Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I'm talking about the ground that's common to both of the front turn signal bulbs. So it's the resistance (should be low) between the metal bulb holders and the bike frame. Although, if you're sure they're ok, then its entirely possible that there is a break in the ground in the harness, because I'm not sure where the ground goes to, because I'm working from the wiring diagram, and not physically tracing the wiring on the bike.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I'm going to take off the front and rear grounds on the engine and wire brush and put back on then wire brush the negative terminal on the battery. Maybe I can get .2 or .1 ohms there at least

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Worst case scenario, you could just get some universal blinkers and homewire them just enough to pass the test. Then worry about the actual OEM blinkers later... that would get your through inspection and on to bigger and better things, and buy you more time to worry about this pesky ground.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

If I can find a set that are cheap then that would be a great idea. Hopefully the wiring harness will work and I won't need to. That's good to know

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I tested a brand new 3.4 watt 14volt mini bulb ohms I got 5.5ohms not 42? it was on the 200 ohms scale

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

using the formula : power (watts)= volts X amps, and transposing this formula: 3.4/14 gives 0.243 amps

Using the formula power (watts) = I²R, i.e. 3.4 = 0.243² X R, i.e. 3.4 = 0.06 X R, and transposing this formula, 3.4/0.06 = 56?

You got 5.5?. so the numbers pan out, so I reckon you've just got the decimal point in the wrong place. :2tup:

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Brilliant!!! That's blown my cosmic mind.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

no math its just what my meter said 5.5 or 5.6 ohms on the lowest ohms scale of 200. Same setting I have been using on all the other grounds too.

But that would mean that may meter is off on other readings too. If this is true then the very best ohms reading on grounds of 0.3 or 0.4 ohms means 30 or 40 ohms for the best ground.

The math sounds and looks right I had some of those math questions in the nuclear navy school I went to years ago(I didn't make it through, I was a machinist mate because I score higher on mechanical stuff on the ASVAB test)......most I remember is V= IR voltage is equal to I times Resistance and then rearrange to figure other ways.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

The only tie between the right and left directionals is the indicator bulb. That is why the problem goes away when you remove the bulb. The same problem arises when you have a single indicator bulb and convert your directionals to LED lights. The circuit resistance changes cause both sides to flash. There is a fix for this problem that will probably work in your case. it is to convert the indicator bulb socket to a straight plus/neg. It involves diodes and some wiring. On page 126 of the J&P Cycles catalogue they sell a ready made kit to convert the socket. It's only $8 plus shipping and little bit of splicing. I converted my rear lights on the VStar to LED and will have to install this kit if/when I do the front. Link is below. It is in the lower right hand side of the pages.

Diode Kit for Metric Cruisers


:)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Makes sense it should work in my case, the power seems to back feed to the other turn signal. Its weird that I'm just trying to get regular mini bulbs 1.2, 1.7, and 3.4 watt in there and its the same thing. It would make more sense to me if I was trying LED lights.

What I don't understand is on the Chinese 150cc scooter I had, I put in LED bulbs in the rear and higher wattage bulbs in the front to be a little brighter. Headlights were two 25watt bulbs I went to 2 40watt bulbs.

I know in most scooters the headlights are A/C powered meaning they don't come on until you have the bike running. When you turn the key the brake lights and signals work normal even hazard light switch causes both to blink at the same time like it should. Then when you start in up the headlights come on.
Plus side was you didn't have to worry so much about running the battery down leaving the key ON like on a motorcycle where the headlights come on and is D/C powered.

So I'd say in a D/C powered lighting setup everything is a lot more critical to work just right. I miss that scooter I learned so much from it on the Itistheride forum and scootdawg forum over the one year I had it. Though it was a big pain having to tinker a lot and check every little thing, but parts were cheap. A brand new carb. costs about $30 for a 150cc scooter, belt driven, automatic clutch, CVT transmission.
I knew I didn't want to go the Chinese scooter route again after a piston rod went through the engine case despite my changing the oil very often. I didn't want to get a Burgman so I went with the GZ.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I got that cable harness coming in tomorrow so I'll replace that and go from there. But actually I'll try to get a buy a diode and solder it like the directions say with a ground wire. That way I don't waste time and effort taking out my wiring harness just to put in the "new" one. When the diode kit should work.

