GZ Will Not Start
 

Hi. I'm new to this bike and I hope some one can give me some advice. My GZ 250 started great last week but today I got nothing. Here's what happens.

I have fuel.
I turn the ignition to start the headlight turns on.
The bike is in neutral.
Engine cut off is set to ON position.
Choke is open.
Clutch is in.
I hit the starter and it's totally dead. No clicks no nothing.
I've tried it with the kickstand up and down. It's like the kill switch is still killing.

Any ideas?

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Most likely cause is the side stand switch; loose, corroded or just failed.
Then the kill switch......then maybe the ignition switch or the start button itself.
Seems like I remember a switch on the clutch lever too.

If you haven't already, switch the kill switch off and back on a few times.

You will probably need a meter and a shop manual (available here for download) to really figure it out.

That all assumes that the headlight lights up brightly; if it is dim, then you probably have a battery problem.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Boost the battery and see what you get.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Jump it from a good battery, like from your car, WITHOUT THE CAR ENGINE ON, or you will fry the electronics on the GZ from the car's alternator output.
If it starts and runs, then try charging up the battery overnight. If it still dies, get the battery load tested after you charge it again. If it's no good, get a new battery and make sure YOU CHARGE IT UP OVERNIGHT FIRST, before using it, or it will fail real quick and you'll be right back where you started from.
You can also see if the battery is dead or real weak if the headlight dims way down or dies as soon as you hit the start button - you may not have enough juice to turn over the starter. I think this thing draws something like 80 amps if I remember correctly reading that somewhere.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

The headlight is bright. I checked the battery and it is good. Any other ideas?

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

The other day - first time in months - the bike wouldn't start. Flicked the kill switch off then on again, & it started up straight away, with no problems since. Hope it's something just as simple with yours. It often is. :)

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Yes, there were about 4 of them in my first reply. :)

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

"The headlight is bright" -- does it stay bright when you hit the starter button?, or does it get very dim when you do that? There may be enough current to light up the light but not enough to kick over the starter.

"I checked the battery" -- What does that mean? Did you measure the voltage at rest or did you do a load test (which is the only way to measure a battery's condition)? How many volts did you measure at rest, and how low did the voltage drop, if any, when you hit the starter button?
Resting voltage across the battery terminals may not tell you the capacity of the battery.

Those answers will give you and us a clue about battery status and connections to the starter motor when you hit the button. It gives us a better place to start from when you ask a question. So take another look, measure the voltage before and during hitting the button and come back again. If the light dimmed significantly and the measured voltage dropped considerably when you hit the start button, your battery is at fault. If the light did not dim at all and if the battery voltage did not drop at all when you hit the start button, then we have some electrical problem we have to sort out, as no juice is getting to the starter motor. Understand what I am trying to say? We need some more information from you to proceed in an orderly fashion instead of just spouting out multiple possibilities.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Indeed, that needs to be done before running off and looking for other problems.
Good clarification.
AND if the light comes on strong but goes off when the start button is pushed, it could be a sign of a loose or corroded battery cable too. :cool:

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

My bike wouldn't start either! It is a perfect day here in North Carolina and I rolled my bike out to let it warm up, but the battery is low and it wouldn't spin fast enough or long enough for the engine to start. I suspect I may need a battery as this one is dated 02/09/06. It is a "Parts Unlimited" and made in China. The battery is on the one amp charger for now. I have had my bike for five months and haven't ridden much. What is the best deal for the money? I think I remember Easy saying that they are about a hundred bucks at the dealer. That will hurt. I didn't see the the battery specifications in the handbook. Pep Boys? Auto Zone?

Thanks,
John D

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Bank for the Buck.

OEM

My 2002 has the original battery.

I believe the cheaper batteries are not worth the saving$.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Yausa are great batteries. You can buy them online and shipped to you cheaper than a new battery from a dealer. I think I bought one for about $50-55 online from some battery company in Florida, got it in 2 days. All these batteries, even from any dealer, come dry, you have to fill them with the container of acid that comes with them.
Regardless of what brand you get, they are all AGM batteries in this size, and regardless of what any dealer or anyone else says - be forewarned- THEY MUST BE FULLY CHARGED UP BEFORE INITIAL USE or you can throw them out after starting the bike once or twice. If you don't put them on a charger for a few hours (better overnight if you are using a 1 amp trickle charger), they will have very very little capacity and will never hold a full charge no matter how many times you charge them up after that.

