Start-up Problem
 

UPDATE:

So I checked the hose, and fuel came out just fine. So that's ruled out.

I didn't have all the tools to get the spark plug out, but I was able to start the bike. I pressed the starter while turning the throttle, and it managed to start. The problem is it would start to die as soon as I let off the throttle. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a spark plug become unnecessary once the chain reaction is started? I am under the impression that the explosions in the engine and the heat generated there mean the spark plug is only used to start the bike up. If that's correct, it seems like the carburetor is the next logical step in the chain.

If it is the carb, do you think getting gasoline additive would work if I can get the fuel to pump through again as I was able to tonight? Or do you think it would just be a waste of money and I should manually take it apart? Thanks again for all your insight.


ORIGINAL:

I've got a 2003 and it's been running great. However, after the weekend, I went to start up the bike, and it won't start. It turns very strongly, but it won't catch. It's sounds like the engines fine but the gas won't ignite and give that nice low rumble (well, low compared to just turning). Is this a starter issue? My only guess is that it rained for a few days and I didn't have a chance to cover my bike. Could that even affect it at all? That's the only thing out of the ordinary that happened recently. Thanks for your help!

Re: Start-up Problem
 

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Re: Start-up Problem
 

One way to check the vacuum hose is to try starting in "prime". If the bike runs o.k. it's definitely a vacuum hose problem, as prime doesn't need a vacuum for fuel to flow. :2tup:

BTW, let it stand, in prime, for 3 or 4 seconds before trying to start, to give it time to fill the carb.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

I tried starting on reserve, and nothing happened. I also tried starting with the choke, and nothing happened. I assume that's what you meant when you said starting with "prime," but if it's not, please let me know. Every few tries I heard a low rumble, as if some gas ignited, but then it died out. I'm assuming there is a clog, like you said. I suppose I'll have to take it into the shop - unless you have any tips for fixing the problem myself.

Thanks for all your advice. I appreciate it.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

Nope "prime" is a whole other setting, there are three settings on the petcock. On, Res and Pri. The Pri is for prime obviously, set it on that one and crank it over for several seconds and see what happens.

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Re: Start-up Problem
 

Yah, I was actually just looking at the manual now. I appreciate that advice. It's a great resource. I am very new to the motorcycle world, and I do not have much mechanical experience at all. That being said, I'd like to learn, and I don't have much choice due to finances anyway. So the service manual is a great resource (although the pictures aren't that clear).

I'm going to check the prime idea and sparkplugs when I get home today. But I guess I've got one last question. If it runs on prime, the hose is obviously the issue, since the carb would be functioning. But if priming doesn't work, it could very well be the hose, but it could also still be the carb. Can I pretty much guarantee it's the carb if I don't see any cracking on the hose, or is there any way to tell 100% for sure that the hose is good before I take apart the carb?

Thanks again for all your help. It's a very overwhelming thing to me, and I appreciate your patience and insight.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

You can disconnect the fuel hose at the carb & turn the petcock to "pri" to see if you got flow down to the carb.If you have no flow,you have a issue with the hose or the petcock.
:cool: :)

Re: Start-up Problem
 

Are you using the choke properly? Even in hot weather you may need some choke to first start up the bike in the morning after it sits for a while.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

I always use the choke. Even in hot weather I find that the bike doesn't really stay started without it if it's been sitting for a few hours.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

There is also the possibility that the kickstand kill switch is malfunctioning. These are known to go bad.
Try staring the bike in neutral. The kickstand switch doesn't kill the bike unless it's in gear. (Not just pull in the clutch. Actually put the bike in neutral and see what happens.)

Also, I know it may seem like an insult, but make sure you haven't thrown the main kill switch.
I once had someone call me out the their work because they couldn't get the bike started. Turned out they flipped the kill switch and just didn't notice. :lol:

Keep us posted.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

Thanks for the advice. I did put it in neutral, and I also tried starting it with the stand up. I also tried the killswitch. In fact, the bike won't even turn without the killswitch on, and it is cranking. It's just not catching and holding. At this time, I think my best bet is to check the hoses, as I feel like I've exhausted the other routes. However, while others said rain shouldn't affect anything, when I was looking through the service manual it mentioned drying off spark plugs. We had a pretty wet weekend, so I'm hoping it's as simple as a spark plug. I just hope it's not the carburetor. I'm open to any advice you all have - even if you think it's insulting. I'm not great mechanically, and I'd rather have a broken ego than a broken bike.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

Knowing that the carb is the Achilles heel of the gz, you can bet your bottom dollar that you'll eventually find that it's the problem. :cry:

Re: Start-up Problem
 

It shouldn't take 30 seconds to pull the spark plug boot and remove the spark plug. Even the factory tool is good enough if you don't have a set of your own.