My woman is telling me to take it to a mechanic because I'm spending so much time on it. I'd rather try DIY and spend a lot less money.

My experience with things like this is, I'd take it there and leave it for them to look at it, then they will tell me I need to buy some high priced parts then the cost of labor to fix it. Then find out they did something very simple and are charging me a lot anyway.

This is mainly car mechanics at some shops, I can't really say for motorcycle mechanics.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Instructions to that Diode kit.

http://www.jpcycles.com/instructions/pdf/ZZ38200.pdf

A diode would be like a check valve in a pipe, allows flow in only one direction. Though a mechanical check valve is known to have a little back flow until fully seated shut.

So as I understand it, with a diode and a ground at the turn signal indicator bulb connection it will allow flow only to the turn signal selected and still light up the indicator bulb. Without that annoying problem I have.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

If you look at my drawing of the circuit, you'll see that with the switch in one position, power flows throught the warning light, left to right. With the switch in the other position, power flows right to left. So where do you put the diode? :??: :cry: There's no ground terminal at the warning light.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Correct. With the kit you are putting a diode on each feed and creating a "Y" connection. This will feed the positive 12v to one side of the light socket and not backfeed on the opposite circuit. You then add a ground to the opposite side of the socket and the bulb socket acts like a plain old bulb socket.


:)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

So long as you get the current flow (value) correct, so that the flasher unit functions correctly, and also shows up any fault in the circuit (as it's designed to do)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I know what you're saying. But when he takes the bulb out both circuits (left and right) work correctly. One of the four bulbs could be wrong or internally damaged. Since they work correctly he can use the diode kit to isolate one side from the other and still have his indicator. It is also reversable.


:)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Exactly. Actually the kit has two diodes, one at each red wire, one for the left side and one for the right side. That should do the trick !! Hope it works.

One word of caution - the diode kit instuctions specifically say that they are for LED indicator bulbs, which are a lower wattage than the regular indicator bulb.
The diodes may not be rated for the 3.4W indicator bulb. If they should burn on you (the bulb will give a little or no flash, and then appear dead) go to Radio Shack and buy two of their diodes.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I went to radio shack yesterday and got 2 12volt diodes zener type. I messaged a friend and he said he said that's the kind I don't want to use. Zener type "leak" by is what I got out of it.

So I'm going back there and getting a different type. That was the only 12volt type they had. But there is one for higher voltage I'll try it. A lot of the diodes in the drawers couldn't handle 3.4watts.
So I'm going to get the higher voltage rated one. I don't have too much choice unless I drive more miles to get to a different one.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I found out also my GE2425 multimeter reads 0.3 ohms when I test the testers together. So I just subtract 0.3 from readings now.

I watched that video where the guy uses 2 LEDs and a 1 Kilo ohm resistor and the broken bulb in the socket.

I'm going to radioshack and getting some diodes and trying different ones if need be. I'm using the same 3.4watt bulb so its just putting in the 2 diodes in the one side of the wire and 2 wires to the harness.

Question? Which wire to which part of the harness?

Yesterday I had the new ground wire to a splice to the ground wire in the headlight. Then I had one diode wire to the left side turn signal wires and the other to the right side.

I'm not sure of which wire it should be one of the two wires on the turn signals or what.

Directions just say "2 red wires to the wiring harness" very vague. I don't want to get it wrong.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

[attachment=0:1gkg46dd]3.jpg[/attachment:1gkg46dd]

These are the diodes that I use for 12v work. The code on them is IN4007 DC. They look big in the picture, but they're actually about 5 millimetres long.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

the ones I just got are 50volt rated and are the same colors, the black and gray. They are IN4001 if I remember right. I didn't have too much choice it was that or higher voltage diodes.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

So I tried it out I cut the socket off and wired ground to the green wire and the 2 diodes and black on the other wire.

I did it both ways with the diodes both going either direction. Both same direction.

I tried all the combinations for connecting the 2 diode wires to the harness: All grounds, Right light green and left to brown, Right light green and Left to black. Then all the other combinations between the right dark green and light green and left brown and black wires.

Same problem or worse.....no signal lights. I've had where I had just right side and no left blinker. No left and just right side.

