small bike
 

I think the gz250 is a small bike relative to a harley elctra-glide or Kawa Vulcan or ....
but it is also not a small bike for someone my size 5'6" / 160 lbs.
It is the same size as any 1970 era 250-500 machine in dimensions and weight even triumph 650 bonnevilles were only slightly heavier @ 375 lbs.
In my youth most guys chopped bike to make them lower and lighter.
I guess it is all a matter of perspective.
My 6 ft + buddies consider my 250 physically small relative to their Harleys and Vulcans
I consider their bike physically way too big and heavy.
We both however consider our respective bikes right-sized.
We all can ride at the posted speed limits here in Ontario which are 80 , 90 , 100 km/hr.
=========================
Size ? It is all a matter of perspective.

Re: small bike
 

Hi Mike,
Yes,well, I'm 5'9"/160 lbs, & the gz is right for me too.
Firstly, it's the right height for my legs (32" trouser legs) & the right weight for comfortable handling.
Secondly, over here (Tenerife) there is so much traffic that the gz is PERFECT for nipping in & out of snarled up traffic, with enough punch to shoot out onto roundabouts with traffic coming from all directions.
Thirdly, parking is no problem. If there's nowhere to park on the road, then just park it on the pavement (or do you call them sidewalks ?) The Spanish police don't seem to worry about that sort of thing.
I must admit that if I did a lot of motorway (freeway?) riding, I'd like a faster bike, but since 99.99% of my riding is on normal roads with a limit of 50km/hr , the top speed of the gz means that I'm over the limit anyway.
I've been riding for many years now, & I don't "need" anything bigger to show off my virility, unlike a lot of the younger riders.

Re: small bike
 

I drive a stretch van for work and a dually with 34 ft trailer for rodeo. I tuck my GZ
into a stall on the horse trailer for rodeos and drive a 2300lb MR2 for recreation.

Smaller is better! You don't throw a truck or a big cruiser around but the smaller gear
loves to be *flicked* through lane changes and twisties.

Joy is and lumbering along takes, uh, joy away.

Re: small bike
 

I think the GZ 250 is just right for me. I am 5'1" and weigh 118 lbs. I feel very comfortable riding on it in traffic. I think it's quick and nimble. My motorcycle boots allow me to more or less flat foot the ground on even pavement. I do plan on eventually making the step up to a Suzuki Boulevard S40 in the next year or two and still keep my GZ 250. :rawk:

Re: small bike
 

Fossil, if I were you I'd look at the S50 instead. I don't think the move up to an S40 is all that much of a move power wise. Plus, the S50 gives you that nice v-twin exhaust note. :)

Re: small bike
 

The S 40 is a proven big single and probably a good step up for a person of your height and weight. A 27.6 inch seat height, 352 lbs dry or about 375 fueled up. We did talk to a little gal earlier this year who had one and she loved it. As suggested the S 50 is an option but here are the numbers. Seat is 27.6 inchs, the same as a 40. Dry weight is 443 with another 26.4 lbs for fuel. A test sit will never hurt but do you want a bike 4 times your weight ?? The S 50 is a better bike in my opinion and only you can/will decide when the time is right and which bike is right. In a year or 2 there will be more experience and skill in your riding career, you can dream about your next bike like the rest of us.

Re: small bike
 

And you would be dead wrong. The S40 weighs only about 50 lbs. more and has an ADDITIONAL 400 CC's. More than enough power for any "normal" rider.
I drool over the S50 every time I go through the showroom but I know it is too much bike for me......as it is for MOST people who tip the scale at only ~120. :cool:

Re: small bike
 

Those additional 400cc's really only amount to +10 horsepower vs the GZ. Thats really not that much of an increase. Especially on a bike thats almost the same size as the GZ. I added 10hp to the shadow with new pipes and hypercharger. Its peppier .... but the additional HP really didn't make it 'more bike' for me at all.

I did the jump from the GZ to the shadow (additional 200lb and 35hp increase), now thats a jump. At first it felt like going from driving an escort then getting in a mustang. I now throw that shadow around like its nothing. Took a few days and i was very used to its weight and HP increase.