And Kvstrobe - where'd you go? You got some advice on here, you have any followup?

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Aren't the factory battered sealed, jell type, thus you wouldn't want to buy a battery that you have to add acid and check on occasion, to see if you need to add acid or distilled water to?
:??:

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

The replacement battery in my bike is unsealed IIRC so I will have to check the level once in a while. You need only distilled water to top it up. Never add extra acid, it is not the component that is used up. Distilled water can be found at a drug store. Regular tap water will mess up the chemical reaction in the battery and shorten it's life. The desolved solids in tap water will coat the inside of the battery and it's assorted parts.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

I'm still here mrlmd1. I have not gotten to check my battery yet. In fact, I have to confess that I don't know how to check a battery and I don't have a way to measure the voltage. My father checked the battery and said it was in good shape. He lives in Atlanta so it will be a while before we look at it again. You guys have been great.

Thanks for all of your help!

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

New GZ250 ---
The batteries are all shipped dry, to the dealers, to the battery stores, or to you by UPS. Then the container of sulfuric acid that comes with them is put into the cells from the top, then the top is sealed with a plastic strip that is placed over the holes on top of the cells. Then, these batteries MUST BE CHARGED. It is the same for all of the companies that make these batteries that fit our bikes.
They basically are almost maintenance free, you still have to check the fluid level periodically. If the level ever drops after the initial fill, then you add water, never acid again.

Kvstrobe ---
Did you try to jump the bike from a good 12V battery like from a car? Connect the cables + terminal to + terminal, - to - with battery cables and try to start it and see what happens.
If you can't do that, can you see the headlight on or have someone else look at it and hit the start button with the clutch pulled in, the sidestand up and see if the light dims.
How did your father check the battery to say it was in good shape?
To measure the battery voltage you get a cheapo tester or multimeter or voltmeter at any auto parts store or Harbor Freight or Radio Shack or Walmart or similar store, turn it on and touch the + and - battery terminals with the probes and read what it says, before and during hitting the start button. You may need someone else to help you do this because you only have two hands. It's not very difficult, and you should have one of these anyway, only costs a few dollars.
That will tell you a lot about what's happening.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Check out this link Re: Gel Batteries, I also noted on my internet search there are Gel Batteries that ship w/o acid as none needs to be added. They are shipped fully charged.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2075&view=previous
:neener:

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Haven't we been over this before........and didn't we decide that a battery that has caps where you add the acid will ***NOT*** be an AGM type ?????

I think we did. :roll:
And if we didn't, I think we SHOULD have. I believe all AGM batteries are sealed and maintenance free.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Can't agree with that! The ones that I've seen on the shelves of the auto parts bay in the supermarket (we don't have specialist auto stores over here!) are in factory sealed packs. They have a list, printed on them, showing what make & model of bike they fit. They are also sealed batteries, with no way of filling them. I don't deny that you may be right in saying that they may need a charge before use, but nowhere on the packet does it say so. It looks as though the Spanish just rip open the package, slap 'em on the bike, & away you go! :cry:

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

GZ250 -- Gel batteries are not the same as AGM's. I don't think anybody makes a gel in this small size, they are very expensive compared to lead acid or AGMs and there would probably be very little market for them.

To ER and alantf -- ER, you decided that, you believe that, not me. Every battery I've seen here, Yausa, Interstate, Exide, is listed as an AGM on the box, comes dry with a plastic container full of sulfuric acid that you add through the top of the battery, then there is a plastic plate that snaps on over the holes, and this is not really meant to be opened again. These are not true "sealed" batteries, as there is a vent hole in the top of the case. The directions in every one of them say to charge it first before initial use, and you can find that instruction also on their web sites. Every store you go into to buy a battery will fill it first then give it to you, unless you buy it in a box at Walmart, then you have to fill it yourself. I don't know why we're even discussing this, this is the way it is here, over in Europe you may have different batteries.
I have gone through 4 motorcycle batteries (3 from a battery dealer) 'till I found out about the charging business, and have not had any trouble with any of these batteries since. I have also bought small batteries for a jet ski and riding lawnmower, and they are all the same. Buy it, fill it, charge it, then use it.
I have nothing else to add to this.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

I think you are simply mistaken about the AGM part......but of course you are too stubborn to admit it. This is nothing new. :roll:

I did a quick web search last night on AGM BATTERY. Found lots of information; looked at probably a dozen various sites......and NONE of them had any information that matches your belief....NONE.

