Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Okay, I'm new to the forum and to the Suzuki GZ250. I just picked up a 2000 GZ250 with 12K miles a couple of weeks ago and I still can't get it running. The guy I bought it from told me it was running fine until he let it sit for a few months. I picked it up figuring all I'd have to do is clean out the carb and I'd be good to go, but that's not working out. Here's what I've done so far: put in a new battery, completely dissembled and cleaned the carb, changed the spark plug, adjusted the valves, added good fuel, and changed the oil. The bike will crank over just fine but it has never made any attempt to start. Not a sputter, not anything. The bike is getting fuel and spark. I've even tried spraying starter fluid into the back of the carb hoping to at least get a little sputter of life but I got nothing. I'm going to try to check the compression tomorrow, but after that, I don't know what else to do.

Assuming the compression is fine, what could I possibly be missing here? I've been able to bring several bikes back from the dead in my day, but this one's got me beat. I don't know what else I can do. Any suggestions?

P.S. Nice forum. I've never owned a bike that had it's own forum before. :2tup:

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Perplexing to say the least. Random thoughts here. Are you absolutely sure the bike is getting fuel. The petcock is normally pointing forward and is vacumn controlled. Pointing to the rear is reserve and also vacumn contrlled. Pointing down is PRIME and not vacumn controlled, just gravity feed. Yes I realize you stated a no-go with starting fluid. The only thing left is spark, how are you determining this ? Did you hold the plug against the engine(to ground it) and turn it over with the starter to visually verify a spark ?

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Did you change the plug wire too? This sounds like it's not getting any spark whatsoever if carb cleaner (B12) or "starter fluid" isn't even firing...Remember, there's only three things that an engine needs to run - air, fuel and spark.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

I've had the petcock in PRI (prime) and ON most of the time. After I redid the carb, I left the petcock in PRI for awhile to get the carb refueled. I say it's getting fuel for two reasons. First, I know there's fuel in the carb (when I loosen the screw on the bottom of the float, fuel drains out). Second, if I hold the throttle open and let the bike crank over for awhile, when I remove the spark plug I can see fuel on it. Even if it wasn't getting fuel, I would think it should still at least sputter a little when I spray starter fluid into the back of the carb, but it doesn't show any signs of life.

And yes, I held the spark plug against the engine and watched it spark as I cranked motor. The spark seemed fine to me. Nice and strong. I've worked around engines for a long time and this spark seemed normal to me. I'm actually pretty frustrated with this thing right now. I download the manual in PDF format from this forum and I just working my way through it step by step.

I'm reading everything I can on this forum, but I'm lost here. :??:

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

No, just the plug. I was thinking about changing the wire and the coil, but I'm not sure why it would be necessary if I'm already getting spark? Can you buy just the plug wire for this bike? I know most of my other bikes have the coil and plug wires as one unit. Hows does the timing work on these bikes? I'm assuming it's controlled by the computer...

The guy I bought it from also said he put a new rectifier in it. I'm not sure why, but it looks new to me.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Maybe you're actually getting too much fuel into the cylinder and you're drowning out the spark. What was your main jet set to when you had the carb off? Did you change it? Are your mixture screws drilled out where you can alter them and lean it out? Just spitballing here (mostly what I do), but if you've tried other known good plugs and they're all getting saturated with gas when you try and fire it, then it's taking way too much gas into the cylinder and literally drowning the spark out of the plug from the first crank.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

What computer?

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

The CPU. Although, I guess the timing is set in the ignitor.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Honestly, when I had the carb apart, I just did the normal dissemble, clean, reassemble. I'm going to look through the forum to see if I can find a really good carb cleaning how-to. I'll take a look at the jet size and everything else. I should also purchase the hotter plug while I'm at.

I guess I have more to try out tomorrow...

Although, I did walk out there not too long ago after the bike had been sitting for hours and all I did was spray some starter fluid into the back of the carb and crank the motor, I didn't give it any gas. Nothing. Not one little sputter.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Take a look at page 6-19 in the Service Manual. The Ignitor might actually be bad. There's a checklist there that includes voltage checking and other steps to take to verify that it's working correctly.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Yeah, I'm thinking I'm going to have to walk through several of these pages in chapter 6. This electrical stuff is not my cup of tea, but I should be able to get though it. I'm going to test the ignitor first, then work my way to the coil. Something's just not right here.