Just as the S40 would feel to some .... its not that much 'more' bike than the GZ. It'll hiway cruise better and probably get up hills easier. But in the long run, i will agree with Primal - its not that much of a move power wise.

The only time you feel the difference in the weight, is when you drop it :)

My buddy has a VRod ... and sitting on that and balancing it feels no different than the GZ (mostly due to its low center of gravity). I was floored at how 'light' it felt because of how well a balanced bike it is. And his bike is heavier than mine!

Re: small bike
 

After watching the Ride Like a Pro V DVD (I highly recommend it, btw) and watching 120 lbs women man-handling big Harleys, I just don't agree that anything more than the S40 is too heavy a bike for someone under 120 lbs.

No doubt the S40 is peppier at city speeds, but from what I've read the top speed on a stock S40 is only 85ish MPH. I stand by my opinion that the move to the S40 isn't much of a move at all. But, if the shoe fits, who am I to argue?

Re: small bike
 

Right, i too have seen very small framed women riding anything from a sportster to a road king (local employee at Cycle Gear). Its all about confidence level.

Re: small bike
 

And what percentage gain is that? Just shy of 100, I think.
How about the available torque; what kind of an increase in that?

What percentage gain was it that you made to your bike?

Sometimes the bare numbers tell the story; sometimes it is the relative increase (% gain) that is more telling.

Re: small bike
 

And experience and training. How many 100 lb. women have you seen the FIRST time they grabbed a Road King ??? Trust me, for most, it is NOT a pleasant experience. I guarantee it wasn't for this (at the time) 150 lb., 5' 5" guy and a Gold Wing.
I'm sure it wouldn't be now either as the extra 30 lbs is NOT muscle !! :roll:

Re: small bike
 

Indeed.

Re: small bike
 

Easy said it first. AVAILABLE TORQUE. The S-40 may seem shy on horse power but the torque is awesome compared to the GZ. Any uphill grade that gives the GZ trouble would be a dream with the S-40. Haven't ridden the S-40 but I have had a few test sits and I like it. I have however ridden a KLR 650 for a couple days and there was definitely enough power for the highway and some spirited riding at Deal's Gap. I am sure the Suzuki would be a much better pavement rider than the KLR with it's duel sport characteristics.

Re: small bike
 

So........................he shouldn't get one because its too much bike? I'm just trying to be encouraging and say 'hey if u want to move up, dont be discouraged by weight/hp etc ...'. Bigger bikes arent the enemy and CAN be ridden by anyone with the desire to do so. Thats the point i was trying to make. Not get into percentages and all that. I just do not get why i get knocked for trying to help encourage riders to move up if they so desire.

I made a big jump from 250cc 20 hp GZ to a 750 vtwin 55hp bike. After i did it and got a few days seat time i thought to myself, sh*t, it wasnt that big of a deal. Seemed intimidating at first and yes i was doubting myself getting on this 'beast' (at the time) of a bike. But in hindsight, it just was not that big of a deal.

Re: small bike
 

Man, there are little 120 lb chicks riding HD Streetglides just like mine in my area. Little girls seem to like to ride the largest things..........

:banana:

Re: small bike
 

OK, you opened the door......I'll take a walk through it.

Here's the reason, plain and simple (from a feeble memory mind you, I'm not going searching looking for specific quotes):
It is not WHAT you say but HOW you say it. Relating your experience is fine as long as you keep it in perspective. Your experience and results may NOT be typical of ALL the riders out there. To represent that it IS ("IF I can do it, anybody can") is just simply not true and a dis-service to the person looking for advice.

To suggest or encourage a person to spend thousands of dollars on something without first doing some real, detailed PERSONAL evaluation is not a responsible thing to do. Whether it happened to YOU or not, the fact is that a lot of small people are just NOT able to comfortably handle a really big bike and some even get hurt trying.

So......saying "Go for it. It won't be a problem." to someone that you don't really know is NOT a good thing to do......IMHO.