If there is any condensation in there causing your bike to not spark, you'll know it.
Also, if spark is the issue, then you should also see a fairly wet spark plug that smells like gas.

Spark Plug How-to:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1715

Re: Start-up Problem
 

UPDATE:

So I checked the hose, and fuel came out just fine. So that's ruled out.

I didn't have all the tools to get the spark plug out, but I was able to start the bike. I pressed the starter while turning the throttle, and it managed to start. The problem is it would start to die as soon as I let off the throttle. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a spark plug become unnecessary once the chain reaction is started? I am under the impression that the explosions in the engine and the heat generated there mean the spark plug is only used to start the bike up. If that's correct, it seems like the carburetor is the next logical step in the chain.

If it is the carb, do you think getting gasoline additive would work if I can get the fuel to pump through again as I was able to tonight? Or do you think it would just be a waste of money and I should manually take it apart? Thanks again for all your insight.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

You need spark to fire the mixture in the cylinder every 4th stroke.Hence the name "4 stroke engine" Intake,compression,Power (fire),exhaust.You should try some SeaFoam or berrymans b12,before you take the carb apart.
:) :cool:

Re: Start-up Problem
 

Look for your idle adjustment knob and turn it just a bit to raise the idle so that the bike stays running without you having to hold the throttle.

You can do this with your fingers IIRC.

Remove the seat, crack the throttle open so you can start the bike and then slowly adjust your idle speed until the bike will run without you doing anything.

Once you get a properly running bike, we can work some issues out to get it back to the way it was.

And for future reference, every explosion is sparked by the spark plug. All engines work this way. From your lawnmower to your car. Even diesels have glow plugs. Boom, piston down, exhaust, intake, compression-spark-boom, repeat.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

??????????????? Why remove the seat? The idle knob is the big white knob BELOW the seat, that you can get to while you're sat on the seat. :2tup:

Re: Start-up Problem
 

Uhhh....it's been awhile. :blush:

If you can access that white knob easy-peasy, then don't worry about removing the seat.

I guess I'm getting accustomed to my bike, where you have to remove almost all of the plastics/side covers in order to access any of the important stuff.

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Oldtimers disease setting in. :) :tongue:

Re: Start-up Problem
 

I used to know what that was but now I'm not sure. :lol:

Re: Start-up Problem
 

I think I'm in deep now...

I went to the store and got SeaFoam today. I got home and tried to change the spark plug, but the spark plug socket I borrowed wasn't the right size. So I decided to put the SeaFoam in anyway to see if that helped, since I couldn't get to the spark plug. Well, I put some in, but not too much, since I have a small tank and am only sitting on half a tank of gas. I dumped some in, started the bike up, and it started immediately (which makes me think the SeaFoam wasn't responsible for the initial kick, since it hadn't gone through yet).

I ran the bike for a minute and it sounded great. I shut the bike off, started to put the seat and everything back together. When I started the bike up about ten minutes later, it started great, so I decided to get my helmet and go fill the tank with gas. When I got back down, a bunch of smoke was coming from the engine. But that didn't seem like a big deal, since when I compared reviews of carb cleaners, those who used seafoam talked about how cool the smoke was that came out of the engines. But then everything hit the fan.

The engine died out. I saw a puddle under the engine. When I tried to start it up again, not only did it not start, but the cranking sounded very weak. In fact, when I pressed the starter, it drained power from the light. The headlight and the neutral light went off when I pressed the starter and the cranking died.

WHAT IS HAPPENING?!? I feel like the problems are just compounding. Any help you can give me is greatly appreciated.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

STOP! If the puddle under the bike is fuel don't try to start it.It sounds like the needle stuck in the carb and flooded the engine & air box.If the engine is flooded with fuel,it can't turn over.Shut the petcock "off".You will need to drain & change the oil, and drain the air box.You will need a 18mm socket to remove the spark plug to replace it.The carb will need to be removed for a cleaning,so this doesn't happen again.
:) :cool:

Re: Start-up Problem
 

There is no "off" on the gz petcock! Set it to "run". This, effectively, shuts it off, as it will only open with vacuum from the engine.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

OK, I have a bunch of questions about this process if you don't mind answering them.

