jump straight to the starter and the bike is in gear, the bike would lurch forward I would think.

Oh yeah, that would a heck of a safety plan. Might save some damage and possible injury. I will add this for safety if you want to be very sure of no oops. Tie the clutch lever to the grip with a strip of velcro.

[bjrscj]

OK. When I hooked the battery up from my car battery to frame and starter motor, the motor turned nicely. I don't have a tool to check the voltage, but I will be getting one tomorrow. So the problem seems to be either the battery itself, or the connection between the battery and the relay, correct? I'll check that tomorrow and let you know if that's the problem. I feel like I'm finally making some progress. Thanks!

[bjrscj]

I got a multimeter and checked the voltage on the battery. The battery, after sitting for five or six days in cold weather, was sitting around 11.8 volts. Unfortunately, it was too dark and cold to check the relay connection. A few questions though. It tells me to apply 12 volts to the terminals, but how do I do that with a multimeter? Also, I see four slots for wires on the relay connection, but I only see three wires coming out. Is that normal?

[alantf]

Originally Posted by bjrscj

It tells me to apply 12 volts to the terminals, but how do I do that with a multimeter?

You don't A multimeter will only record a voltage that is applied to any terminals. I think that what it actually means is - use a multimeter to prove that there is 12v at the terminals. I think you've already proved that by hearing the relay click. All the relay does is to use a small current that goes via the starter button to energise a solenoid coil in the relay, which in turn closes a heavy duty contact to apply the 80A or so that the starter motor needs. This is a (very) simplified example.[attachment=0:3lgwgs2k]img022.jpg[/attachment:3lgwgs2k]

[Gz Rider]

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[alantf]

Originally Posted by Gz Rider

he is showing 11.8 volts from the battery which, in my opinion means the battery is not properly holding a charge.

I agree that this is an issue, but he also said that it wouldn't start from a car battery, so it may be two problems - a battery problem plus a circuit problem.