Signal indicator light on and both on. All sorts of combinations, but no fix to my problem.

On the socket wires I tried with and without the bulb. I even bought the 1kilo ohm resistor and 2 LED's to put together if I got it to work.

Socket wires I had the ground side connected the signals wouldn't work. Mind you I tried all sorts of combinations of moving wires around. It just doesn't work for me

On the diode side of the socket wire I wired and soldered the 2 diodes in parallel then a wire going to each Left or Right side wires I mentioned earlier.

I tried even just having the 2 diodes just go off the signal indicator socket wire and to their wires so it would be the same as just making a Y with the 2 diode wires going to the harness.

So now I'm to my other plan. So far I removed my original wire harness and I am putting in the used 2005 GZ wiring harness I bought off Ebay for $22. Had to take a break its getting dark where I am its 7pm eastern time. So I'll be putting up my 6 foot 3 bulb lamp so I can finish and still see outside.

Also I didn't mention my rear engine ground I moved it from behind the front sprocket cover on the engine on a long bolt- to the right side on an engine bolt and I get 0.3 ohms on it and my other ohms reading went down too. Its a lot easier to get to. I had to take off the sprocket cover to and use a long screw drive socket to get to it before. Even after this I still have the same problem- alternating turn signals.

So hopefully, hopefully infinity.....this harness works this time. Only other thing I haven't tried is trying a brand new Denso turn signal Relay that's next to the fuse box. This has been the biggest pain just to fix this dumb ass problem

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

OK here is how to hook up the diodes:

Put the two diodes in series between the two wires coming from the harness to the indicator bulb. Make sure that the sides with the white circles (the white circle on the diode's bodies) are closest together.

If this is your diode, and it conducts current to the right, the white circle should be on the right side:
-----###|----
where "-###|-" = diode, and "------" = wire, and "|" is the white circle.


When you're done, it should look like this:
(left from harnass)-------###|------x-----|###------(right from harnass)

At the "x", connect one wire to the indicator bulb. The other wire from the indicator bulb goes to ground:
x--------(bulb)-------(ground)

PLease note that you don't have to specifically worry which wire comes from the left or the right. Because the diodes conduct electricity downstream from both sides. To the bulb.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I reckon it'd work better with separate warning lights for left & right blinkers, but that's not how the GZ works. Let's see if the new harness works, without this "fix". It seems awfully complicated, when I'm still convinced that it's a ground problem. If the fault is found, there's no way this diode set up is needed. That's not the way everybody else's signals work. :??:

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I replaced the wire harness and same thing. I know at least that's not the problem.
I took the rear fender off enough to see better and saw on the left side there is an exposed wire going to the left turn signal. On that side grounds measure 1.0 to .9 ohms. It was late last night at 10pm so I packed stuff up.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Ok I think I get it! So only one wire to the indicator bulb because the other wire goes to ground? In this way the "X" ground point gets the current to go to the bulb. And the bulb is grounded.

I think this will be easier than the setup I was trying before.

Yeah in the first place I shouldn't have to go through all this when the wiring is supposed to work normal.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

You're getting there. The x is not a "ground" point. It is the spot where the one wire to the bulb connects to the two wires from the white-circle sides of the two diodes.
The other wire from the bulb goes to ground.

Just for clarity, note in my "line drawing" the diode on the left points in the opposite direction as the diode on the right. They both only let current flow to the 'x', and not through the other diode. The white circles mark the 'downstream' side of the diodes.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I mis typed or something. But I understand the indicator bulb gets its power from either side signal wire and diodes prevent back fed current and the other end of ind. bulb is grounded.

lost the turn signal cover, and cutting grass. been wanting to do this wiring.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

So where does that leave us? Did you get lampholders with the harness. If so, we can rule that out of the equation. If you used the original lampholders, that could be the problem. Did you thoroughly check the bulbs, sufficiently to rule that out? Unfortunately, I can't tell EXACTLY what you've done, or not done, when replacing the harness. This seems like one time I'd need a hands on approach to assess the problem, but one thing's for sure, you're doing something wrong. I don't mean that in a nasty way, but something's out of synch, and, apart from ground faults, I can't begin to fathom it out any further over the computer. :)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Same bulb sockets just the main harness is different from original. I just meant the main harness IE the headlamp plug and both leads to turn signals all the way to the end which is the ground to the negative terminal to the battery, brake light, and plugs to starter, the fuse box itselt and rear signal lead.