1. If the needle is stuck, it seems to be one of the problems. Does this needle need to be replaced or do I need to do anything to fix it?

2. When you say I am supposed to clean the carb, what exactly does that mean? I've looked at the service manual so I can get the carb off, but do I take the whole carb apart and clean every square inch, or is there a specific part I'm looking to clean?

3. While I have the carb off, is there any other maintenance I should do? When reading about SeaFoam, some people talked about replacing gaskets with its use. Do you recommend any service that would be beneficial? I figure I might as well do some things while it's apart.

4. I won't be able to get to this until Sunday. Is this something that will hurt the bike if it sits there for too long? If it can't wait, I might have to cancel some other plans so I can do it earlier.

Thanks for your help. I probably won't have anything new until next week, when I can take the carb apart.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

If you install a new carb rebuild kit,a new needle will come with it.You need to take the carb off and dissemble it,for a complete cleaning.It will be fine till the weekend.The damage gets done if you try to start it.As I stated,new oil & filter drain & clean the air box & filter.I have used SeaFoam for years & have never replaced any gaskets because of it's use.Good luck.
:) :rawk:

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Are you sure you didn't leave the bike in "PRI" position on the petcock?

Re: Start-up Problem
 

Yes, the prime is not on, unfortunately. I wish I could say I didn't know and wish that was the problem.

I've been able to find a suggestion for the air filter (HIFLO-FILTRO:HAF-3503), but I only saw suggestions for carb rebuild kits from dealers. I don't have a Suzuki dealer very close to me, so does anyone have any suggestions as to getting one online? I got to here (http://motorcycle.motorcycle-superstore ... ild%20Kits), but there are a lot of choices.

I'll double check the prime when I get home again just to make sure.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

That is a good air filter and much cheaper.If you did leave it on prime,it would simplify your problem somewhat.If you are careful when dissembling & cleaning the carb you can get by without a carb kit.pay particular attention to the needle & seat.just make sure everything is perfectly clean.
:cool:

Re: Start-up Problem
 

Yeah. I was gonna say... I don't necessarily think you need a rebuild kit.
You just need a good thorough cleaning.

A similar scenario happened to someone recently;
Crankcase filled with fuel - HELP!!! - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4948&hilit=flooded+engine

Maybe reading over this experience will you help you out.

I know it seems like a big deal when you look down and your bike is leaking fluid all over the place and you can't ride it or even get it started, but it really isn't that big of a deal.

I would wait until you have maybe 4-5 hours on Saturday and knock everything out at once. We even have handy guides to cover most of what you need to do. Some them aren't exact, but reading and looking at the photos should give you an idea of what's required:

How to change your oil: - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=566

Spark plug access - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1715

Needle Shim (Carb deconstruction details and some photo references) - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15

Service manual download - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2158

If you get in a bind mid-job, PM me and I'll give you my phone number. Also, if you don't have any, this is a good time to buy yourself a nice tool set. The money you save by not taking it to a shop will more than pay for whatever tools you buy.

You'll get it knocked out,
Jonathan

Re: Start-up Problem
 

Don't forget to look under the bike. You'll find a tube with a plug in it, & a clip. This is the drain hose from the air box. Remove the clip, remove the plug, & let the tube drain. Replace the plug & clip. An essential part of routine maintenance too. :2tup:

Re: Start-up Problem
 

That was a good catch alanf...
Alot of people never clean the drain.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

It sounds like your battery is drained so you probably have to charge it - on a 2 amp charger. The bike does not charge sitting at idle and you have depleted your battery.

Is the oil level high in your site glass? ( indicating gas has gotten into the oil and increased the volume). Pull the oil fill plug and smell it also. If the volume is way up and it smells of gas do not start it until you flush it out and change the oil and filter.

How much Seafoam did you add to the gas? The usual dose is 1 oz/gal, at most 2 if you want a high dose, so your smoking and engine dying could have been from a large overdose.

What is draining on the floor, is it gas? Then your float needle valve is not closing off properly and gas is overflowing out the carb. You can empty the carb by a drain screw on the bottom before you take it off if you choose to do so for cleaning.