The method of shipping, filling and charging matches EXACTLY that which has been in effect for maybe 30 years.......for conventional wet cell lead acid batteries, not AGMs.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

I won't continue to argue with you because:
1.) You are always right no matter what the topic is
2.) You are more stubborn than I am and are reverting back to your old derogatory ways again.
3.) I did not present any made-up belief, I presented fact. That made me believe.
4.) It's right on the box and the case and in the instructions of 2 of my newer smaller batteries - the Yausa I got from Battery Web for the GZ is an AGM-SLA, also known as a VRLA (valve-regulated lead-acid) battery. The code is YTX on the battery, which means AGM, from all the manufacturers- Yausa, Exide, Interstate, etc, etc, etc. The battery for my jetski I got in Walmart has the same thing on the box and on the battery case. Both of these came with acid in a container that the user has to fill the battery with, then it is sealed. I guess I bought false advertising from 2 separate companies that misrepresented regular lead acid flooded batteries as AGM's, or as VRLA's.
Yuasa and other manufacturers make a factory precharged and a user charged battery, depending on the size. These are sealed (once the acid is in and the plastic strip is placed over the filler holes) but are vented so they don't explode during charging and are called "maintenance-free".

Copied from a battery site:
Flooded may be standard, with removable caps, or the so-called "maintenance free" (that means they are designed to die one week after the warranty runs out). All gelled are sealed and are "valve regulated", which means that a tiny valve keeps a slight positive pressure. Nearly all AGM batteries are sealed valve regulated (commonly referred to as "VRLA" - Valve Regulated Lead-Acid). Most valve regulated are under some pressure - 1 to 4 psi at sea level.

From Wikepedia:
VRLA stands for valve-regulated lead-acid and is the designation for low-maintenance lead-acid rechargeable batteries. Because of their construction, VRLA batteries do not require regular addition of water to the cells.[1] VRLA batteries are commonly further classified as:

* Absorbent glass mat battery
* Gel battery

These batteries are often colloquially called sealed lead-acid batteries, but they always include a safety pressure relief valve. As opposed to vented (also called flooded) batteries, a VRLA cannot spill its elecrolyte if it is inverted. Because VRLA batteries use much less electrolyte (battery acid) than traditional lead-acid batteries, they are also occasionally referred to as an "acid-starved" design.
And.
Compared with flooded lead-acid cells, VRLA batteries offer several advantages. The battery can be mounted in any position, since the valves only operate on over pressure faults. Since the battery system is designed to be recombinant and eliminate the emission of gases on overcharge, room ventilation requirements are reduced and no acid fume is emitted during normal operation. The volume of free electrolyte that could be released on damage to the case or venting is very small. There is no need (nor possibility) to check the level of electrolyte or to top up water lost due to electrolysis, reducing inspection and maintenance.
And,
Many modern motorcycles on the market utilize AGM or factory-sealed AGM batteries for the combined benefits of reduced likelihood of acid-spilling during accidents, and for packaging reasons (lighter, smaller battery to do the same job; the battery can be installed at an odd angle if needed for the design of the motorcycle.

So you can keep looking on the web all you want or not, so can everyone else, call the manufacturers like I did - these are the facts of what I have, what I've researched, and the way these two came. Some AGM's are shipped that way, not prefilled or precharged. That's the reality, now do what you want and come back with something else but I won't be answering you again.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Aw, c'mon doc! Make your mind up! Earlier, you said (and I quote) "The batteries are all shipped dry to the dealer" :??:

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

The batteries in the sizes we are talking about, for motorcycles and other small engines, as far as I know and have seen, either in the battery stores or Auto stores, or in Walmart types, or shipped from an internet source, are all packaged dry, with the acid in a separate plastic container. The larger size AGMs (or the VRLAs) and all the Gels are factory packed. You may find an exception to "all" if you try hard enough. Let's not be picky and belabor this to death. Your experience in Europe may be different, for all I know Illinois is different, but that's the way it is here. OK?

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Not being picky - it's you who are contradicting yourself.

You've made two statements.
(1) Many modern motorcycles on the market utilize factory sealed batteries.
(2) The batteries are all shipped dry to the dealer, with acid separate.