One quick question: should I buy these parts from a local dealer, or is there a good website I could check out?

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Try Bikebandit.com and/or cheapcycleparts.com I've had incredibly good experiences with both of them, and some bad experiences with both RonAyers.com and DennisKirk.com. The ignitor looks like it's pricey, so you may want to look at a salvage part or find someone parting one out. I'm not sure if "version" is still around, but he might still have some pieces left, if you can get him to answer an email or PM.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Oh crap! Knowing me, I'm sure it's the ignitor. It always has to be the most expensive part. :biggrin:

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Here ya go,
54.99 on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-00-01 ... 240%3A1318

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Stupid question - Do you have the switch on the right handlebar set to the RUN position, or is it in the kill engine position? The bike will never start unless the switch is set correctly.
Look for the simple things first instead of all the exotic ones.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

The bike wouldn't even turn over if the switch was off.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

K.I.S.S definitely but I think ANY of the safeties or the kill switch will also prevent the starter from turning.....but I don't have one to try it on anymore.

Like someone else mentioned, the float or needle valve might not be working right and dumping raw fuel into the cylinder. I would think that would show up as an overflow if left in the PRIme position very long though. Maybe the float is just set wrong.

Any chance the exhaust is plugged?

I certainly would NOT be buying electronic parts yet; a nice snappy blue/white spark pretty much proves those parts good....unless maybe the timing is WAY off...but that is highly unlikely.

Compression check is definitely in order, just to eliminate a couple of things if nothing else.

AND this is just one more example of WHY one should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER buy a bike that is not running......unless you really want a project bike. Make the seller fix it FIRST.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Well, I have a lot of stuff to check out here. First, I’m sure it’s not the kill switch. My bike won’t crank over if it’s turned off. Second, 55 bucks isn’t a bad price for that ignitor. I might have to pick that up just for the hell of it.

This bike is really odd. Everything seems to be fine, but it just won’t start. And yes, this is exactly why you shouldn’t buy a bike that’s not running. I’ve done it before so I figured I could do it again, but I’m beginning to lose confidence. Everything on the bike looks good, but I’ll be damned if I can’t get this thing to run. I will do a compression check today. The bike sounds fine when it’s cranking over, but for all I know there could be some internal engine damage. The bike was over full of oil when I got it. I probably drained about a gallon out of it. I’m not sure that this would cause any serious damage, but I guess it could have.

I’m listening to all of your ideas. Anything I can try, I’ll try. To me, like someone else already mentioned, it seems like it’s not getting spark. I mean for the bike to do nothing even when starter fluid is sprayed into the carb it just seems like a spark issue to me. If it would at least give me a little sputter on the starter fluid, I’d have something to go on, but it doesn’t do anything.

I’ve checked again and again for spark and it’s there. I wondered if the timing could be off. Seems unlikely to me, but I’ve never had one these bikes before. If that happens, I’ll try to fix it. I know if the timing was WAY off I should at least get a back fire, but I’m not getting anything.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Ah HA !! A good clue.
Don't suppose you got a smell of that "oil" you drained out, did you ??

I'm betting it was about half GAS.......that leaked into the cylinder because the float wasn't closing.....and maybe STILL isn't closing.....thus explaining a WAY too rich a mixture AND why adding even MORE fuel, in the form of starting fluid, doesn't produce any result. Also betting the your plug is wet all the time.

