Front Brakes and Brake Fluid

[one]

This seems pretty easy to replace brake pads (front). The question is, where should I purchase pads and does any work need to be done to the front rotor? Brake fliud, replacing fluid, do I drain - fill with new - bleed - fill - bleed. then, how do i know if there is air in the line?

what else needs to be considered?


if this is in another section of the site, please let me know.

[BadMojo]

You can get all the information you need from the Service Manual. Just download it and look through it. Hope this helps.

http://www.gz250bike.com/viewtopic.php?t=30

[one]

i noted and read that portion of the service maunal. i know that there are tricks of the trade when doing repairs such as this. when I mean tricks of the trade i mean "do's" and "don'ts".

the fluids seems easy to obtain from any auto parts store, it's the actual pads (where to purchase). specifically if any other items should be addressed at that time. with bleeding, does everything get drained then new fluid or new fluid and when bleeding?

[Dupo]

All you really need to do is replace the pads. Draining the brake fluid is not necessary. Just take the pads off, compress the cylinder with a small C clamp (so you can get the new ones on and over the rotor). Inspect the rotor for anything out of the ordinary and replace the pads.

I bought mine from the dealer, but they are the Suzuki brand and arent that great and way overpriced. Badbob knows where to get good ones. I'm sure he'll post here the location/brand/part #.

BTW im moving this thread :)

[one]

Dupo - sorry for posting in the wrong spot and thanks for moving.

I'll wait for the other email for a place to purchase the pads from BadBob, this is a 2001 GZ if not mentioned before. Maybe all years are the same, the manual on the website is a '99 and I assume that it is good for the '01 too.

You're in Allentown and I am in the Montgomerville area. I have the bike in for a general look over prior to winter and misc. adjustments, (dealer in my local area - unamed), told me that front pads are slightly less then two-thirtyseconds - just under passing inspection - inspection is good for about 10 months or so. Dealer says replace pads and fluid as fluid is starting to discolor. I figure fluid is maybe $5 at the most plus an easy job, so I would do that while replacing the pads myself.

Have you replaced your pads and fluid yourself? Has anyone? I am looking for "things to look for" while doing this job. I have all sorts of tools "C" clamp, yes. Are there anyother tools that I should know about prior to starting this job?

You guys are great! Who else can I bounce things like this off? The dealer?

[Dupo]

Well how does the brake fluid really look to you? If it looks like cream soda (the light tan kind, very clear) then its fine. If its looking cloudy or more bronze then thats why they are probably saying to change it.

I've done my pads several times because of a squeal i couldnt get rid of. Pad change is very simple. Really isnt anything to look for than the obvious cuts into the rotor. Pad job should take no more than 20 minutes. I havent changed the fluid though. Although, that itself should be an easy job as well. Just follow the manuals instructions and you should be fine. Theres really nothing to look for with the fluid change cept maybe looking for dirt/rust after you drain it into a clear jar. If all is well then no worries.

Tools, nothing out of the ordinary. Get out your smaller C clamps and metric set!

Oh one thing i thought of, dont forget to take the anti-vibration backings off the old pads so you can put them on the new set. Thats one thing i missed the first time i did my bike.

BTW-

I go down to montgomeryville all the time (Souderton right at 309 actually) to see my father. I check out Montgomeryville Cycle all the time when i am down there to see whats new ;) Theres a run i take near you from my area that takes me along the Unami Creek by the BSA camps. Real nice area there to ride. Took some pics and video too! Can check em out here http://www.dupo24.com/shadow_album/index.html The ride photos are in "unami creek ride". The rest are just shots of my bike.

Maybe sometime we can meet up and shoot the breeze :)

[one]

Dupo,

The brakes were recommended to be changed as well as the fluid, brakes more so. Cost to do the brakes at the shop was around $60 +/- and I believe that included parts and labor, labor being $60/hr seems like it is a 20 minute job. I am sure that I'll take my time so it should take maybe an hour. Your point on the "anti-vibration backing" is exactly what I was looking for. What do you think the cost ofthe pads would be?

Thanks -

[Dupo]

Well from Blackmans they ran me almost $30. I've seen pads on Ebay for $15. Cant say for sure what they are on the net to order, might want to check www.bikebandit.com (http://www.bikebandit.com)

Also remember, the dealer wants to make $, so they will say things of this nature to generate more buisness. Its nothing new. Id take their word on the pads, but not so much on the fluid (just a guess). Still, if you want to do it, go for it. It would be good learning experience for you.

