Engine Seized - Please Help

PeterSeymour · 11-26-2010, 01:06 AM

Hello I have used this forum many times as a reference and had been meaning to register for a while. I purchased a 1999 GZ 250 about 4 months ago as my first motorcycle. I was hooked from the first ride and have put just over 2000 miles on the bike already. Unfortunately on my latest camping trip out to California I encountered some engine trouble early in the morning. After calling family friends I was assured it was just a fuel issue, and I should keep going to town. The oil gage on my bike, however, had noticeable condensation on the inside, though it still appeared to show that it was full of oil. I concluded that the gage was probably mucked up or somehow fouled and decided to add a quart just in case, and head into town. The engine appeared to run much better after the extra quart so once in town I bought another and added an additional half quart, just to be sure it had at least 1.5 quarts in the engine. After fully checking the engine for leaks and idling it while looking for smoke I started limping home, driving conservatively on back streets. I trained my left mirror on the muffler and stopped periodically to check for any apparent leak but I only had about 110 miles to go so I thought I could make it home. After about 60 of those miles, however, I heard a loud clunk and the rear while immediately locked up. There was no warning sign at all, no sputtering or smoke, but I was able to recover from the resulting skid safely and come to a stop. I again examined the bike to find no serious leaks and determined (after a long time examining the gage with a flashlight) that there was at least some oil sloshing around in the bottom of the engine. The engine however was at least mostly seized as I was only able to partially turn it over by pushing it up to speed and dropping the clutch (after doing this the starter would spin a little rather than just click).

I have a couple questions I was hoping to find answers to here, first of all what could prevent oil from getting into the engine (failed oil pump?). Second how could 1.5 quarts of oil (or at least a significant amount) burn up/leak in about an hour without any clearly noticeable leak or smoke? And finally now that I have a seized engine and very limited money do I try to fix the engine, buy a new engine entirely, or part out the bike and put that money towards a new one? I do work in a machine shop and have access to a lot of tools but I have very limited experience dealing with small engine repairs of that level, especially when there may be another underlying problem that cause the oil leak/burning.

I am sorry that is a lot to read but I am really desperate and I hope that someone here might have answers. All in all I am just grateful I made it home from the middle of the desert back to Phoenix and survived a potential crash - even if my motorcycle is shot. Still, not exactly the Thanksgiving I was hoping for. Thanks in advance for your help and assistance.

blaine · 11-26-2010, 01:44 AM

Welcome.Sorry to hear of your troubles. :sad: It sounds like your oil pump may have stopped pumping oil.Can you elaborate on your original problem.You stated maybe you had a fuel problem. :??: Is it possible that fuel flooded into the engine diluting the oil,which would also cause the engine to seize?You would probably be better off looking for a good used engine,it would be cheaper than trying to rebuild a badly damaged engine. :itsokay:

Water Warrior 2 · 11-26-2010, 06:08 AM

Ouch, sounds like a very unhappy bike. Don't want to comment on the fuel issue except to say that the bike was able to run if only with some problems. The extra oil would be my main concern. Here is what I would do. Drain all the oil out. Then just put in the required amount and no more. Remove the spark plug and ground it to the engine. Using the starter just see if the engine will spin over freely. If so, put in a new plug and try to start the engine. If the engine is damaged you will know soon enough. I have a suspicion you managed to hydralock the engine somehow with all the extra oil. Typically we hear of hydralocking due to water or fuel in the combustion chamber but I an thinking the engine did accomplish this when the piston could not compress oil on the downstroke after the excessive oil had expanded and /or foamed up. Maybe I am giving you false hope but you can do this for less than a couple happy meals just to start the road to recovery. Good luck.

Easy Rider · 11-26-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Warrior

. The extra oil would be my main concern. .

This sad, SAD story just is another illustration of what bad things can happen when you start taking wild guesses trying to fix something that you really know nothing about. Adding extra oil when all indications were that it was already FULL was NOT a wise thing to do.