If you let the bike sit for a while, like a day or two with the Seafoam in there, and you drained the carb, if you don't think your oil level is high or gas is in there, and you have charged up your battery, you might try and start it again. If you are still leaking gas out of the carb overflow drain, then you have to take it off and clean it out properly. And if you do get it running, you should change the oil, oil filter, air filter, anyway.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

I didn't catch this part earlier.

Just so you know, when those guys talk about tons of smoke from using Seafoam, they are referring to treating the head. A lot people feed seafoam into the engine itself through a brake booster or something and get lots of white smoke out of the exhaust, which they claim is carbon burning off. ( I think any liquid in the engine is going to burn white and cloudy but whatever...) Simply using it as a fuel additive to clean your intake or carb should not cause that type of smoking.

I don't think anyone asked; What type of smoke was it? White? Blue? Did it smell like steam, oil, or something burned?

Re: Start-up Problem
 

- It doesn't look like I have any more liquid when I look through the site glass.
- Since I don't have a fuel gauge, I guessed as to the amount. It's very possible I went over the recommendation.
- I thought the drainage is gas, but when I looked today, it looks like there are spots in the parking spot. Gas doesn't leave spots, to my knowledge, so it seems as though what leaked out was oil. Does oil mix with the gas so as to cause this issue?

I think I'll try draining the carb and air box this weekend when I have time. My battery seems to still have enough to turn the light on and get a little kick, so I may be able to start things without charging it. However, I'm just very nervous about trying to start it without cleaning out the carb and air box if they can get ruined. I'd rather not take the chance if you think they could be destroyed. Unfortunately I JUST replaced the oil and filter 200 miles ago, but oh well.


It was white/gray smoke.

Thanks again for all the help.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

Let's back up a minute -- Is your bike leaking anything or did you just park where there are spots on the ground? Is your bike wet underneath, dripping anything? Can you tell where it is coming from? Maybe you didn't leak anything. That smoke can be from the Seafoam.
Put some fresh gas in the tank- fill it.
Charge up the battery, put the petcock on RUN, use a little choke, no throttle, and see if it starts and runs.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

There were no spots on the ground prior to me running it on seafoam. When the bike leaked, the spots were wet to the touch. Now that it's a day later, the spots are still there. I'm very certain the spots are from the bike. Unfortunately I won't be able to drain it or look at it in more detail until the weekend. I think I'm going to start with the recommendation to drain the bike, then try starting it. If it stalls out again, if I understand it correctly, it's probably the carb (the needle?), so I'll take it apart and clean it/replace parts. If you think I have something out of order, let me know.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

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I think you're on the right path, but you do need to determine where the leak is coming form and what is actually leaking.

Re: Start-up Problem
 

I got the carb off and I was actually surprised at how easy it all was. However, I didn't find anything that looked like it would be the cause of the problem in the carb. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get the float tank off, as one of the screws was stripped. But the rest of the carb looked like it was in great condition.

[attachment=8:7ynnym04]IMG_0034.JPG[/attachment:7ynnym04]

I've been rethinking whether or not the issue is the spark plug. I was able to get the spark plug out and it looked pretty nasty. When I checked my bike the last time, it was dark out, and somebody suggested that I left the petcock in the prime position. While I didn't do that, I do remember taking the fuel hose off to see if the issue was the vacuum hose, and some fuel may have come out then. If it was the spark plug and I primed the engine and gave it throttle while starting, is it possible I just flooded the engine and the problem isn't the carb? But that still wouldn't explain the smoke coming out of the engine.

Old Sparkplug: [attachment=7:7ynnym04]IMG_0038.JPG[/attachment:7ynnym04]

I did get a new sparkplug, but unfortunately the booklet at the store gave me the wrong plug reference. As you can see, while the plug I bought fits in, the other end doesn't fit in the cap.

[attachment=5:7ynnym04]IMG_0042.JPG[/attachment:7ynnym04]

I was going to check the air box, but I wasn't sure which hose it was. There is one that's at the very bottom of the motorcycle, which is connected to the carb, but the service manual seems to show it sitting up higher by the battery. Which is the correct hose to drain?

Finally, I think I did something pretty stupid. I have everything back together, but there's a hose that's sticking out and I can't figure out where it goes. From the diagram, it looks like the vacuum pump hose, but I don't see anything in the area where it looks like it should plug into. Any ideas? It's at the top left of the carb if you're looking at the bike from the left side.