Can you downshift multiple gears when stopped?

[bigwonton]

Here's a general question about downshifting. When I'm pulling up to a red light, I generally downshift as my speed decreases. However, sometimes in traffic, I'll have to come to a quick stop in 4th or 5th when the car in front of me decides it was to make a turn at the last minute. In these cases, I've found that the GZ250 sometimes has issues downshifting all the way into first. I'll only get down to second or third and then I'll have to let out the clutch slightly, letting it grab and then clutch again before I can finish downshifting to 1st.

Did a search and found one other rider experiencing the same issue. Is it the general consensus that this happens with the GZ250 only or is it just something to deal with for all bikes (although a friend with a Vulcan swears he can go all the way down to first from 5th or 6th)? If it's abnormal, any hints on how to remedy it?

[BigIron]

I believe its normal for the GZ. Mine has the same issue.

[Easy Rider]

I'll only get down to second or third and then I'll have to let out the clutch slightly, letting it grab and then clutch again before I can finish downshifting to 1st.


Absolutely normal for all modern bikes ......well, not sure about the "big iron", but normal for all bikes under 1000cc or so.
Nothing to worry about. It might be a good idea, however, to practice starting off the line in 2nd gear. VERY do-able if you are stock and possible even if you have a 16T front sprocket. Don't practice it a LOT though, since it is kind of hard on the clutch.

[Sarris]

I agree w/ Easy, all bikes are tough to down shift at a stop. I've come to a stop in 5th on my HD & forgotton what gear I was in and stalled, downshifted one gear & stalled, downshifted another gear & stalled, downshifted another gear & stalled ....... I think you get the idea. It really pissed off the guy in the pickup behind me.

You are using the right method of slightly releasing the clutch lever to get it to snap down.

Good luck.

:tup:

[Tonckawa]

I by mistake having started off in 3rd gear believe or not when I was first getting used to the bike. Just got confused. I thought I was in neutral (happens sometime without green indicator) and I was in 3rd.

[Littlethumper]

omg,talking about downshifting! My first ride on the road last saturday,whew! Like what sarris had said, i forgot what gear i am too on a stop thought i am on 1st, soon as i release the clutch, :oops: i stalled and i am on the middle of the intersection :blush: and stalled 3x!
I gotta get used to it yet and i was so embarrased although i am on a country road where there is few vehicles on the road so i can practice shifting gears. My bf was so pissed on me when i was on another stop(4way) when i thought i was on first gear and ended up running through it and a car just went through in front of me almost got me hit,and i almost end up to a ditch after if i didnt get to manuever the handlebar quick enough to get back on the trail! He was yelling at me telling me that i'm supposed to change to first gear when closing to a stop, but i told him, geez,its my first so i get confused, like tonckawa had said. My heart was beating so fast, so dang scared thought that i am dead on the spot! :cry:
But after a couple of mile trip, i ended up learning to downshift to 1st gear on a stop 'til we came back home safe. What i did, i just hold the clutch keep on downshifting from 5th gear 'til i get to 1st gear getting close to a stop :tup: I don't know if thats right but it works on me really good! :lol:

Drive safe...

[burbin1978]

Yeah, I try to use that same method. When going into turns I try to be in second gear going into the turn so that I don't get any kick on the upshift coming out of the turn. I always get real paranoid about not creating any kick coming out of a turn. I always think that I'll go into a slide or something if the bike were to kick too hard. I try to relate it to driving a manual trasmission automobile. I use the same methods. I have always driven manual transmission cars and trucks so getting on the bike felt pretty natural to me except you shift with your foot and clutch and throttle with your hands. Oh, and on the bike you have to shift one gear at a time, versus going staight to your gear of choice on the manual transmission on a car or truck.

[davtnn]

difficult to look cool when that happens..... but it happens to everybody.. even the experieced riders,,, just keep on truckin (and practicing )

[jonathan180iq]

While going into a turn, you want to downshift in the straight and select a gear that will carry you all the way through the turn. Shifting mid turn is a bad idea. You lose the ability to get on the throttle and add put down added traction if you need it.

[Orpheus]

While going into a turn, you want to downshift in the straight and select a gear that will carry you all the way through the turn. Shifting mid turn is a bad idea. You lose the ability to get on the throttle and add put down added traction if you need it.

Of course, the upshift in the middle of a turn when taking off from a stoplight is always fun; I typically shift a little early, before I actually start the turn, or just take off in second gear.

[samato]

Hmm, when I took the MSF course an instructor told there is no problem with upshifting in a turn. I've done it many times. Downshifting in a turn is to be avoided as it is equivalent to braking in a turn.

[Easy Rider]

Yeah, I try to use that same method. When going into turns I try to be in second gear going into the turn so that I don't get any kick on the upshift coming out of the turn.

Not sure what you mean by "kick" but I have an idea that you need more practice with clutch/thorttle control.

If you have stock gearing, 2nd gear is too low for taking a "normal" turn on pavement.
You should work on making your turns in 3rd........at least.

IMHO, you are in danger of being rear-ended if you go all the way down to 2nd...........unless you are power shifting and really keeping the revs. up.....which I'm guessing is NOT the case. ;)

[Easy Rider]

Hmm, when I took the MSF course an instructor told there is no problem with upshifting in a turn.