The anti vibration backing - when you take the pads off, look on the back part (metal side) for a piece of black plastic against the metal backing of the pad. Just take it off and put it on the new pads. Cant miss them, unless previous owner missed them on a prior brake job. You should be able to see them if you look at the brake pad from the exhaust side of the bike.

Honestly, once you have done this job - changing pads only takes like 10 minutes. First time, yea, take your time. But its a real quick job to do.

[Badbob]

These are the pads I use. They are ceramic and don't squeal. They also are much better brakes than the stock pads. Go to http://www.denniskirk.com and search for the part number 19-799. They cost $27.95.

http://upload4.postimage.org/767484/Suzuki_GZ250_Ceramic_Brake_PadsDennis_Kirk_01.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/767484/photo_hosting.html)

One issue you might encounter when changing the pads is pushing the piston back in. You may need to do this if the pads are badly worn or you didn't pay attention to the manual instructions and squeezed the brake lever with the caliper off. Its very hard to get the piston to move by hand. There is a tool made for doing this but a C Clamp with padded jaws will do the trick.

If you decide you need to change the fluid be very careful. Brake fluid is a pretty good paint remover. Be sure to use the correct fluid they don't mix. Use only new fluid from a sealed can. Brake fluid likes water and it its been open and exposed to humidity there will be some moisture in it. I would pump enough new fluid through the system to flush out any old stuff. This would also be a real good time to to change any old or worn brake parts like those rubber brake lines. Inspect them closely and if you see cracks or anything else that looks suspicious you might want new ones.

[one]

badbob

i purchased the OEM pads from bikebandit, 32 plus change with shipping. i do want to switch out the brake fliud at the same time. reading about it, it's recommended to connect a "cleaner hose" to the line then drain into a glass jar. what is a "cleaner hose?" i know that is by passes the wheel, brakes, tire and extends past the bike for an easier job. just wondering if a special hose is required.

otherwise, it seems that you add fliud to the until the fluid runs clear into the jar, manual says to use DOT4 - again, i just wonder about this bleeder hose.

from the posts, it seems that i'll be fine doing this meself and thanks for the help. (I edited this on 11/11/06 - 0730 EST)

[Dupo]

a 'cleaner hose'. just a piece of hose that you slip over the nipple of the bleeder screw and into the jar. thats all. keeps it from spitting out all over the place.

[Badbob]

Maybe these will help:

http://www.dansmc.com/MC_repaircourse.htm
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcnuts/braketech.motml
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/maintenance/brakes.htm
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tech/brake_inspection/
http://www.spokes-women.org/Technical_C ... eeding.htm (http://www.spokes-women.org/Technical_Cornor/brake_bleeding.htm)

[one]

this is perfect, i did a few google searches and found one or two of these sites.

there is a small conflict between the GZ250 manual and what some sites say. specifically, GZ manual says to "suck up the old brake fluid as much as possible" then add fluid and close up the system, while some other sites say to add the cleaner hose and open the valve then add fluid to the reservoir - pumping the brake (adding fluid) until the fluid is clear and no small bubbles then close the valve, top off the reservoir and close up the system.

I ordered brakes from bikebandit and I'll do the fluid after after new pads are installed.

there is one consistent thing that is mentioned which is that the fluid should not touch anything (corrosive)on the bike (paint, plastic, metal, etc.) attracts water and everything should be clean before starting.

[Badbob]

Squeaky clean as in a white glove inspection. A tiny piece of grit in the wrong place will cause problems. All hydraulic systems are like this. You might find something good just googling for brake bleeding how to info. After all they are all basically the same.

I think I would suck it out like the manual says so I can see if there is anything in there I need to clean out. Like water or corrosion for example. If it's used and it has been stored outside you never know what you might find.

[one]

pads were in the mail. reread the directions and went to work. one allen wrench two bolts a c-clamp little bit of prying and all done.

maybe 20 minutes. Next will be he fliud over the weekend. i am not sure where to dispose of the fluid.

i'll keep everyone posted.

[one]

ok, all done. new DOT 4 fluid. it wasn't too bad.

I did things slightly different then the M-O-M.

I cleaned everything really well before starting, put old rags around all items like it was surgery.

anyway, i was not able to find anything to suction out the old fluid so all i could do was pump it through... as the reservoir emptied i added new fluid, i did this maybe 8 to 9 times until fluid was totally clear and the 8 to 9 times included an extra 3 to 4 times to make sure all was clean - then closed the system, put the cap back on and started the bleed process. the whole thing was actually pretty easy.