Re: small bike
 

Dupo,

I've been on the wrong side of the majority when it comes to advice (I felt that the MSF course was overrated and largely a waste of time.) Here's my two cents if anyone cares:

1) It helps to put your advice in context. I am a reasonably coordinated 50 year old man that has ridden bicycles for years, knows how to ski and reads books. If you can't tie your shoes without assistance, think rollerblades are for daredevils, and haven't read anything since high school, well, you probably SHOULD take the MSF course. But if you are similar to me, I think you can get a lot more out of a 25 dollar book and put your money towards a better jacket.

2) If you believe in your position and aren't taking it just to get attention, be contrary or start an argument, who cares if no one agrees with you. You are doing a service to the forum readers just to take the time to articulate it and there is a lot of value in that. A lot of these issues, (bike size, windshields, ATGATT, DIY vs dealer, mods) are not black and white and there is not necessarily one right answer. I, for one, found your description of your move up to a bigger bike to be very sincere, credible and likely to be similar to what I will experience. So, it is very valuable to me. I understand if I was a 70 year old woman that had never been out of her house, that your experience might not be the best one to model myself after.

Re: small bike
 

All very true but your perception is also "clouded" by your personal reality. :skeptical: ....or is it the other way around ? :??:

If you actually WERE a 70 year old woman (or a 17 year old kid) and not an above average intelligence, middle aged man......you might very well NOT understand that. O_o

Re: small bike
 

A Harley-Davidson Sporster 883 Low is also on my list of possible upgrades in bikes. Here is the rest of my list:
Kawasaki Vulcan 500 LTD
Honda Shadow 600 (older model)
Yamaha V Star Classic 650
Buell Blast
Suzuki S40
Suzuki S50

I have sat on all these bikes. The vulcan, shadow, and star have the pegs too far forward for me. I can reach them but I feel uncomfortable. Because I have such short legs, my leg is really firm against the pipe guards. Don't care for that either. When I sat on the Suzuki S50 and kind felt the handlebars were high but okay. Too me if felt like the bike was really tall.

For me, it's down to the Sporster and the S40. I feel really comfortable sitting on both these bikes. I also tested a little bit of duck walking back and forth in the showroom. I like them because they are both narrow bikes (less than 28" inseams legs like this).

The weird thing is, it comes down to two bikes that are at opposite extremes of my list, when it comes to weight, power, and price. I am going with the S40 mainly because of the price.

If money was not such a factor (my job is not the best paying or most secure at this time) I think I would actually go with the sporster. I know the bike is over 580 lbs. in running order but I really felt comfortable on it. The weight is so low it was easy for me to take it off the kickstand and straighten up. More so that the shadow 600. The sporster's pegs, are positioned right below me, which makes me feel more confident. Maybe some day I will get the sporster, but for right now I have decided on the S40 for getting me around town, to and from work, and improving my riding skills.

Here is a pic of my on my GZ 250 at my sister's house. She does not live far from where I live.

Re: small bike
 

Just noticed the two orange lights lit up in the photo. I've seen from other photos that American law seems to require lots of lights & reflectors. I don't know of anywhere else in the world that requires all this illumination. Does this make it any safer? I'm not condemning, just asking a genuine question.

Re: small bike
 

Sounds to me like you are right on top of things. Keep up the good work! :tup:

And now a word from our sponsor...... :biggrin:
Why is it that you are seriously considering an "upgrade" at this time?
What do you need that the GZ doesn't do?

Last time it was "a year or two" but now you seem to be actively shopping.
Or is it just that chronic "new bike" virus that we all seem to have lurking in our brain somewhere ?? :biggrin:

Re: small bike
 

Yes, in a couple of ways.
When it comes to being noticed, generally more (and different color) lights are better.
It marks the single headlight as NOT being one side of a car with a burned out headlight.
It also gives you some kind of forward facing lights should the headlight fail while moving......not enough to help you see much but hopefully enough to keep you from being run over while you are trying to find a safe place to stop.

Re: small bike
 

Actually they just require the front turn signals and brake light to be illuminated at all times (atleast where i live). Reflectors are not necessary. I yanked all my reflectors and warning decals off long ago (both bikes).

