two finger technique
 

Does anybody use just two fingers to operate the clutch and/or brake, and if so, in what situations?

Thanks,

Keith

Re: two finger technique
 

I tend to use three (all but the index) for each, and cover them almost always. It feels really weird to not have it covered.

Just two might have trouble being firm on the front brake or have trouble controlling the clutch position in traffic, imo.

Re: two finger technique
 

Some riders will tell you to do "this or that" for safety and they are speaking with the best of intensions. Also they are probably right. I prefer to do what is most comfy for me.

Re: two finger technique
 

No. Never.
Just a little slip and you are down to one.......or NONE!

Re: two finger technique
 

That's exactly what I was thinking, but the issue came up the other day (I won't bore you with the details), so I thought I'd put it out to this group and see what people had to say.

While I'm at it, can I ask kind of a newb question? When you engage the clutch, do you pull it in all the way (so the lever is touching the handlebar), or just what is necessary to shift? As I get more riding experience, I'm noticing subtleties in both my skill and the bike and I'm developing new questions.

Keith

Re: two finger technique
 

i use all my fingers on the clutch so i can make sure it is pulled in all the way. and only 2 on the break

Re: two finger technique
 

Best to pull it ALL the way. It is VERY hard to gauge exactly how much is needed and too much is a LOT better than too little. Muscle memory is important and developing that requires doing it exactly the same way every time.

Or to put it another way.........don't try to get too "cute"; there really is nothing to be gained. :biggrin:

Re: two finger technique
 

I think that this answer is probably good advice for a new rider, but I also think that experience counts for a great deal. I find that a light touch on the gear pedal, while pulling in the clutch, lets me feel when the bike is ready & comfortable to slip into the next gear. Most times this is before the clutch lever touches the grip. I suppose this is at the point that the clutch disengages, which is slightly before the lever reaches the grip.

On the point of "two fingers", I never really thought about it, so today I took special notice, and yes, I realised that I too used two fingers, third & fourth, on both hands to operate the controls.

Re: two finger technique
 

I find that somewhat facinating; maybe I should make it a point to see exactly what I do, rather than what I THINK I do.

So, where do the second and fifth fingers go? Behind the lever (or still on the grip) would seem to be a bit awkward ??

Re: two finger technique
 

The second finger (that is, the first finger after the thumb) seems to stick straight out, & my little finger (pinkie?) seems too short to do anything anyhow. Like I said, I'd never realised what I did, until I took special note.

Re: two finger technique
 

Seems to me like a proper Englishman would have his pinkie raised......... :biggrin: :crackup

Re: two finger technique
 

Only if SHE is drinking tea I would imagine.

Re: two finger technique
 

You beat me to the punch! :2tup:

Re: two finger technique
 

Uh Uh, beat you to the tea. Lame response but I had to do it. :) :)

Re: two finger technique
 

With my two finger technique, you have to ride with no hands.

:fu: :facepalm: :fu:
The Two Finger Technique

Seriously, use ALL your fingers and pull it all the way to the bar. You'll have to do this on most larger bikes anyway, so you may as well be accustomed to it.

:)

Re: two finger technique
 

Sure, no problem. I found the proper size O-ring for my Kardasian (whatever) grips yesterday so my "cruise control" is working and I'm ready to go with whatever hand signals are needed !!! :neener:

P.S. Checked it out today and I use 3-1/2 fingers on both sides; the pinky is on there but it ain't doin' much. :)

Re: two finger technique
 

A number of people have commented on pulling the clutch all the way in, and Sarris mentioned this is even more necessary on bigger bikes.

On my GZ it's also important to make sure you are letting the clutch all the way OUT too. I haven't been riding it much lately but when I took it out the other day, I found I was not letting the clutch all the way out and losing power and acceleration (probably not helping the transmission much either.) I suspect it is because my other bike has less travel in the clutch, but I'm not sure why I was doing this. Might also be related to gauntlet gloves vs the thinner ones...

The bike will still ride somewhat normally with the clutch only partially released, but with less torque.

