Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Before there was any notion of gun control in the US or Britain or Europe, the US had a much greater rate of violent crime than most other countries. It's not about guns. In Switzerland every house has guns. Every male serves in the military. They take their firearms home with them. They have one of the lowest crime rates in the Western world. It's us Americans that are the problem, not firearms themselves.

Another thing - much of that high rate of firearm related homicide in the US is criminal on criminal. Take out the turf wars between gangs and drug dealers and that rate drops dramatically. The death rate for kids being killed by guns goes way down too, because a lot of those people being counted as kids are hard core gang members up to the age of 24. Yes-huh. So yes, we are more violent than other countries, but it's not because of guns. Gun violence is a symptom of something more insidious. What makes America great is that most of the states in our country still give their citizens the freedom to choose whether or not they want to be able to defend themselves with deadly force in the face of deadly force threatening them. In those states that allow such liberty, the rate of citizens who actually apply for a CCW is very small--under 4% in most cases.

In Ca, it's up to the county sheriff's to decide if their citizens are allowed to carry. Some allow it, some limit it, some GREATLY limit it, and some don't allow it, period. Bad guys carry regardless.

Guns and more gun stuff.
 

Okay, as a Canadian here is how I understand it. The government in it's wisdom created a Firearms Registry for Canadians. All law abiding citizens who do not register are now criminals. All non-law abiding folks who really are criminals and don't register are no better or worse off than before.
More food for thought : just wait till some one hacks into the registry and finds out where to steal all the guns from law abiding citizens.
More intelligent hogwash by government. They said this registry would cost 2 million to set up. Would you believe 500 million bucks to make a f$^king list of law abiding criminals who pay their taxes. Your tax $ at work. Real criminals will always have guns, why make criminals out of real working folks who hunt or shoot targets for recreation.
I would love to go back to shooting targets all afternoon someplace safe and isolated but the B.S. is too much for me.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Don't know who said it first but an armed society is a polite society.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

I did not know this forum had a: DAWN PATROL.

Now the unarmed can rest easy.

Re: Guns and more gun stuff.
 

It is so obvious government is the Real Criminal. Talk about organized crime! In the US there are over 300 million citizens, and fewer than 2 million US government employees total, with only 1000 or so with any real say so. Yet we are like sheep. What can WE do, we whine. Hey, but we get to vote for tweedle-dee or tweedle-dum, and argue amongst ourselves over endless "issues", while the corporations call the shots and take us for everything we are worth.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

In PA it is also the county sheriff who determines how easy it is to get a "permit to carry a concealed weapon". I happen to have a sheriff who has a "shall issue" policy. Actually in PA as elsewhere in this great land it is not necessary to have any permit if you carry openly, but you can be cited for "causing a public disturbance". OH MY GOD HE HAS A GUN!!! shriek --duck --hide --call the police!

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

A big issue with this is that comparing say Canada or Switzerland, and the U.S. in terms of gun violence is that there really is no comparision. Like someone said earlier in the other thread that got this going, there are so many murders that are gang members killing each other or drug dealers killing each other (or both) that you will never know what the true "civilian murder rate" is, until there is the number of gangs and drug dealers in Canada or Switzerland or England that we have here in the U.S., there is really no use comparing the two.


Also since there is a lot of Canadians on this site I will ask this since I am too lazy to look it up myself, when someone does commit a serious crime in Canada, do they actually do something to the criminal or do they slap them on the wrist and send them on there way like they do here. Here in the U.S. it is not uncommon for some young thug to kill someone over their purse, "make a deal" get 10 years, serve 6 of those and be back out on the street to kill someone else, if you want my opinion THAT is the real problem.

Even though I don't think we need to go to quite this extreme, in a few Middle eastern countries if you steal something, they chop off your hand (how many one handed middle eastern guys have you ever seen). It comes down to a basic respect for the laws we ALREADY HAVE in place and the fear of the punishment. For most of these so called gangbangers, going to prison is something to be proud of, almost like a vacation to go see old friends that are locked up, they are not scared in the least by it, the only people that are scared of prison are the Law Abiding Citizens. So in closing no amount of Gun Control is going to stop violence and murder, because like someone else already said, the only guns you are gonna end up controlling are the ones that Law Abiding citizens own, the criminals are gonna do what criminals do, break the gun control law.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

The English government has stated that it cannot afford to build any more prisons, so it has come up with a way to solve the problem at a stroke - It has instructed the judges NOT TO IMPOSE PRISON SENTENCES ON ANYONE! If I could stop banging my head against a brick wall, I would have to cry.

The prisoners who are already in jail have complained about overcrowding (poor little darlings) so - (& again, please don't think I'm joking) the government has decided to let half of them out regardless of whether they've completed 1 week of a 10 year sentence, or more.