O.k. which statement is correct? (pick any one from two!) :smoke:

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Well excuse me!
MANY motorcycles utilize factory sealed batteries, SOME DON'T, as in the smaller bikes like the GZ with the 3 different batteries I got from 2 different companies and the others I looked at before I sorted out my own battery problem a year ago. 2 different brands, both VRLA's, ie, AGM's, which were not factory sealed. They also make some that are factory sealed, or there may be a choice for various applications, but not from the 2 sources I got them from in these sizes for this small bike. Go look up on the web the different batteries that fit these small bikes from different manufacturers for yourself and waste more of your own time doing it. And the jetski battery, I bought, also an AGM in a slightly larger size, was not factory sealed. So #1 is true, ie., MANY do, maybe not ALL. OK now? Is that a good enough "correction" for you? This is ridiculous. If you'd like to come and look at my batteries, I'd be happy to show them to you, you pay the airfare.
Again, and now for the last time, that's it for me on this. This is a total waste of time for me to argue about it any further. I presented facts, you both want to argue about semantics and your own opinions, so go right ahead.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Ah well......... that's a completely different kettle of fish! If you'd said that in the first place you'd have been perfectly correct. Now pick up the dummy you've thrown out of the pram, and accept that you've changed your tune! (oh - by the way - yes, I do excuse you for your previous contradictions!) :whistle: :roll: :) :2tup:

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

And THAT is a classic cop out.

You can back-pedal all you want and claim you didn't say what you DID say but the fact of the matter is that some of the statements you made are simply wrong. An "all" here and there has magically become "some".

YOU SAID:

"All these batteries, even from any dealer, come dry, you have to fill them with the container of acid that comes with them.
Regardless of what brand you get, they are all AGM batteries in this size, "

And that is simply NOT true, at least not the way you stated it.

Regardless of what your research may have led you to believe......ALL batteries of this size are NOT AGM......and as one of the quotes YOU provided says "Nearly all AGM batteries are sealed valve regulated", which does not mesh with a "user" installed seal; certainly not one that can be removed to add liquid later.

All small batteries are NOT AGM. They just aren't. You can flail around and protest all you want and spew smoke and mirrors but it won't change that fact. Conventional flooded cell small batteries are still widely available. I got one just 6 months ago.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

While I won't address my previous posts re: small AGMs, I will address you. Again.
You said:
"And THAT is a classic cop out." I don't even know what you are talking about, What you quoted in that little box in your post doesn't relate to that comment in any way I can figure out.. Don't bother clarifying, it doesn't matter.
You said :
"ALL batteries of this size are NOT AGM." "All small batteries are NOT AGM".
I never said that, I never implied that, but you can insert quotes applied to me if you want. Most, and I will go out on a limb and say this, batteries in this size for motorcycles are. See below.
And:
"And that is simply NOT true, at least not the way you stated it". And you have some factual way of backing up your statement rather than just promoting it as truth? And what does it mean, the way I stated it? Who cares anymore?
Then,
"....and as one of the quotes YOU provided says "Nearly all AGM batteries are sealed valve regulated","
Is there something wrong with that statement, picked off another site? Prove me wrong if you'd like to try. Don't spout bullshit on here with your bullying tactics. Is the word "nearly" wrong. or the word "all" wrong, stated by someone else on a battery site? And you too can come down here and look at my user-filled AGM VRLA battery if you don't believe me. On second thought, forget it, I'd rather not meet you in person. You'd probably say I had the box, the label on the battery and the instructions printed up just to fool you.

By the way, if you put a small flooded cell battery on your bike 6 months ago to save a few bucks, IMO, that's not very smart. If the bike goes down it may spill acid, If it gets overcharged for whatever reason, gas may expel acid out all over your bike. That's why practically all (can I say that or will you object to that too? Or should I say "many", or cut it down to "some", or "a few"?) bike manufacturers and battery manufacturers would recommend an AGM, so for one thing, it won't leak acid, even if upside down. But you can go against others recommendations and do as you want.

At one time when I first encountered you on here, I had a lot of respect for your "mechanical knowledge", but after getting to know you for almost 2 years on here, and reading your posts on 2 other forums, I have developed little or no respect for you as a person, and you did that all by yourself. I'm not the only one who has this opinion, and I can refer you to posts on here, and on the M-J and Honda Shadow forums too where you have alienated numerous participants in those forums and had been threatened with expulsion.
You seem to revel in picking out a single word or two instead of understanding the gist of the thread, what the writer is trying to say. You will search for that one word someone writes and attack them for it, sometimes even taking it out of context to try and make a point. You are opinionated, sometimes nasty, condescending, confrontational, argumentative, and bullying. You have to realize that these are forums where people write things, they are not engaged in direct oral conversation. You should try and listen to what people are trying to say, not jump on a single word or two to try and make some one-upsmanship Brownie points and try and be the winner of the conversation. Cut people a little slack, and I'm not referring to me.
Your turn, but no further answer from me, so have a field day with your response.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Who really gives a shit?

