Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Hi, I just bought my 2005 GZ with 5,008 miles and just got the title,registration,taxes done today.

Took it to get inspected: only thing was when selecting left or right, both signals flash but the LEFT or RIGHT one shows up more bright than the other one. Pick left, right lights up too though dimmer

The other day it looked fine, I didn't notice they both flashed.

Hopefully this is a simple fix?

I had a 150cc scooter for a year and 3,300 miles and had to fix a lot of gremlins with that being brand new from china.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I'm looking through the repair pdf off of here in the meantime.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

fix the ground

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Yeah, sounds like a ground is weak and it's searching for one through the other side.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Just an idea, but it could also have a too high wattage bulb in the turn signal indicator light. Because the current through that bulb also goes through the "other" signal indicator.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I guess this points me to: take apart the turn signals and check wattage of bulbs. wear gloves and clean with alcohol if I do touch it with fingers.

I'll look for the ground wire and make sure it leads to the frame to be grounded.

I was kind of hoping on hearing something like "oh yeah that happened to me once, I did this and this and it fixed the problem".

I never would have guess grounding has such a significant impact on lights working right.

I just want to get this fixed so I can start riding to work!

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Another thing I want to fix is the turn signal indicator light on the instrument cluster.

That would be nice, for the time being I go by feel when I move the switch left, off, right.

Neutral light works at least

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

That can also be your problem with the directional signals.


:)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Ckeck the wattage of the bulbs. Clean out any corrosion in the sockets as well as the bulb bases. Poor grounds and corrosion can cause all sorts of silly stuff to happen.
Keep in mind the front signals are also running lights with 2 elements and the rear are only one element for signals only.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Ok I'll start here. This sounds like a good starting point.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I checked the bulb 12V 21/5

I tried starting with kick stand down and it starts up. So I'm thinking that shouldn't happen its supposed to be up to be able to start. I had it in neutral and pulled in clutch

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

No, you're supposed to be able to start with the stand down. The safety switch cuts the engine if you put it in gear with the stand down. This is so that you can't ride off with the stand down. :)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

ok that's good to know. Wires went from the turn signal lights to the headlight casing. So I guess the rest is inside there. Its been raining and didn't have much dry time outside to really do anything but check the bulbs and put them back in.

I checked all the fuses in the fuse box and the 20amp one on the right near the battery was good.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

There is a way with one of those pokey electrical testers to test resistance to see if your ground is working. Alan will have to detail that or just read the instructions on your volt meter. But it's fairly easy from what I recall, I just couldn't tell you how to set it up or what to look for without doing it again. If the ground isn't solid, the polarity will let you know.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I have a volt tester, somewhere it talked about testing the side/stand relay A through H or something put 12volts to 2 places then test two other places. Yeah whatever.....

This is keeping me from getting an inspection sticker! it would be different if I was just being anal about wanting it to look right. It works fine to me but to that inspector they both blink and its not hazard lights on. I don't think this bike has a hazard button.

Its raining today still so I wouldn't be riding tonight to work anyway.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

[attachment=0:rvbti8kl]img002.jpg[/attachment:rvbti8kl]They say a picture's worth a thousand words, so I've done a little sketch. With the meter set to ohms (say, the 200 ohm scale) you should get a reading of just above zero( i.e. no resistance to earth.) I say "just above" zero, because the meter will read the residual resistance of the meter & leads.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Do Dis First.


:)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

YES !!! :plus1:


a) both of your turn lights blink
b) your turn signal indicator bulb doesn't work

Conclusion: there is a short at your turn signal indicator!

Because, if the turn signal indicator would be just "out" (dead) there is no current going through it, so then the 'other' signal indicator would not blink at all.
But, since it is shorting, both turn signal lights blink.

To remove: work the turn signal indicator assembly up, through the round hole, until you can work the lens out of the black rubber. The, pull the rubber down through the hole. Roll the rubber back to get to the bulb.
The short could be "internal" to the bulb, or at the bottom of the bulb, or at the wires outside the assembly (small chance), so just pull the bulb and see what happens.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Yes, it's a tie between both circuits and can cause a feedback. Just replace the bulb and see what happens. :2tup:


:)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

:2tup: So far I took the bulb out it seems to work normal now. Ill see in the morning with a new bulb I'll pick up at advance auto in the morning.

Damn, I might have been able to pass inspection just pulling out the bulb. Though I'm not holding my breath either, its dark out and only with the motorcycle lights on it seems to have been the problem!

Wow this was really simple to do. Only thing though the place I got inspected, Tread Quarters has only one inspector and he said in advance he was not going to be there Wednesday, sucks its Wednesday now after midnight.
Ahh be patient and wait til Thursday and spend 1$ or spend another $12 at a different inspection station.

I'll wait another day, it will be my luck it will rain Friday when I return to work.

Thanks everyone for your inputs and help. I'll try the new bulb and I'll post here the results and go from there.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I have advance, autozone, and an O'Reilly autoparts stores within a few miles.