And generally speaking, the more lit up you are at night the more you will be seen. I added purple LEDs to my shadow 1. to be seen better from the side and 2. because it looks wild :)

Re: small bike
 

As long as we're disagreeing with each other and voicing opinions, I'll disagree here and put it my 2 cents too. I think, Alan, you got a lot out of that course that you didn't realize. Practice with shifting, braking, twisties, collision avoidance (veering) etc, maybe came easy to you, but without practical experience and hands-on close-by supervision and advice from an instructor, I don't think you would learn that as well as from reading it out of a book. IMHO all newbies should take that course and I feel it's improper or bad to discourage it. You might need a better jacket to protect you if you don't take the course. My opinion.

All opinions should be prefaced with the fact that it's an opinion only, and preferably on what evidence it's based, and as Alan said, in context, rather than it's a rule of law or statement of fact that must be adhered to. Most of us understand that, but occasionally someone comes off seeming too strong, or, perceived by others as being too strong, that their OPINION in some gray area is better or righter than another's, sort of like my God is better, stronger, than your God. Some of us undoubtedly ARE righter than others when it comes to advice or answers based on their experience and knowledge gained, but all our OPINIONS (based on anything other than firsthand knowledge) are equal. Take them for whatever they're worth. And if we don't agree, don't start spinning wheels and burning rubber. My opinion.

Re: small bike
 

Mrlmd, I stand by my assessment of CA's MSF as largely a time waster for the average, semi-coordinated man and I've debated it elsewhere - but I'm already overly guilty of introducing off topic debates into inappropriate threads, so I won't respond to your comments here. I think my thread was MSF course or something like that. If you throw down there, I'll be happy to respond. I do feel there is considerably more merit in posting one's perspective regarding their actual experience with real events than positing about the relative strength of supernatural beings whose existence, by definition, must be taken on faith.

Re: small bike
 

I'm more on Alan's side of this. The course was good for some basic practice skills, but I could've learned those in a parking lot. I had a bit of experience on dirt bikes back when I was a kid, but, probably like Alan, I think my years of bicycle commuting and road riding prepared me more than the course did.

That's all hindsight though. I don't think it was the wrong choice because I didn't know what it would be like until I took it. I don't think it would be a "wrong" choice for anybody, but I think there are people that could get by without it. That's a highly personal decision though. I wouldn't tell somebody to skip it without personally knowing them, nor would I tell them they MUST take it without personally knowing them.

The biggest plus for me in taking the course was that it made my wife feel better about me riding, and the test at the end was accepted by the DMV for qualification in getting my license.

Re: small bike
 

Alan said , "I do feel there is considerably more merit in posting one's perspective regarding their actual experience with real events than positing about the relative strength of supernatural beings whose existence, by definition, must be taken on faith".

And Moedad, you guys from CA really like to stick together and support each other, huh? Prop 8? (just kidding). :) :roll: As long as you practice in the parking lot, fine, I just think you learn more if there's someone telling you what and how to do it, every little bit helps, And I wonder how many a..holes just get on after a 2 min. lesson and try to figure it out on the road. And how do you get it to the parking lot if no one showed you how? From a book? From the dealer's intro? IMHO, not a good idea. But........end of discussion, I hope.

I agree we shouldn't hijack the thread here to another topic and I don't want to debate this. I was just trying to say we all have our opinions and should just listen and learn from each other if we can. We will all do what we want anyway, and shouldn't get upset if someone else has a different point of view. Just make your point, with some reason behind it if you can, then let it be if someone else has a different view. No reason to argue, it's not going to solve anything.
And I don't even want to start or participate in any discussion or argument about all those supernatural beings, :??: faith, :??: etc., 'cause that's going nowhere fast, unless you want too say the GZ250 is a gift from whoever you want to believe in.

Re: small bike
 

It was a pretty close vote here, so chances are good we cancelled each other out. :whistle:

Re: small bike
 

Dupo, we need a emoticon for "Personal foul, offense, unnecessary, off-thread discussion." (I believe I will be the Rasheed Wallace of this penalty.) I'm thinking a zebra style ref, with a whistle, perhaps working out in left field and consulting with a horse of a different color.