Who said "it sounds like the lunatics are running the asylum"?

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Hey, Patrick, how about a section dedicated to flammable topics? You know, something we can throw a log on when there's no riding or mechanical diagnosing going on. An energy source to get us through the long cold winter.

Possible threads:

1) Helmets are stupid.
2) Guns are awesome.
3) GZ's aren't fast enough for the highway
4) I want to drill some holes in my exhaust, how many and where should I start?
5) And, my all time favorite.... "Hey, look at this! I bet can turn my 250 into a 350!"

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Lets see, Helmets Might not be stupid but I feel like I look stupid (not because i am wearing one but because of how it looks on my head) when I have mine on, guns ARE AWESOME, GZ's are plenty fast for the HIGHWAY just not for the INTERSTATE OR FREEWAY.

Plenty of people have tried the drill some holes in my exhaust project, I don't know of ANY that left it that way (someone correct me on that if i am wrong) which tells me one thing, that it sucks to do that to a GZ so I won't do it.

And last but not least, "I bet someone COULD turn their GZ into a 350", someone COULD, but the problem is that no one has and no one has even ATTEMPTED IT even though a trillion people have got on here wanting to discuss why someone should (not them but someone should) which also tells me that it is not worth my time or trouble unless I had a blown engine on a GZ just sitting around waiting for me to gut it.

So I covered those five so called "flammable topics" got any more.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Damn! Um... Bush is dumb? Radiohead isn't really music? Harley's are overpriced?

(I got a million of 'em.)

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

This is too easy, Bush IS VERY DUMB (more like a complete moron), Harley's are WAY overpriced, and I will have to listen to a few songs by Radiohead and get back to you on that one (haven't really listened to them so I don't have an opinion on that one). :poke2: :poke2: :poke2: :poke2:

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

You don't really "listen" to Radiohead, as much as you are dry-raped by it.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Whenever you feel THAT bored, like when you occasionally have a bad weather day and can't ride :roll: just start one up in "Off Topic" and see how it plays.

Right now, I think most of us on here can have an adult discussion (with some humor thrown it) about most anything without getting anybody upset about it.

Most folks have a hot button issue or two but can still keep things in perspective.
For instance, I think it should be forbidden to make remarks about ugly sheep. :popcorn:

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Off Topic Chit Chat or.... Off Color Chit Chat??

For me it's Greek jokes................. You know how faithful we are... never leave your buddys behind!?!?

:lol:

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Are there any Greek sheep? Are they cute ?? :shocked:
:haha2:

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

They're GREEK...of course not.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Pity the poor cute Greek sheep in a British prison.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

They will be out on the street soon enough, so no worries!

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Music Man, yup the penalties are just a slap on the wrist here too. Heaven forbid we offend some poor cretin from a dysfunctional family.
This next little bit may sound extreme but it worked. Years ago(40?) I talked to a Lady of European decent and she said in her country nobody went to prison twice. Wish I could remember which country. The prison conditions were very harsh because the prisoners were serving time and the word serve meant something over there. Inmates broke rock in a quarry to supply railroad beds, road beds and other construction. Enough rock had to be sold to support the prison system and cover all costs. That included the guards wages so they were issued whips and clubs to keep the inmates working. Even your fellow inmates would take a swipe at you for slacking off.
If you didn't survive prison no problem. If you did survive you would not take a chance again of going to prison. Anyone actually facing a second prison term was considered smart if they took their own life.
I won't say we should revert to a system as harsh but a real punishment in a real prison might do wonders for first timers to get over a potential life of crime.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

I actually am a Radiohead fan, but I understand it's not for everyone. No one took my U2, Dave Matthews or Jonas Bros bait earlier, so I guess you are either all fans or actually ladies. (My apologies, ladies!)

Like staying non-zombie, keeping up with popular music is a lot of work and when I get busy with other distractions, I tend to drift out of touch. I really do think the world has heard enough from Robert Plant, Jagger & Co and Mr. Springsteen, but apparently I'm in the minority on that one too.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Figures that a guy from Oklahoma would know all about cute/ugly sheep !!! :shocked: :crackup

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Re the prison rant. California has a unique situation. Our state is sort of run by the prison guards. (via the prison guards union.) (I'm completely serious, look it up.) They got the "three strikes" law passed, and so we have a lot of lifers, some whose third offense was shoplifting. (not saying these guys should get leniency, but it costs a ton to keep them in prison till they die. Plus, it's a little harsh.) We've spent lot more on prisons in the last ten years than we have on schools, but it's nowhere near enough. We've been piling them into smaller and smaller cages. The feds recently ruled we are probably going have to let about 40% of them out. Plus we are seriously out of money and no one will lend us anymore.