Now that it is locked up, your only practical recourse probably is to sell it for parts.
A Suzuki dealer would probably haul it in and confirm the gravity of the problem for $100 or so......depending on where you live.

PeterSeymour · 11-26-2010, 03:29 PM

Thank you for the replies. I woke up today and decided to figure out, to the best of my ability what had happened. After hours of stripping down the bike I am only more confused than I was before. First of all I was able to turn the motor over about one full revolution by putting it in first gear and pushing. At either extreme of that rotation I heard a metal clunk coming from the bottom left side of the engine housing. I am not sure what that could be but I am pretty sure the piston is not at least completely seized in the cylinder. After doing a partial rotation like that the starter motor will spin the engine again only about one full rotation. I also found that in any gear, even with the clutch pulled in and disengaged, the bike was extremely difficult to push, but while in neutral I can push it just fine. I have no idea if this is related to the clutch, transmission, or still some engine problem. Also given what I read here I expected that my oil addition was the real problem and I did this to myself. When I drained the oil, however, I got out almost exactly 1.5 quarts. In total I added 2 quarts yesterday (1.5 before the engine "seized" and another half afterwards). So I am assuming that yesterday the issue really was related to low oil and I lost approximately a half quart driving the 56 miles back to the city. I also confirmed by draining it that the glass on my engine does not properly show the oil level (because it still shows full) and I should absolutely have known that before.

Anyways now I am stuck and really don't know what else I should do. I guess I may try grounding the sparkplug, putting new oil in it, and then trying to start it. But if there is an issue with the crankshaft, transmission, or clutch I don't think that doing so will have much of an impact. Again I appreciate all the help, I ultimately want to try to save the bike because it is in great shape and I love riding it, but a reality check may be what I really need given the severity of these issues.

Water Warrior 2 · 11-26-2010, 04:38 PM

Just for confirmation. Are you checking the oil level with the bike in a vertical position ? It will be inaccurate leaning on the side stand.

PeterSeymour · 11-26-2010, 05:58 PM

I was checking it with the bike balanced vertically and a flashlight. I have drained all the oil out now and the gage still seems to indicate that there is oil in the engine so I don't think it is reliable at all.

blaine · 11-26-2010, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterSeymour

I was checking it with the bike balanced vertically and a flashlight. I have drained all the oil out now and the gage still seems to indicate that there is oil in the engine so I don't think it is reliable at all.

It is more of a sight glass than a gage,with the glass showing the level of oil.If the glass is stained or damaged in some way so that it is not clear,it will be hard to see the level of the oil in the sight glass.

:cool:

Water Warrior 2 · 11-26-2010, 07:32 PM

Bummer about the sight glass. Have you removed the spark plug yet and will it turn over with the plug removed ?

PeterSeymour · 11-27-2010, 04:57 PM

I have done a lot of work since I last posted. First of all I did confirm that with the sparkplug out it will only turn over 1 rotation and a loud metal clunk accompanies either extreme of this rotation. After I drained the oil I decided to remove the crankcase cover on the lower right portion of the engine. I meticulously checked every portion of the engine and transmission and with only one exception everything seemed to be in perfect shape and still very well lubricated. I could not however fully see the cylinder or piston (only enough to see it move the single rotation). The one issue I found, which I think may be the whole problem, is the black plastic guard on the cam chain. The guard on the right side was in place and seemed fine, but there was no guard on the left side of the cam chain and a broken piece of the plastic guard was sticking out of the engine upper alongside the cam chain. I am wondering if this plastic piece broke and got lodged somewhere in the cam drivetrain could that cause the engine to effectively seize and allow this single rotation that I am experiencing? I have not tried removing the plastic piece as I will have more knowledgable friends take a look first. I have included pictures of what I am seeing and I appreciate everyone's help. I am actually a little hopeful now that the bike may be salvageable and I have to say even this tiny one cylinder engine is a marvel of engineering once you really take a look at it - I can't believe people actually design these things from the ground up and make them work so well.