:lol:

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Not me anymore.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

:plus1: :horse:

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! I LOVE it! Or is it just that I'm mad as a hatter with lots of time on my hands? All answers on a $5 bill, & posted to my home address. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee! :biggun: :retard: :neener:

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

I think you're just madddddd. :rawk:

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

When the time comes, think I will get a battery from the dealer (OEM) Thanks for all the input guys! Think I got too much info, think I will error on the safe side. This post has been entertaining, brought up a bunch on none related issues. I think Water Warrior has cleaned up his act considerably! Thanks to all for educating me!
:popcorn:

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Obviously HE does, as he constantly turns tiny simple little disagreements into ranting tirades.

And he DID say way back in the beginning that all small batteries are AGM and THAT is the ONLY thing I was commenting about. Quoted in RED in my last post.

I'm sorry that you don't like me, Doc. but there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it now so I guess you will just have to live with it.

It is YOUR problem. Like Sarris said, I don't give a shit anymore. Rant ON.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

HUH !! Not trying to start a confrontation but when was my act not acceptable ? Give me a couple examples and you will get my sincerest apologies. Honest.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

I don't know anything about all the stuff you guys are talking about with the AGM and the other "letters" but when my GZ250 factory battery was right at 4 years old I decided to order a new one to keep handy just in case it did die and when I decided to trade it in, I went ahead and put the new battery in the GZ so the new owner would not have to worry about it, and since I couldn't send it back and had no use for it. I just happen to have kept the old battery from my GZ in the box that the new battery came in, so I walked out to the shop and got it and it's sitting here on my desk now, here's what I found.
The battery that came in my GZ was a YTX7L-BS It is sealed and says "DO NOT OPEN" in big letters on the cover above the cells. It also says "This Battery is sealed type. Never remove sealing caps even at Charging." and "Never add water. Charge at 12V with current and time as stated below." below it says "STC: 0.6A x 5 ~10h or Quick:3.0A x 1.0h"

The battery I bought to replace it I got on line and it was shipped sealed and without needing to put anything in the battery. It was made by Scorpion. The box says "Sealed Maintenance free VRLA AGM Powersports Battery" "Distributed in the USA by ZKE marketing scorpionbattery.com" YTX7L The installation Instructions say "Sealed Batteries" Sealed Lead-Acid Battery (VRLA) Instructins for Battery Installation 1) Check battery open circuit voltage. 2a) When voltage is lower than 12,60V or storing time is longer than 6 months, the battery must be recharged as described at following item 3. 2b) When voltage is higher than 12,60 V, battery may be installed on the vehicle without any refreshing charge. 3a) Constant voltage charging mode: Constant voltage range =14,40-14,70V Initial charging current = 0,1 - 0,5Cn Charging time = min. 6/max. 24 hrs. 3b) Constant current or power charging mode: Max. charging current = 0,1 Cn Recommended charging time = 5-8 hrs. The result [(charging current) x (charging time)] must be within the range 0,5 - 0,8 Cn N.B: When charging procedures different from those above described are used, in any case max. currents and 24 hours charging duration must not be exceeded.


That's all typed exactly as written on the instructions that came with the battery, by the way in a lot of foreign countries a comma is used instead of a period for the decimal point in case you are wondering why it says stuff like 14,40V instead of 14.40V like we usually write it here in the states. Hope this is helpful.

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

Since I had a hand in starting this s*** storm, maybe I should try to add some clarification to it.

It appears that what you got is a "real" AGM battery; that is, one that follows all the standard conventions for an AGM type battery......sealed and maintenance free. Like some other information that was provided says, that is typical of "most" AGM batteries.

NOW......the term AGM itself refers ONLY to the material that seperates the plates inside the battery. So, nothing really prevents someone (Chinese??) from putting a little bit of the AGM material between the plates of their otherwise wet-cell batteries and CALLING them "AGM".

It appears that might be what is happening.......so if you want a "real" (good) AGM battery, you would need to read ALL of the fine print on the box AND inspect it carefully.

If it is NOT sealed and maintenance free, it could be a cheap knock-off.

(I really hope this helps clarify the situation and doesn't trigger yet another round of crap.)

Re: GZ Will Not Start
 

The Scorpion battery is made in China for what it's worth.