If I'm right, you need to:
1) fix the carb. so it doesn't dump fuel into the block anymore.
2) at the first tiny sign of it actually firing, stop and change the oil (/gas mixture).
3) run it a few minutes/miles to get it hot and then CHANGE THE OIL AGAIN.
Hopefully the gas in with the oil didn't do any permanent damage but it WILL if you don't get it flushed out good.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Will add my 2 cents worth to what Easy said. Even if the oil doesn't smell like gas you might want to dump it all. New moto oil and filter. You really have no idea what the PO pour in the crankcase. Could even be 5W20 for a cage and bad news for the GZ.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

He said he already changed the oil.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Well, they're all good suggestions, but all to no avail. I'm very close to declaring this bike dead on arrival. I've changed the oil again, and this time it was only filled to the proper level where I filled it before. I've redone the carb again, setting everything I possibly could to the specs recommended in the manual. I've inspected the spark again, nice and blue and cleaning bridging a properly gaped plug. And after all of this... nothing. Not one little sputter, shutter, backfire, hiccup, burp, nothing. Just endless cranking over and over.

I removed the airbox and place my hand on the intake side of the carb while cranking the motor and I could feel a nice strong suction from the motor. I could literally see the carb pulling the starter fluid into the motor. It won't do anything. At this point, I'm not sure if it's getting fuel. The spark plug never gets wet with fuel the way it used to, but it should still at least sputter from the starter fluid. When the motor's cranking, I can place my hand over the tail pipe and feel the exhaust coming out.

As it sits right now I think it's one of two things: first, I got a compression gauge today but I didn't get the necessary adapter (I think it's a 12mm). I'll get the adapter tomorrow and check the compression. One of my friends told me he thinks it could very well be the compression. Second, I suppose it could be possible that the ignitor went bad and is sending out the wrong ingtion timing. I'm not sure if this is even possible but I guess it could happen :??: .

Anyway, all of the comments have been great. Please keep them coming. I will keep trying for awhile with this bike, and if I'll get fixed, I post about it here right away. It's beginning to raise my blood pressure to uncomfortable levels, and if I can't get it under control, I'll probably roll it out to the bulk trash pickup. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Just going strictly off of what he is telling us, I am going to say that it doesn't have any compression, (or I should say not near enough) I guess we will find out when he checks it.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

My bad. Only read back a few posts to refresh my memory.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

This may sound totally off the wall but why not try something silly. Find a long fairly steep hill and coast down till you have enough speed to ease out the clutch and give the engine a real whirl without the starter drawing power. If that fails(probably will) you just need a friend and a truck to get back home. Or just tell me to shut up cause my mind is wandering in LaLaLand.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

That's actually not that silly at all. It's excatlly what my friend told me to do. He said he's seen bikes with low compression that wouldn't start on the starter but would start and run (not that well) by being push started. Granted, he said they were 2 strokes, but he suggested I try it out anyway. My problem is finding the hill. :biggrin:

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

A decent sloped driveway, with some runoff area at the end should suffice, especially if you have someone who can give you a bit of a push start.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

I'm about out of ideas too but let's take one more whack at it.
Be sure your battery is fully charged on each attempt. Maybe even better, jump it from a larger car battery. The electronic iginition is known to be picky about low voltage.
AND after all this, I'd put in a new plug one more time.....just for grins; only about $3.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Maybe just maybe. When there was excessive fuel going into the cylinder could the rings(especially the oil ring)be washed clean and lowered the compression ? A good hill could pump up the oil pressure and reseal the piston to the cylinder wall. Maybe 2 drops of oil into the spark plug hole before the hill test would help seal things.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Well, someone also told me that spraying too much starter fluid into the motor can wash the cylinder clean as well and possibably have a negative effect on the rings. But I've got the bike project on hold for right now. I couldn't find the 12mm adapter for the compression gauge locally so I had to order one online. It will probably take at least a week to get here. I've been toying with the bike a little, but I'm really beginning to think I might have a compression problem. Could be stuck or gummed up valves, bad rings, or worse. Once I get the adapter, I'll be able to do a compression test and a leak down test if I do indeed have low compression. That might point me in the right direction. Just for fun I called a local Suzuki dealer today and asked them how much they'd charge to rebuild this little 250cc engine if I brought it in with bad compression. The guy said it would be around $1000 :lol: That ain't going to happen. I can't believe these dealers are actually charging people a grand to rebuild a little single cylinder 250cc motor. If it is a compression problem, I'll either have to fix it myself or sell the bike as is to someone who's looking for a little project.