I tried searching for 12volt 3.4watt bulb or even turn signal indicator bulb. Though indicator comes up with some motorcycle looking replacements.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Simple? Yes. Always try to KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. When trouble shooting you start at the simplest and work your way up. :2tup:


:)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Leave it out and get the inspection (as long as it's not required). Then check out the vids below. I like how the half of the light flashes on the side you're turning.

[youtube:1lblrwot]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn5DoYWL0tA[/youtube:1lblrwot]

[youtube:1lblrwot]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqO7U92Wp84[/youtube:1lblrwot]


:)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Yep I'm aware of the KISS concept just didn't know taking out or changing the turn signal indicator bulb would be easy.

Mole2 those videos came up as just an ! in the middle. I'll look on u tube

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I got a new Sylvania 3.4watt mini bulb and it works in the socket.

BUT, it still same problem lights alternate.

Maybe its the boot part

I set up an appointment tomorrow morning at the closest motorcycle mechanic shop a Harley Davidson dealership 8 miles away.

I started taking off the headlight to check out the connections inside earlier and I'm having trouble putting it back together right. It came off with a jiggle and some screws removed but I found one had a spring came out. I put that back in along with the white plastic part, spring was a pain to put back in its spot but I got it.

Just the headlight part is not on right just got held with a screw to not go anywhere. Going with my woman to get her another tattoo on her foot soon so I'll be at it maybe later. Wish I didn't take off the head light cover, I wouldn't have to deal with it right now, putting it back in right.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I think you've removed the wrong screws. The screws with springs are for adjusting the direction of the beam, not removing the headlight.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

That's what that for. I'll be trying to put it back in right and get the screw lined up.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

If you look at the schematic in the service manual online here you'll see there is a lead from the right front directional and a lead from the left front directional that go to the indicator bulb. There is no ground going to that indicator bulb and there are no diodes in those leads to prevent feedback. It's quite possible that the bulb is a special bulb from the manufacturer because if you put those leads to each side of a filament there is going to be a feedback when the bulb looks for ground. It's a strange setup indeed. It's got me stumped at this point especially since if you remove the bulb the feedback goes away (according to your prior post).


:)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

If you look at the schematic in the service manual online here you'll see there is a lead from the right front directional and a lead from the left front directional that go to the indicator bulb. There is no ground going to that indicator bulb and there are no diodes in those leads to prevent feedback. It's quite possible that the bulb is a special bulb from the manufacturer because if you put those leads to each side of a filament there is going to be a feedback when the bulb looks for ground. It's a strange setup indeed. It's got me stumped at this point especially since if you remove the bulb the feedback goes away (according to your prior post).


:)[/quote]

Sorry about that, I had thought that, but I was wrong. When I took out the bad bulb I couldn't tell if it did or not. I got a bulb and it works fine, just not 2 filaments in there just one. As it works now the indicator bulb lights up the same in left or right position but in the middle it stops. That's good enough for me.

I don't know where to readily find that 2 filament split bulb. That boot might be shorting still, I guess I don't know. Maybe just having the right bulb keeps it from trying to ground on the opposite turn signal bulb.

At any rate I have an appointment with that Harley Davidson shop at 930am in the morning so hopefully its money worth spent if its a deeper problem.

I haven't gone through all that wiring in the headlight housing so it could very well be in there or wherever it gets grounded to the frame.

I skimmed past that second video earlier. Usually I'm a do it yourselfer for saving money but on this one I'm going with what my better judgement tells me not to and to listen to my woman- go take it to a shop to get it fixed.

Goodnight its midnight thirty here.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

That's the way it is supposed to work.

Ok, just to make sure I understand you. The directionals are working properly AND the indicator is working properly. The indicator just flashes, it doesn't indicate which side. That is how it's designed. The Youtube videos show you how to have it work showing which side is blinking.


:)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Yep that is correct. The signals just flash alternating, weaker on the unselected side. Leaving soon for the HD shop, I feel like I might get the run around because I don't have a Harley. I don't know I'm going to say aren't too many motorcycle mechanics around here. There is a BMW motorcycle I'd feel even more uncomfortable going there.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I've done you a simplified drawing of the turn signal circuit. Forget about the marker lights for the moment, because they are fed from the lighting circuit, and just use the same ground as the turn signal filament of the bulb. I've put in some arrows to show what happens when the switch is pushed one way. The current flows through the switch, then to the front & rear bulb (in this case, the bulbs at the bottom of the drawing) The current carries on to one side of the warning light, and returns by passing through the front & rear bulbs of the opposite side signals. When the switch is put the other way, the current flows to the other bulbs, and flows in the opposite direction through the warning light. This is why it's essential to get the correct wattage bulbs, so that everything works in harmony. Also, all grounds must be perfect, to allow the current to flow in the correct path.[attachment=0:5wkzhaqg]img003.jpg[/attachment:5wkzhaqg]

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Well it was worth a try going to that Harley shop. Even though they are a Certified Inspection Station with that sign and all they DO NOT WORK on IMPORTS. At least the guy was nice about it and told me another place nearby I could go.