And, yes, I wholeheartedly agree with Moedad:

Re: small bike
 

The one thing about rider training courses is the fact that they are not all the same. The more complete and involved they are the more you will learn. Some course are one Saturday afternoon in a parking lot and away you go. Others are much longer and involved with more time to develope riding skills and confidence. The course Lynda and I attended was 30 hours long and we had excellant instruction. Even after decades of riding I did learned quite a bit which translates into more skill and confidence. This also gave Lynda as a new rider the time and practice to overcome any fears about not being able to ride safely. She has become an excellant rider and enjoys the freedom of 2 wheels instead of a cage.
I am sorry for Alan who didn't get much from his riding course. But it was not a total lose I am sure.

Re: small bike
 

You are assuming that Alan was not a "total loss" to begin with !!! :poked: :crackup

(Sorry, just couldn't pass that one up.) :roll:

Re: small bike
 

The class Alan and I took was 4 hours of classroom the 1st night, and 6 hours (approx) each on a Saturday and Sunday morning. Dang thing cost $250 too (aye, there's the rub). Yours would've cost $468.75 at that rate.

Re: small bike
 

I tried to be specific in my criticism of the *CA* MSF course, which I think is pretty uniform. And, although $250 is nothing to sneeze at, it wasn't about the price. I think the course is hampered by the fact that you have people in there that have never even seen a motorcycle, some of which may even quit before they hit second gear, mixed with people like me that had already been riding for six weeks to three months and didn't need to spend the first day learning where the horn button is. Plus there's 12 people in the class. For every "exercise", you are split into groups of six, one of which sits. So divide ten hours of "training" into 5 training, 5 sitting. Add in an unnecessary lengthy description of the exercise, read word for word by the (often ex-military/reserve or LE [read "by-the-book"]) instructor from a verbose manual PLUS painfully slow re arrangement of the cones (PAINFULLY SLOW!!!) and you can knock down your potential riding time down to 4-4.5 hours. Then, the first half of most exercises and all of some others, are done ONE at a time while the other five sit. Bottom line? A 15 hour training course that involves about 2 hours of actual riding time and quite a bit of sitting on the bike. I stand by my earlier assessment, and I agree with Moe that it is mostly a feel good thing. If you have never ridden a motorcycle and just want to see what it feels like, I guess it's as good a use of $250 as any. And, yes, you do get to practice stopping a little.

Mostly, you get to take the test without going to the DMV. Yay for that.

Re: small bike
 

Yeah, and it was hot.

Re: small bike
 

Well, I think the course I took in FL. was worth the time and energy involved as well as the expense. Had to drive 50 miles to get there on a Sat & Sun, early in the morning, as well as watch/observe other newbies and oldies go through their motions, hear and try to learn from the instructor's critiques of them as well of me, and I thought it was valuable. I would not discourage any one from taking the course, each individual will get something out of it which will be useful, maybe prevent a disaster. They also offer an advanced rider course, which many come back for later after they gain a little experience, This could also be of some value. If AC had taken the course before riding a while, he may have appreciated it more, and it's harder to unlearn bad habits than to develop new ones. Not trying to be antagonistic, Again, just my opinion.

Re: small bike
 

OK, so the course was designed for those who "had never seen a motorcycle before".

That may be a LARGE part of your objection. Did they at least screen out those who didn't know how to ride a bicycle ?

What do you think those people, in the primary target audience thought about the course ??

It is not possible to please all the people all the time. You are apparently one of the ~5-10% for whom the course completely missed the mark. Sorry for that but I think your personal dislike for it is clouding your good judgement in not recommending it to others.

I think all here now have a clear picture of your opinion on this subject. :horse: :skull:

Re: small bike
 

I think the gz250 is a small bike relative to a harley elctra-glide or Kawa Vulcan

Re: small bike
 

The course we took was 6 hours classroom with the rest on the bikes. A class size of 6 riders and 1 instructor. The only school in the province licensed to teach other instructors too. Price was $700 big ones. We both considered it an investment in our skills and safety. I of course had to unlearn some bad habits before learning good ones. I was also the oldest most experienced rider and the only one to drop a bike when my knee hooked the handlebar while in a low speed manuever. We also spent 4/5 hours a day commuting for this course so it really was an investment for us. The smaller class size was a big bonus to everyone involved.

Re: small bike
 

Whew! I'll stop whining about my $250.