The California state prisons are not nice. They have one named after me. (CSP-Corcoran.) Supposed to house about 3000 inmates. Current population is north of 5000. Home of such notables as Juan Corona, Sirhan Sirhan and, our good buddy, Charles Manson. Guards used to stage "gladiator fights" there. Loser got shot by the guards. (Again, not kidding.) I know you guys think every one in prison deserves to be there, and for about half of them, I'd agree. But how many of you know some doing 25 to life because they would not roll on their pot supplier? A lot of the inmates are in on "war on drugs" related offenses. Some of them are, "I killed a rival dealer" type offenses, but a lot of them are just young, dumb entrepreneurs that didn't think they'd end up in prison.

But at least the weather's nice.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

If you commit THREE different crimes that are serious enough to get you a prison sentence on three separate occasions, in other words, do a crime, go to prison get out, do a crime...... you get the picture, you shouldn't go to prison for life, you should just be put down, because it is PAINFULLY OBVIOUS to me that you are NEVER going to be able to be a functional human being.


Just about everyone deserves a second chance, except for people who do truly heinous acts the first time, but NO ONE and I mean NO ONE deserves a fourth chance to commit a felony (especially a violent one) and just get to go to prison for a few years for it.

So I do not think that it is too harsh for someone to "just shoplift" on their third offense and get life in prison, yea it would be harsh to get life in prison for shoplifting, but that is not what we are talking about, this person has already committed several other crimes, it just so happens shoplifting was the last straw. There are some members of society that are NEVER going to contribute anything but heartache and sorrow to the world and they should be treated accordingly.

The whole drug related prison sentence thing is also a whole other issue, you have pot dealers rubbing elbows with rapists and murderers, it is truly ridiculous. :facepalm:

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Florida has an interesting 10-20-life rule for crimes committed with a gun:
Use a gun in a crime- mandatory 10 year sentence
Fire the gun, whether you hit someone or not- mandatory 20 years
Shoot someone, whether you wound or kill them- mandatory life sentence

I don't know how much of a deterrent this is, because if you shoot someone you may as well kill them as the punishment's the same. And, depending on your age, there may be little difference in just firing off a shot to scare someone and killing someone and hope you can get away. It may be an incentive for a more violent crime than was originally intended. :??:

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Many years ago a friend of mine in law enforcement had a theory. Society will try to rehabilitate a criminal 2 times. 3rd time you commit an offense you have proven yourself unfit for society. Therefore a small 38 caliber implant should be installed behind the left ear soonest. Prisons would not be as crowded after a while.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Javert, is that you?

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

I have a friend in Texas who received a 25 year sentence in the state penitentiary because the cops found an old 1" long roach under the seat of his used pickup during a "routine" traffic stop. He swore it wasn't his but they had a zero tolerance policy, and he had no dough for a lawyer. Kangaroo Court. He was released after 10 years in various units. He had gotten into an argument with the arresting officer about a week before he was arrested.

13% of the convicts on death row in Illinois were found to be innocent with DNA evidence, 80% of those were convicted with what turned out to be faulty eyewitness identification despite evidence to the contrary which was disallowed at their trial.

I was arrested years ago (in Mississippi) and sent to jail for three days with no phone call and with no evidence at all of any crime but I had long hair and worse, I was a Yankee! No hearing or anything. I told them my Daddy was a lawyer up north and we would sue if they didn't let me out. Upon my release the cop told me to bring a 38 with me next time I came down there????

I have another friend who did a YEAR in county jail. His crime was being asleep in the back seat of a car when his "buddies" stole a quart of oil from a gas station. They turned evidence on him, in exchange for getting off themselves.

I guess my point being that just because a person has been convicted of a crime idoesn't mean they committed one. So before we start executing them we had better be damn sure they did something to deserve getting arrested in the first place. Not just because of a quota or a personal grudge. Arrests are made all the time for a variety of reasons, not all of them bona fide.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

:plus1:

Well put Mr. Softie. I have to disqualify myself from having an unbiased opinion on these things (because, in plain terms, I DO have a problem with authority) but I can attest that justice is usually not dispensed like you see on "Law and Order."

Between bullshit puritan laws (drugs, prostitution stings, etc.), outrageous snitch witness deals, suspect forensic "science", and overworked/underpaid public defenders, it's easy to be falsely convicted, even if your crime is nothing more than you happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

If you are a nonconformist, you're already guilty of disrespecting society and they'll be all to happy to give you a reason to justify your contempt.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Which is exactly why I said ONLY people that beyond a shadow of a doubt did what they did, not only that, what is the likely hood of you getting falsely convicted of a felony, go to prison, get out, get falsely convicted of another felony, go back to prison, get falsely convicted of another felony and go back to prison a third time.