I also managed to clean the sludge of the sight glass by the way, now it seems to work just fine.

11-26-2010, 01:06 AM	#1
PeterSeymour Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 11	Engine Seized - Please Help Hello I have used this forum many times as a reference and had been meaning to register for a while. I purchased a 1999 GZ 250 about 4 months ago as my first motorcycle. I was hooked from the first ride and have put just over 2000 miles on the bike already. Unfortunately on my latest camping trip out to California I encountered some engine trouble early in the morning. After calling family friends I was assured it was just a fuel issue, and I should keep going to town. The oil gage on my bike, however, had noticeable condensation on the inside, though it still appeared to show that it was full of oil. I concluded that the gage was probably mucked up or somehow fouled and decided to add a quart just in case, and head into town. The engine appeared to run much better after the extra quart so once in town I bought another and added an additional half quart, just to be sure it had at least 1.5 quarts in the engine. After fully checking the engine for leaks and idling it while looking for smoke I started limping home, driving conservatively on back streets. I trained my left mirror on the muffler and stopped periodically to check for any apparent leak but I only had about 110 miles to go so I thought I could make it home. After about 60 of those miles, however, I heard a loud clunk and the rear while immediately locked up. There was no warning sign at all, no sputtering or smoke, but I was able to recover from the resulting skid safely and come to a stop. I again examined the bike to find no serious leaks and determined (after a long time examining the gage with a flashlight) that there was at least some oil sloshing around in the bottom of the engine. The engine however was at least mostly seized as I was only able to partially turn it over by pushing it up to speed and dropping the clutch (after doing this the starter would spin a little rather than just click). I have a couple questions I was hoping to find answers to here, first of all what could prevent oil from getting into the engine (failed oil pump?). Second how could 1.5 quarts of oil (or at least a significant amount) burn up/leak in about an hour without any clearly noticeable leak or smoke? And finally now that I have a seized engine and very limited money do I try to fix the engine, buy a new engine entirely, or part out the bike and put that money towards a new one? I do work in a machine shop and have access to a lot of tools but I have very limited experience dealing with small engine repairs of that level, especially when there may be another underlying problem that cause the oil leak/burning. I am sorry that is a lot to read but I am really desperate and I hope that someone here might have answers. All in all I am just grateful I made it home from the middle of the desert back to Phoenix and survived a potential crash - even if my motorcycle is shot. Still, not exactly the Thanksgiving I was hoping for. Thanks in advance for your help and assistance. Login or Register to Remove Ads
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11-26-2010, 01:44 AM	#2
blaine Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: P.E.I. Canada Posts: 3,784	Re: Engine Seized - Please Help Welcome.Sorry to hear of your troubles. :sad: It sounds like your oil pump may have stopped pumping oil.Can you elaborate on your original problem.You stated maybe you had a fuel problem. :??: Is it possible that fuel flooded into the engine diluting the oil,which would also cause the engine to seize?You would probably be better off looking for a good used engine,it would be cheaper than trying to rebuild a badly damaged engine. :itsokay: __________________ If at first you do succeed, try not to look surprised.
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11-26-2010, 06:08 AM	#3
Water Warrior 2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Squamish B.C Canada Posts: 11,409	Re: Engine Seized - Please Help Ouch, sounds like a very unhappy bike. Don't want to comment on the fuel issue except to say that the bike was able to run if only with some problems. The extra oil would be my main concern. Here is what I would do. Drain all the oil out. Then just put in the required amount and no more. Remove the spark plug and ground it to the engine. Using the starter just see if the engine will spin over freely. If so, put in a new plug and try to start the engine. If the engine is damaged you will know soon enough. I have a suspicion you managed to hydralock the engine somehow with all the extra oil. Typically we hear of hydralocking due to water or fuel in the combustion chamber but I an thinking the engine did accomplish this when the piston could not compress oil on the downstroke after the excessive oil had expanded and /or foamed up. Maybe I am giving you false hope but you can do this for less than a couple happy meals just to start the road to recovery. Good luck. Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