I used the same turn signal relay. and its the same turn signals and bulbs.

I taped up an exposed wire inside the rear fender going to the rear left turn signal "arm". I'll take off that "arm" next, the wiring looked intact but I'll check it again.

Earlier today I checked ohms from the turn signal indicator wires and its still 1.1 ohms.

It would be really nice if one of you guys lived A LOT closer to me to help out. I'm at the end of my patience with this, I could try getting local help from someone off craigslist, I found some pretty good guitar players that way. Too bad I don't have any buddies who still live in my area with electrical or motorcycle know how.

Yep, can only do so much from text on a computer screen.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

A thought I had was to hook up a diode in between the two signal wires on both sides to prevent feedback.

The way I did was tested it with wrapping wire around one turn signal lead on both sides like explained above to a diode with current flowing to the signal indicator bulb and other wire of bulb to ground. It lit up this way and could get it to blink like normal by changing the wiring.
Putting diodes in between the wires would keep current flowing just to the turn signals.

The very first day I had my bike inspected, the other car mechanic mentioned he had a friend who wired his turn signals with toggle switched.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Why don't you just order that ready made adaptor from J&P Cycles and wire it in. There is no current draw involved other than the indicator bulb. The right side wire and the left side wire get wired to the wires with the dioes and the "Y" configuration gets hooked up to one side of the socket and the ground to the other. It changes the setup from a metric setup to a US type setup is all it does. You'd be done right now and happily riding instead of working on the bike.


:)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Yeah riding it right now with an inspection sticker would be great. I'll order it, its just 8 bucks. I tried making my own to save on some time, but now its been days after that. But anyhow I'll try it, then go from there

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Anything yet?


:)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Hmmmm...leaving us hanging. lol


:)

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Hope he's OK.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

My internet has been out for a couple weeks and my phone isn't "smart" enough to post but I can read this page from it.

Anyway, That diode kit mention before from J&P cycles I couldn't get it to work.

But, even better news is I found out that in Virginia where I live and North Carolina where I am close to.....Motorcycles DO NOT NEED TURN SIGNALS! But if they are installed they must work! So I took the front and rear signals off with no lens for the turn signal indicator light too.

It passed! He told me I just need new front brake pads and not to forget.

I got home and put the turn signals back on and now I am not so frustrated and I rode to and from my work 2 days so far. About 40 miles roundtrip so 80 miles so far.

I haven't had any other problems just feel so much better being able to ride legally now. I did a max speed test on my local highway rode and got up to 66mph on GPS. Which is great for me I don't need speeding tickets and don't have much traffic to deal with on my route. Also I weigh 240 pounds.

This GZ is sooo much better than that 150cc china scooter I had and top speed was 55-58mph gps. I had 65mpg on a 1.6 gallon tank. Now I have a 2.9 gallons before reserve and I had to fill up every 2 days or 90 miles on that scooter.
I'm anxious to ride a few more trips to/from work to see what my gas mileage will be. I have about 5 miles of 55mph road then the rest 15miles on a trip is 45mph or less.
On my Sentra I get 32-36mpg and have maintained 40mpg hypermiling for a whole week.
When I get some more time I need to try that diode kit again, but I got my front disc brakes on my car and GZ to do first.

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

s

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

I didn't mean to have this on more than once. Sorry

Re: Rejected inspection: front turn signals
 

Ok. Maybe I can help you to get the kit from J&P to work. Lay out the "Y" harness you got from J&P so that one of the wires with the diode is to your left and one of the wires with a diode is to your right. Cut the wire on the left that "feeds" the indicator socket and attach it to the wire with the diode on the left. Next cut the wire on the right that "feeds" the indicator socket and attach it to the wire with the diode on the right. Now you have the indicator socket with two wires on it. Connect the remaining wire on the J&P harness that has no diode to one side of the wires on the indicator socket. It doesn't matter which one. That will now be the 12v feed to the socket. Connect the remaining wire on the indicator socket to a ground. Put the bulb in and all should work correctly. Let us know how you make out.


:)