The bake bleeding kit from Pepboys i bought was not needed as i found some clear tube at the home depot (10' for about $1.90) that was able to fit over the nipple really well.

Anyone have an idea how much new pads and brake fluid would be at the dealer? I would say I put $47 into it: I ask as I am wondering if I saved any money this time or if was a learning expierence.
$33 Pads from bikebandit.com
$5 DOT 4 brake fluid
$7 for 8mm open end wrench from The Home Depot
$1.9 for clear plastic fluid

Atleast I'll have a new tool forever and tube for another 5 or 6 brake bleeds.

Maybe I used 1/4 of the fluid. I have no use for it and it goes bad, anyone near Northwales / Ambler, PA that wants it?

[Dupo]

Glad to hear everything went ok. Yes, you saved yourself alot of money by doing this yourself.

If i needed brake fluid that bad i would take it off your hands (i used to live in Ambler, sure miss that town and its xmas songs playing on the outside speakers).

Are you by chance showing up to the Polar Bear run at MontCycle Center in December? Its not that they 'go' anywhere from there, they kinda pick spots to meet up with other polar bear runners for points and montgomery cycle is one of their meet ups in december. I might go just to check out the atmosphere with these guys. They seem to run all kinds of bikes, sport to cruisers. If you are interested i'll get you the 411.

[Badbob]

Maybe you can take the old brake fluid to AutoZone or if not try a brake repair shop. Repair shops have to have some sort of disposal system.

[one]

disposal was not a problem. I went to my local Exxon and they took the 3 to 4 oz, no problem. What I was describing was the balance of the DOT 4 int eh bottle i bought, they did not want it since they use a different brand. (who knows)

[GZ&Viragocouple]

Good post about the brakes and fluid. Just one thing i wanted to add to this whole thing is remember NEVER mix the different types of brake fluid in your resevoir. I.E. DOT3 and DOT4. This WILL lead to a very costly repair job to your entire brake system. The different chemical make up of these fluids causes them to react against eachother producing a gel like sludge in every component that fluid is in contact with. What usually happens is the brakes fail to release. A friend of mine found out the hard way and it cost him over 500 bucks till it was all fixed up. (He rides a HD-softtail custom)

Gotta say this forum is pretty cool, Even though i don't post much(YET) i really like how everyone is helpful and gets along. Thats rare these days :rawk:

[Dupo]

Yes, VERY good point on mixing brake fluids.

DELETED

[BillJ]

I replaced my front brake pads today - thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I found that I wasn't able to get the brake caliper off of the roter without removing the fender. Since I didn't see any mention of this in previous posts I thought I might be doing something wrong, or is it such an obvious step that it didn't need mentioning?

Bill Johnson
Kennesaw, GA
2004 GZ250
4,000 mi.

[Dupo]

Well when i did mine i did not have to remove the fender. Maybe you just didnt give it the right twist when pulling it off :) I wouldnt worry too much about it though, doesnt hurt to take the fender off, probably protected it against hitting it with a wrench lol.

Welcome to the forum btw :rawk:

[Water Warrior 2]

BillJ, just gotta ask. Do you only have 4000 miles on the bike as the signature indicates. Seems to me if this is true then you are getting some poor mileage out of brake pads. I don't know the history of the bike or your riding habits etc. but that just seems like excessive wear. Could you put my mind to rest as I would not want to be changing pads and probably doing a rotor every third time all that often on a bike that is claimed to be economical.

[BillJ]

I bought my GZ250 about a year and a half ago with 1,100 miles on it - so 3,000 miles belong to me. I typically ride to work when it isn't too cold or wet and in the Atlanta area that translates to about 8 months out of the year. My commute is exteremely short - about 1.5 miles - and my other riding consists of around town stuff and some "longish" rides on the weekends of about 50 to 60 miles. I'd say that given my riding habits that my brake usage is probably higher that average.

That being said, when I took the old pads off, the right pad had been wearing unevenly, causing the pad backing material to contact the rotor.

Also, my mileage is actually a little over 4,500. What is the typical life expentancy of the brake pads, anyway?

Hope this helps,

Bill Johnson
Kennesaw, GA
2004 GZ250
4,567 miles

[Water Warrior 2]

BillJ, how long do pads last ? Plain and simple, I don't know. I have no real experince with the life expectancy of pads. Maybe I expect too much from brakes on a bike in terms of mileage. Maybe another member with lots of miles and smiles can jump in here.

[Badbob]

I've used two sets of pads in 15.000 miles. One factory original and one set of ceramic. Both sets were changed before they were all the way to the bottom of the wear groove because I was going on a trip and didn't want to take a chance of my brakes giving up in the middle of nowhere.