Now I am not saying that in the history of the legal system this has NEVER happened, but I doubt the prisons are overflowing with them. No I would have to say that AT LEAST 99% of the people that are in prison for life because of the three strikes law, COMPLETELY deserve to be there. Now the number of people who are in prison that don't deserve to be there either because they are innocent or did something like buy a sack of weed from the wrong person, well that is a whole different number all together.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Who buys weed from someone they don't already know? Those people SHOULD be arrested...for being stupid.

:bong: :crackup

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Legalize it. We need weed dealers on the tax rolls. Need to recycle that unemployment money back into the good old USA. Stop growing corn for ethanol and start growing weed (to increase consumption - of pizza, Pink Floyd and twinkies.) Stoners don't drive, so that'll cut down on our foreign oil dependence. We can reduce the prison population and the costs that go with it. Focus the police on violent crime and terrorism.

We could export it. Weed grows great here in the US. We could do for wacky terbacky what we done for regular terbacky.

Plus, once it's legal, kids won't smoke it just to be cool.

It's a win-win. Why are we so GD stupid about it?

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

[quote=patrick_777]Who buys weed from someone they don't already know? Those people SHOULD be arrested...for being stupid.

:bong: :crackup[/quote:2290f71c]


Who said anything about buying weed from someone they don't know, that wrong person could be someone you have been buying it from for years that got busted and decided to help the police wrangle in all his buddies.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Then perhaps, you probably never really "knew" that person very well.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Nah, this goes on all the time. But typically in the other direction.

In the seventies, a lot of law enforcers used to look the other way for possession and small scale dealing. (Don't ask how I know.) In New York, for a while, they would just give you a ticket if they caught you with weed. Most cops didn't even bother. Some made you get rid of it, some took it. Most didn't even care - as long as you weren't driving high, smoking in a public area or selling to kids.

At some point, there was a change in plan and they started throwing the book at weed dealers in a lot of jurisdictions. Typically they get casual "user" to give up his dealer, then they go after the small dealer to get to HIS dealer. And so on. First one that does not roll, goes to jail. Roll on the wrong guy, or be at the wrong part of the weed chain and you could get the death penalty (from the rollee).

In California we have pretty relaxed weed laws - you can basically buy weed at a store. Unfortunately, the Federal douchebags won't give it up, and they continue to raid, prosecute and otherwise be general dicks about it. Shot a guy that was growing weed in his backyard a few years ago on a "raid." I think he had just the one plant, but he was sort of a mouthy *uck. He's dead though, so society is safe. Probably took his house from his survivors as "ill gotten gains."

One of several reasons my weed days are are a distant memory.

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

Pressure from the Fed's.

A lot of those in Washington (and one party in particular) seems to think that they "need" a war on something.......to keep us "peons" occupied so we don't think as much about things that really matter..........like regulating financial institutions so they don't F... up the whole world worse than a war would do.

Sometime back about the early '80s (Regan was Pres. ??) we just ran out of wars.......so we created "The War on Drugs". Now that we have several "real" wars to keep us occupied, we somehow forgot that we could stop fighting the made-up one.

There IS hope, however. Alas, some will whine and moan and claim that it will be a big mistake to stop putting pot smokers in jail.

We need the space for the "white collar" criminals. :cry:

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

This morning I almost inhaled my Rice Crispies when I opened my LA Times to this story on the front page of the "California" section:

Reporting from Sacramento -- Could Cannabis sativa be a salvation for California's fiscal misfortunes? Can the state get a better budget grip by taxing what some folks toke? An assemblyman from San Francisco announced legislation Monday to do just that: make California the first state in the nation to tax and regulate recreational marijuana in the same manner as alcohol. Buoyed by the widely held belief that cannabis is California's biggest cash crop, Assemblyman Tom Ammiano contends it is time to reap some state revenue from that harvest while putting a damper on drug use by teens, cutting police costs and even helping Mother Nature.

"I know the jokes are going to be coming, but this is not a frivolous issue," said Ammiano, a Democrat elected in November after more than a dozen years as a San Francisco supervisor. "California always takes the lead -- on gay marriage, the sanctuary movement, medical marijuana."

Anti-drug groups are anything but amused by the idea of California collecting a windfall from the leafy herb that remains illegal under federal law. "This would open another door in Pandora's box," said Calvina Fay, executive director of Save Our Society From Drugs. "Legalizing drugs like this would create a whole new set of costs for society."

You can read the rest here: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... 4269.story

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

In adddition to all of my other talents, I am also psychic.
I knew they were going to print that !!!! :smoke:
:crackup

Re: Hey, I didn't get to chip in on the gun hijacked thread
 

_