The "two-finger" business is a form of "covering." (Typically the brakes.) There is all sorts of debate of covering vs non covering that I don't really want to get into, (I "cover" approaching intersections and in parking lots.) I don't think it is ever recommended as the standard way to use the levers.

EDIT: I noticed yesterday that I "cover" with all four fingers. I have pretty chunky levers and it's best not to pussyfoot them - two fingers really wouldn't make any sense for me. When I'm on the freeway, I keep my fingers around the grips unless I'm splitting lanes at slow speed.

Re: two finger technique
 

I find that 90% of the time I 'cover' the brake and clutch with at least a couple fingers, if not all of them, while riding. When I operate the clutch and brake, though, I use all fingers, it's just more comfortable to me, to each his own.

Re: two finger technique
 

Hi, there.
Here is my experience about covering fingers....
I used to do same way like what you are doing >> 'cover' the brake and clutch with at least a couple fingers.
But now (I have not been riding almost over 20 years, ha ha ha), after MSF class, I try not to.
Whenever I recognize that I cover; especially on the clutch lever; with fingers,
I remove it intentionally if I'm not riding on the busy city commuting which requires frequent gear shifting.
The reason is that when riders met a Panic Situation,
riders tend to squeeze the clutch or brake lever without thinking (self-defense system on the brain).
And many cases with that makes bike down especially when turning or bike was leaned.
I also had similar situations and felt it's very dangerous.... (I might need better riding technique.. ha ha ha),
and bike losses power suddenly when clutch is out of the engin train when turning or riding down, and I had hard moments to control bike. >>> causes worse situations.
That's my experience for the covering fingers ...

And one thought about Two Finger Method.
I'm currently having just little bit shorter Clutch Lever. (don't ask me why ... ha ha ha, if you ask, I will answer why I have shorter clutch lever)
My clutch lever is just right size for my palm size; it just covers all my 4 fingers.
So, most time I'm using my 2-3 fingers without my intention, and felt very comfty.
And my last two fingers are very happy with it >> I can put on/off my all fingers very easily and faster than before....
It gives less fatigue on my left hands..... and gave me little better control on clutch >> I don't know why???
There might be some reasons(Physics) here >>> shorter >>> less movement requires on clutch actions
>> shorter >> requires just little more hand gripping power >>> but reduces time to find friction zone >>> shorter clutch engage time >>> etc...
Ha ha ha, I don't want to change my shorter clutch lever with Longer until I found some reason.

However, I like to use all my 4 fingers on the bike levers >> makes me more confidence on....

Re: two finger technique
 

I think the only time you should use two fingers is if your bike is suited for it. For instance, its a lot easier to use two fingers on a sport bike with dual front brakes than it is a big cruiser with a single disk in the front. Sport Riding Techniques by Nick Ienatsch which, despite the implications of the title, has a LOT of good information about riding on the street, recommends using two/three fingers for the clutch and brake. If your clutch is light enough and your brakes powerful enough (so you don't need to put that much effort into braking) then using two/three fingers is fine.

Now, granted, the GZ's brake system probably isn't considered "low-effort," so you probably wouldn't want to use this technique on this bike.

Re: two finger technique
 

If you know where the friction zone is (via muscle memory) then you don't need to pull all the way in.

Re: two finger technique
 

Nope.
:neener:

Re: two finger technique
 

There are three things wrong with that statement:

1) Like I said before, what can you possbily gain by pulling the clutch in only part way ??
If you think you MUST do something "different", then practice shifting without the clutch at all.

2) Maybe more importantly, the action of finding the friction zone while engaging the clutch is a different action than trying to find it while dis-engaging it. Muscle "memory" is only obtained after a LOT of repetitions of exactly the same operation; those two are not the same.

3) What kind of feedback do you think you will get to allow you to FIND a "friction zone" while dis-engaging ??? When the clutch starts to slip ???

I'm sorry to disagree but I find the whole concept ridiculous.

Re: two finger technique
 

Pulling the clutch in part way may be acceptable when shifting to just unload the gears but shifting into gear from neutral or into neutral from a gear is a full pull to get as much clutch release as possible. Or just go totally clutchless except for stops and starts but it does take practice and concentration to get it right.