For me I would estimate that the brake pads last about 9,000 miles.

The pads wear unevenly and I've been told that if you rotate them they will last longer. I have never tried this myself.

[Water Warrior 2]

BadBob, thanks for the input. That kind of wear on pads sounds more to my liking. Less wrenching and more riding.

[Badbob]

BadBob, thanks for the input. That kind of wear on pads sounds more to my liking. Less wrenching and more riding.

I've always been easy on brakes. I'm not really sure why. How many miles they last depends a lot on how you ride and the conditions you ride in.

[trykemike]

Bad Bob I have a 2002 suzuki Marauder 250 ( that is the canadian designation ) are the SBS pads that you refer to the same for my bike ? The pads on my bike are about 1/16 '' thick and squeak.

[jonathan180iq]

Yes, those pads will work for your bike. They may have a different name, but they are exactly the same.

[jnortonsr]

I bought my GZ a year ago and change the pads with EBC replacements and they lasted only 3000 miles. Replaced them last weekend with OME pads from Oakland Suzuki (40.00)

The one complaint I have is that on hot days, and they are always hot in August in CA that they seem to fade fast in the city. Stopping and starting every block because of a stop light isn't great for the breaks.

[Badbob]

Bad Bob I have a 2002 suzuki Marauder 250 ( that is the canadian designation ) are the SBS pads that you refer to the same for my bike ? The pads on my bike are about 1/16 '' thick and squeak.

I believe they are.

[trykemike]

Hey Bad Bob I changed the front brake pads this past saturday and used SBS as you had suggested. A great improvement nice quiet stoppin now.

Thanks

[bigwonton]

Just wanted to resurrect this thread again...

I just finished changing out the front brake pads to the SBS 581HF Ceramic pads. Install went easy and I was able to use the caliper piston tool for my car on the GZ250 caliper to get it pushed back.

They have apparently changed packaging and here's what the new one looks like:

http://www.postimage.org/gxUQGli.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxUQGli)

When I took the old pads off, I was surprised to find that they were also made by SBS. I assume these aren't the factory originals? However, I couldn't find anything about these pads in the SBS catalog. The writing on the back of the pad says, "SBS-S-40GF" and "550095". Anybody know anything about these pads?

http://www.postimage.org/PqmatI9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqmatI9)

[Badbob]

The only thing I can find on either of these part numbers is in Japanese (I think).

All of the Parts Unlimited parts I have seen are some other manufacturers part repackaged. I don't know for sure what the story is with them. Their catalogs are online all over the place usually at dealer sites.

[patrick_777]

Google translates most of the sites it pulls up to auction sites in Japan. These could actually be the manufacturer OF the OEM pads that Suzuki used originally. They may just repackage them over here as Suzuki parts.

Wild theory here. Just ignore me.

[GeeZee250]

Just ordered the part# 19-799 from denniskirk.com. $28.95 and free shipping. Such a deal.

[alantf]

The last ones I had fitted were the equivalent of $45 from the dealer, with a fitting charge of $7.50. Problem is, it's so hilly here that a set only lasts me around 3000 miles. :cry:

[trykemike]

I just replaced the brake fluid with the help of my wifw. ( not mechanically inclined ) Brakes work great.

use an 8mm wrench for bleeder valve.


1 - cover any bike parts near the brake master cylinder.

2 - use a hair dryer to heat the end of plastic drain tube

3 - use a turkey baster to empty the resevoir.

4 - take your time.

5 - follow the service manual instructions

6 - bleed twice top up as required.

7 - test while sitting on bike.

8 - take a test ride.

10 - use 8 mm wrench for the bleeder valve.

[blaine]

When you bleed your brakes don't save what fluid is left for more than a couple of months.Fluid once opened absorbes air .If used later you will always have a spoungy leaver or pedel.

[Water Warrior 2]

When you bleed your brakes don't save what fluid is left for more than a couple of months.Fluid once opened absorbes air .If used later you will always have a spoungy leaver or pedel.
Actually Blaine, the brake fluid absorbs moisture. Not good by any stretch of the imagination. Moisture will do a lot of damage and lead to failure.

[blaine]

DUH!!! I thought moisture,but wrote air. Brain fart.THANKS.

[Rookie Rider]

I just received my brake pads. The ones from denniskirk.com. the part # that badbob mentioned. My question is, are they really that small and thin looking ?