11-26-2010, 03:29 PM	#5
PeterSeymour Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 11	Re: Engine Seized - Please Help Thank you for the replies. I woke up today and decided to figure out, to the best of my ability what had happened. After hours of stripping down the bike I am only more confused than I was before. First of all I was able to turn the motor over about one full revolution by putting it in first gear and pushing. At either extreme of that rotation I heard a metal clunk coming from the bottom left side of the engine housing. I am not sure what that could be but I am pretty sure the piston is not at least completely seized in the cylinder. After doing a partial rotation like that the starter motor will spin the engine again only about one full rotation. I also found that in any gear, even with the clutch pulled in and disengaged, the bike was extremely difficult to push, but while in neutral I can push it just fine. I have no idea if this is related to the clutch, transmission, or still some engine problem. Also given what I read here I expected that my oil addition was the real problem and I did this to myself. When I drained the oil, however, I got out almost exactly 1.5 quarts. In total I added 2 quarts yesterday (1.5 before the engine "seized" and another half afterwards). So I am assuming that yesterday the issue really was related to low oil and I lost approximately a half quart driving the 56 miles back to the city. I also confirmed by draining it that the glass on my engine does not properly show the oil level (because it still shows full) and I should absolutely have known that before. Anyways now I am stuck and really don't know what else I should do. I guess I may try grounding the sparkplug, putting new oil in it, and then trying to start it. But if there is an issue with the crankshaft, transmission, or clutch I don't think that doing so will have much of an impact. Again I appreciate all the help, I ultimately want to try to save the bike because it is in great shape and I love riding it, but a reality check may be what I really need given the severity of these issues. Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

11-26-2010, 04:38 PM	#6
Water Warrior 2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Squamish B.C Canada Posts: 11,409	Re: Engine Seized - Please Help Just for confirmation. Are you checking the oil level with the bike in a vertical position ? It will be inaccurate leaning on the side stand.
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11-26-2010, 05:58 PM	#7
PeterSeymour Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 11	Re: Engine Seized - Please Help I was checking it with the bike balanced vertically and a flashlight. I have drained all the oil out now and the gage still seems to indicate that there is oil in the engine so I don't think it is reliable at all.
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11-26-2010, 07:32 PM	#9
Water Warrior 2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Squamish B.C Canada Posts: 11,409	Re: Engine Seized - Please Help Bummer about the sight glass. Have you removed the spark plug yet and will it turn over with the plug removed ?
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11-27-2010, 04:57 PM	#10
PeterSeymour Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 11	Re: Engine Seized - Please Help I have done a lot of work since I last posted. First of all I did confirm that with the sparkplug out it will only turn over 1 rotation and a loud metal clunk accompanies either extreme of this rotation. After I drained the oil I decided to remove the crankcase cover on the lower right portion of the engine. I meticulously checked every portion of the engine and transmission and with only one exception everything seemed to be in perfect shape and still very well lubricated. I could not however fully see the cylinder or piston (only enough to see it move the single rotation). The one issue I found, which I think may be the whole problem, is the black plastic guard on the cam chain. The guard on the right side was in place and seemed fine, but there was no guard on the left side of the cam chain and a broken piece of the plastic guard was sticking out of the engine upper alongside the cam chain. I am wondering if this plastic piece broke and got lodged somewhere in the cam drivetrain could that cause the engine to effectively seize and allow this single rotation that I am experiencing? I have not tried removing the plastic piece as I will have more knowledgable friends take a look first. I have included pictures of what I am seeing and I appreciate everyone's help. I am actually a little hopeful now that the bike may be salvageable and I have to say even this tiny one cylinder engine is a marvel of engineering once you really take a look at it - I can't believe people actually design these things from the ground up and make them work so well. I also managed to clean the sludge of the sight glass by the way, now it seems to work just fine.
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