Re: two finger technique
 

Quicker and smoother shifting. Clutchless shifting may be acceptable with going up the gearbox, but clutchless downshifts can be dangerous, evidenced by the fact that even pros (without the electronic doodads) will clutch on downshifts.

If you've got a bike whose friction zone is in the first 1/3 of the clutch's range of motion, there's no benefit at all to pulling it all the way in when trying to shift smoothly.

Re: two finger technique
 

Trying to estimate where the release point is by pulling the lever in only part way can be dangerous to the transmission TOO. :skull:

To each his own, I guess. What you propose would take a LOT of practice to get it right and would, I think, be more prone to an occasional "oops" if your concentration isn't perfect.

Then......what do you do after the clutch cable is re-adjusted OR you climb on another bike with a different release point?

I quit; that's all I got. :cool:

Re: two finger technique
 

IMHO, if your "friction zone" is in the last 1/3, you need a clutch adjustment. I believe the manual on page 50 says 15MM +/- off the grip should start engagement.

Also, FYI, by the time you feel the friction, you are already heating up (if not burning) the clutch. Why not just operate the clutch as intended? Are you going to fuck up the clutch just 'cause you want to be lazy??

Your partial engagement argument is pure bullshit.

:whistle: :cry: O_o

Re: two finger technique
 

Don't sugar coat it, Sarris, tell us what you REALLY think!! :shocked:

(Like that has EVER been a problem!!) :biggrin:

Re: two finger technique
 

I have an idea. Let's all agree to politely disagree. I think this is a case of "You ride yours and I'll ride mine". Go with whatever works for you.

Re: two finger technique
 

Finally! A referee.

Re: two finger technique
 

We take turns......and it seems QUITE out of character at times !! :roll: :biggrin:

Re: two finger technique
 

No, your technique is incorrect. At the MSF class they teach you to pull the lever to the GRIP. The manufacturer says 15 mm off the GRIP.

What don't you get? It's your bike, fuck it up all you want, that's your right.

But, don't sing that shit as gospel here for the newbies to pick up. Wrong technique is wrong technique.

So.... I politely disagree.

:biggun:

Re: two finger technique
 

Well Sarris, disagree all you want, but you'd be hard pressed to prove that I'm the only rider out there who finds that pulling the clutch in all the way is necessary for proper shifting. Unfortunately I'd be violating forum rules by showing you a dozen threads on other forums that backup what I said.

It is funny that you got so worked up over this, though...

Re: two finger technique
 

Yeah, a dozen dumb asses is still a dozen dumb asses.

And...... I'm not worked up. Just politely disagreeing.

:)

Re: two finger technique
 

If that was you politely disagreeing, I'd hate to see you pissed...

Re: two finger technique
 

Oh, and let's not be finding quotes from road track racers or stunters......it is assumed that we are talking about techniques useful to the general public.
A post on an Internet forum is, after all, the best reference one can find.... :roll:

Re: two finger technique
 

Are there not rules against posting links to other forums?

Re: two finger technique
 

Are there?
You keep making assertions with nothing (so far) to back them up.

You don't have to post links; post some quotes from someone who has slightly more qualifications than "self appointed expert".

And to quote a recognized expert on dumb asses:
"Yeah, a dozen dumb asses is still [just] a dozen dumb asses." :shocked: :biggrin:

Re: two finger technique
 

Ah, well there seems to be a lot of that going on in this thread, huh? Like your assertion that it is difficult to tell when the clutch is disengaged. I can't remember what it was like on the GZ, but I can tell you for a fact that it was extremely easy to tell when the clutch was disengaged on my KZ550. Perhaps thats because inline-4s have a ton of engine braking, I don't know. But I can tell you that between the loss of engine braking and the freely revving engine while blipping the throttle to match revs (on downshifts) makes it very evident when the clutch is disengaged.

Besides, even if the clutch IS slightly engaged, slipping for a tenth of a second is hardly going to cause any clutch damage. Certainly no more than riding the clutch in low speed maneuvers.

Re: two finger technique
 

Just stop, please. You are making yourself look (more) foolish.
I quit.