Walking outside there was an old man about 70-80 and was standing there looking at my bike and shook my hand.

He helped me and took off the headlight and checked all the connections. Checked all over the bike taking some panels off and looking for that bad ground.

Must have spent 45min to an hour checking stuff. And told me of a good place to go and how to get there. I thanked him multiple times. And started up bike and rode down the rode about a mile or so and.....

Engine died I must have been in too high of gear and downshifted but fail and ended up pushing it to the nearest gas station.

Asked people if they had jumper cables and nobody did. Called my girlfriend who came by with my jumper cables I know work. And no luck at all. I had ignition on POS to POS and NEG to NEG. Then remembered that one of them negatives got to go to the frame. Still no luck.

So I'm cooling off at home with my bike at a gas station, going to drive back there and try again with my car. And move my bike so it doesn't get towed. I don't know how old the battery is but to be sure I'm buying a new battery for it, I'm not messing around. If the one on there now is good after charging I'll have a spare.

Then I can try ONCE AGAIN at a different SHOP!

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Just remember........... When jump starting the bike, THE CAR ENGINE MUST NOT BE RUNNING. The high charging current of a car with the engine running will fry a bike battery. As for the jump leads, one goes to battery +ve, and one to battery -ve. The reason being that the battery -ve is connected to ground.

BTW, if you tried to start the bike with jump leads, from a non running car, and you connected pos to pos, and neg to neg, and the bike wouldn't start, it doesn't sound like it's the battery at fault. If that was the case, the boost from the car battery should have started the bike. If you tried it with the car running, you may have have fried something, or, with luck, blown a fuse (possibly the 20A main fuse). your first step should be to ckeck the fuses.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Its been a VERY long day. I went to advance auto they had one at another, went there they looked for a half hour with 4 people looking for it.

I went to O Reilly they had one, it ended up being the wrong battery too big. That wasted 3 hours filling that battery with acid waiting and then charging for 2 hours at 1.5amps.

I tried jumpstarting again no luck- original battery, though the big battery I jerry rigged with a bungee cord to hold it in place and that turned over. I found that I had what I think was a vacuum line off of the "on,prime,reserve" petcock.

I went to a autozone they had the RIGHT one I made sure brought the original one with me to compare.
It was and this time I got home, read directions put in the acid in this battery and waited a half hour didn't even charge it. And it started up. I was glad I got the right size battery and I have it on the charger now that I got the bike safely home.

Now I get to go to work tomorrow I'm going to try this other place that is a block away that I didn't know they fixed bikes, its more of a design place. But they mainly fix dirt bikes Suzuki,yamaha,kawasaki,honda and ATVs.

Hopefully somebody can take my bike and find this bad ground that has lead to being the one of the biggest frustrations for me. :??:
Then take that $75 wrong battery and see if I can at least get store credit since its used now.

I wanted a new battery anyhow but damn this was definitely the harder way. I check online for stuff before I go places but its pretty bad when they say they have it online and don't really have it, then they say they have it at another location then they don't have it. :roll:

I'll start calling around places and checking before I drive there now, but sometimes don't have their phone number and its not too bad to just drive there.

They old man said that its a bad ground for the front turn signals, since the rear turn signals don't do it.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I got out the volt meter and tested the turn signal sockets without the bulbs with the key off.

LEFT: readings jump around from 11 to 99 pretty much double digits under 200 omms horseshoe symbol

RIGHT: readings are 1.0 , 1.3, 1.4, to 2.0 and in between omms

I tried it both ways came out the same using positive or negative tester leads.

Hope this helps someone help me

I have the battery charging disconnected to the bike or else I would have tried with the key in on position and running.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

It's probably clear to you by now, - they don't exist, i.e. not available commercially - actually the "2 filament split bulb" really doesn't exist, because:

The ones in the videos are made out of 2 white LEDs and a resistor, soldered on the base of an old bulb(you will have to crack and remove the hollow glass part, and the filament and the little glass ball under it) and then solder 2 LEDs in parallel (but opposite polarity) with a resistor (forgot how many ohms, like 500, see 2nd video) in series onto the two leftover bulb wires. An hour or so of tinkering. A little piece of thin cardboard in between them takes care of the left/right half of the lens being lit.

The two LEDS set up this way take advantage of the current going opposite ways when left vs. right turn signals are activated. For beginners, LED = Light Emitting Diode, where Diode = electric one-way valve.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

When I watched that 2nd video where the guy tells how to do it I thought they got made and he just liked making them or wanted to show how to make one. But its clear now nobody makes them.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

my supervisor at work told me I should just make a ground, just splice the ground into the current one and to a bolt to the frame.

I'm going to try this

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I went to another shop the guy told me it would be $55 a signal and he couldn't get to it until Monday.

$110 :roll: Yeah right like I'm paying that. I'd pay that to replace the rear tire including cost of the tire and inner tube, but not this. Going to try making my own ground wire off the ground wires on the signals. Just a strip the original ground wire and wrap the new ground wire to that and find a good spot on the frame for it like a bolt.