I'll post the results of the compression test once I get the adapter.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Most starting "fluid" is ether.
It is supposed to go into the engine in GAS form, not liquid.
It should be sprayed into the air box, probably with the air cleaner still in place. That pretty much guarantees that the above won't happen.......and a little goes a LONG way. All it takes is a one or two second squirt.

I never thought about it before but I guess it would be possible to flood it with too much if you are spraying directly into the carb throat.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Okay I finally got my compression gauge 12mm adapter. Here's the results...

I did several tests and on each one I got the exact same reading; it would top out and hold at 149psi (just over a 1000kpa). That places it toward the bottom of the standard range, but a good way above the minimum limit of 114psi.

So there we have it. Even though the bike is toward the bottom of the standard range, it's still within the standard range. The big question now is WHAT'S NEXT???

Should I consider getting a new ignitor? Could it be the timing? How can I make sure it's getting fuel (not counting starter fluid)? What should I do?

I know the battery is fine. Whenever I'm cranking it over, I hook the battery up to my charger so it's always putting out a strong charge.

I'm just baffled. It's nice to know that the engine compression is good, but now I'm back to square one. I'll try anything.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

OK, so here's the deal:
This has gone far enough, I think.
You are, of course, free to waste as much of your time and money as you choose but it is by now obvious that "we" aren't doing you any good.

Several suggestions have been made that you didn't respond to.....like have you tried it again using the starting fluid correctly this time ?? Have you put in another new plug ??

You need somebody else to actually LOOK it over.

At this point, I think it would be WELL worth $50-$100 to get it to a dealer for a diagnosis and opinion........or just sell it.

I got nothing else to offer. Sorry.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

I'm trying to find my Tester. I want to have this ignitor checked tonight. The testing seems simple enough.I've tried everything that's been suggested.

Yes, I have completely resembled the bike and just simply tried to start it using nothing but a few sprays of starter fluid into the airbox.

Yes, I have tried a couple of new plugs.

Yes, I have changed the oil.

Yes, I know the battery is putting out a strong charge.

And yes, I called a local bike shop two miles from my house and he told me he could figure out what's wrong with the bike in one hour or less and charge me $75. This is my last option because I don't like having to load the bike up in my truck and tie it down and what not.

But whatever. If no one's interested I'll quit posting. If I get it running, I'll just post what it took. Working on testing the ignitor tonight.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

I didn't say nobody was interested.
We have tried and failed.
There comes a time when it is prudent to give up.
IMHO, "we" have arrived there because "we" can't see/feel/hear/smell what is really going on.
Please DO let us know how it turns out.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

I agree with Easy. So far we are stumped and really would like to know. Maybe the local shop can find the problem quickly and cheaply so your frustration and hair pulling can stop. I have been down that road and it just isn't worth it sometimes.

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Yeah, you guys are probably right. I just can't bring myself to take it to the shop. It makes me feel like less of a man. :biggrin:

Anyway, for what it's worth, I'm still going to test the ignitor. I'm glad the compression is fine. I really didn't want to have to break the motor open to do a mild overhaul. I had convinced myself that I just do it if the compression was bad, but I wasn't really looking forward to it.

As of now, I'm thinking it's spark related. I'm going to run every test in Chapter 6. If I still hit a deadend, I may have to take the walk of shame...

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

Maybe PO tried to adjust the valves and did'nt have it on the right stroke. If you can do this yourself, this would be my last resort before taking it to a shop. Good luck, I know its frustrating(2 riding lawnmowers/same prob.)

Re: Help! Bike cranks fine but won't start.
 

[quote="DSmithjr"]Yeah, you guys are probably right. I just can't bring myself to take it to the shop. It makes me feel like less of a man. :biggrin:

A lesser man would just give up and burn the bike for revenge. Nothing wrong with admitting defeat and going to a shop with hopefully more experience concerning your bike. The shop guys probably have to come to you for your line of expertise so it all works out wonderfully. Don't knock yourself out over this. A real man knows when to say " I'm stumped".