[Water Warrior 2]

I just received my brake pads. The ones from denniskirk.com. the part # that badbob mentioned. My question is, are they really that small and thin looking ?
Yes, but they will do the job.

[Rookie Rider]

Shit, wow. Ok !!

[Water Warrior 2]

Shit, wow. Ok !!
No shit involved. It's brake lining material actually. :lol: :lol: Carry on.

[mrlmd1]

People keep asking "how many miles do brake pads last"? It should be "How many stops can I make"? At 15 mph, at 30 mph, panic stops at 60mph?
The miles on the bike are irrelevant if you make mostly longer distance trips. If you are riding around town stopping at every corner or in traffic, they will last less, obviously. It all depends on how and how often you use the brakes, so the varied answers are almost meaningless.

[Rookie Rider]

Ive been practicing engine breaking, seems to really slow me down when shifting from 2nd to 1st gear only. I can see that engine breaking would save brakes and keep them longer.

[jonathan180iq]

Don't use first as an engine break. It's a small gear and you might slam it into gear too early one day when you're not thinking.

If you're going slow enough to turn or roll at all. You need to be in 2nd gear. Unless you are stopped and need to get started again, there is really no reason to use 1st.

From 5th down, feel free to engine brake all you want, granted that you don't shift into a lower gear too soon. Just don't do that with 1st.

[Rookie Rider]

Hmmmm, i didnt know that. I cant really feel the bike slowing down when engine breaking in a higher gear, 5th to 4th etc. Im still not sure how much to blip the throttle when engine breaking from those higher gears. Trying to match the speed.

[Rookie Rider]

How far down should the back brake peddal go down before slowing the bike down ? Mine goes down quite a bit.

[blaine]

How far down should the back brake peddal go down before slowing the bike down ? Mine goes down quite a bit.
Not much.About a inch or so.You can adjust the amount of travel by turning the kurlled nut on the rod at the rear wheel.You can also adjust the height of the pedal by a adjuster under the pedal.If you adjust the height of the pedal,check the operation of the brake light switch.Your brake light should come on ith very little pressure on the pedal.
:) :2tup:

[Rookie Rider]

Yeah i adjusted the hieght, didnt know about the nut. Thank you.

[Rookie Rider]

How long does it take to break in new pads ?

[blaine]

How long does it take to break in new pads ?
Not very long.About 10 to 15 normal stops are enough to mate the new pads to the rotor. :) :cool:

[Rookie Rider]

Ok, thank you !!

[Rookie Rider]

How the hell do you get the pads off ?? I took the 2 bolts out and have the whole piece hanging but cant get the pads out/off.

[alantf]

You need an allen key (offhand, can't remember the size) to unscrew the long bolt that goes through the top hole of the pads. See the new pads for the position in the caliper.

[Rookie Rider]

Thanks, i did it, wasnt sure if i was supposed to take the screw out. Bit i did. I put grease on back of brake pad and then put that flat metal bracket thing against brake pad then a little more grease on that then installed pads. Brake lever feels a little better. Less squishy. No squeeks.

[Water Warrior 2]

Sounds like a job well done. I can honestly say I've never replaced pads on a bike.............ever. Brake shoes on the rear once on a dirt bike, that's it. I feel blessed and so out of touch sometimes. :lol:

[Rookie Rider]

That was my first time WW.

[Water Warrior 2]

That was my first time WW.


:lol: Bout time you lost your virginity.

[jonathan180iq]

[quote="Rookie Rider":3d8teesr]That was my first time WW.


:lol: Bout time you lost your virginity.[/quote:3d8teesr]

Yeah.
The fluid is pretty messy.
Make sure you have plenty of rags lying around for clean up afterwards.
It's a tough job sometimes. Just keep squeezing until it comes out.
Once you get a firm feel to it, you'll know you're almost done.

[Water Warrior 2]

[quote="Rookie Rider":2e8vy938]That was my first time WW.


:lol: Bout time you lost your virginity.

Yeah.
The fluid is pretty messy.
Make sure you have plenty of rags lying around for clean up afterwards.
It's a tough job sometimes. Just keep squeezing until it comes out.
Once you get a firm feel to it, you'll know you're almost done.[/quote:2e8vy938]

:lol: OMG, I must have a dirty mind. I had to read that 3 times and just had to laugh. :lol:

[Rookie Rider]

Well said, lmfao. I read it 3 times too.

[blaine]

Dirty minds think alike!!!! Read it 3 times. :tongue: :) :)

[jonathan180iq]

Ahhhhh, motorcycle innuendo.

I'm glad it wasn't lost on deaf eyes.