Very true......if you NEED to.......as with a stock GZ that would be screeming out of the corner if you don't. :roll:

If you are a conservative rider, you will probably find that a 16T front sprocket will allow you to complete that turn from a stop without shifting. I still usually make the shift but I'm going 5 mph faster when I do. :tup:

What you don't want to do is shift in the middle of a turn when you don't need to and lug the engine and potentially stall it. :cry:

[Orpheus]

[quote="Easy Rider"]
If you have stock gearing, 2nd gear is too low for taking a "normal" turn on pavement.
You should work on making your turns in 3rd........at least.
quote]

This kind of depends on the situation. I usually find myself in the higher end of 2nd gear (around 20mph) if I'm taking a "normal" turn (i.e. a 90 degree turn from one street to another), but I completely agree that 3rd is most convenient for many situations (approaching a green arrow, or a regular green light without any traffic around). Here in the PHX area, most of the side roads have "gutters" or "channels" that cross the intersections for directing the water flow during the seldom times that it rains, and it kind of necessitates entering the side roads at a little slower speed than most other non-desert cities. I find that my engine sometimes bogs down a little if I take turns in 3rd.

[Easy Rider]

If you have stock gearing, 2nd gear is too low for taking a "normal" turn on pavement.
You should work on making your turns in 3rd........at least.


This kind of depends on the situation.

Of course it does and the situation your describe is somewhat unique.
There probably are many situations where 2nd would be prudent.

Clear, dry, flat intersection without a lot of traffic or pedestrians, 2nd is not necessary and other traffic turning behind you under those conditions probably expect you to be going a bit faster.

YMMV. :tup:

[Orpheus]

[quote="Easy Rider":32z41kjr]
If you have stock gearing, 2nd gear is too low for taking a "normal" turn on pavement.
You should work on making your turns in 3rd........at least.


This kind of depends on the situation.

Of course it does and the situation your describe is somewhat unique.
There probably are many situations where 2nd would be prudent.

Clear, dry, flat intersection without a lot of traffic or pedestrians, 2nd is not necessary and other traffic turning behind you under those conditions probably expect you to be going a bit faster.

YMMV. :tup:[/quote:32z41kjr]

Yeah, you're right. Around here, you rarely find an intersection that doesn't have some type of traffic around, and these are the worst drivers that I've ever seen, so you have to be ready for every idiot around you to do something stupid. That's probably one of the main reasons for the differences in turning speed, along with the weird road designs that I mentioned above.

[Badbob]

I don't look at my speedometer in turns so I don't know how fast I'm going. If I need to shift I shift up or down.

Skills are learned. You learn by studying the techniques and practice. Do this enough and it will become second nature.

Here's a general question about downshifting. When I'm pulling up to a red light, I generally downshift as my speed decreases. However, sometimes in traffic, I'll have to come to a quick stop in 4th or 5th when the car in front of me decides it was to make a turn at the last minute. In these cases, I've found that the GZ250 sometimes has issues downshifting all the way into first. I'll only get down to second or third and then I'll have to let out the clutch slightly, letting it grab and then clutch again before I can finish downshifting to 1st.

You can shift all the way to first by easing out on the clutch until it just starts to grab while applying a little pressure to the shifter.

You might want to reconsider how close you are following the car in front of you if you find yourself stopping short like this a lot. Cars can stop faster than you can. They just put both feet on the pedal and the computer does the rest. On a bike you have to actually apply you brakes and keep control of your bike yourself. Cars don't fall over if their wheels quit spinning.

I like to use the one second for every 10 miles per hour. This keeps me at a comfortable following distance and helps to prevent those quick stops.

[burbin1978]

Easy,
Yeah, maybe I do need more practice. I guess I was trying to relate to what another NEW driver "Littlethumper" and "bigwonton" were saying about forgetting what gear they were in and downshifting and what Orpheus said about turns. We have only been driving for a little while it seems. I think I probably do slow down a lot when going into a turn. I tried being in third gear coming out, but coming out of the turn it sounded like there was not enough RPMs and the engine hesitated on acceleration, kind of like what Orpheus described. I probably don't enter with as much RPMs as the more experienced rider. As I said, I'm trying to avoid sliding. Plus, I don't think there has been any traffic turning behind me. Not that I can recall. The TexDOT Motorcycle Operator's Manual, the one they give you before you take your test says:

"It is best to change gears before entering a turn. However, sometimes shifting while in the turn is necessary. If so, remember to do so smoothly. A sudden change in power to the rear wheel can cause a skid."

This is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I think that with more experience I'll get the hang of it. In the mean time, I'm sticking to going slow and coming out in second until I get more comfortable. Would rather learn slowly than try to emulate a more experienced rider and have a crash.

[Easy Rider]

This is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I think that with more experience I'll get the hang of it. In the mean time, I'm sticking to going slow and coming out in second until I get more comfortable. Would rather learn slowly than try to emulate a more experienced rider and have a crash.

Just went for a test ride and paid attention to what gear I was in for un-obstructed turns. Turns out that I DO use 2nd about half the time........usually when other vehicles are making the same turn.

So I STAND CORRECTED. :oops:

As you get more experience, you will probably be comfortable with 3rd gear for sweeping turns.
At this point though you are right; don't want to lug it and frantically try to shift down during the turn.

:tup:

[bigwonton]

You might want to reconsider how close you are following the car in front of you if you find yourself stopping short like this a lot. Cars can stop faster than you can. They just put both feet on the pedal and the computer does the rest. On a bike you have to actually apply you brakes and keep control of your bike yourself. Cars don't fall over if their wheels quit spinning.

I like to use the one second for every 10 miles per hour. This keeps me at a comfortable following distance and helps to prevent those quick stops.

Very true and point noted. However, you tell Mr. Hungry that screeching to a stop on the road in order to make the turn in for the McDonalds Value Meal drivethrough puts those behind him at risk. :)

[Badbob]

You might want to reconsider how close you are following the car in front of you if you find yourself stopping short like this a lot. Cars can stop faster than you can. They just put both feet on the pedal and the computer does the rest. On a bike you have to actually apply you brakes and keep control of your bike yourself. Cars don't fall over if their wheels quit spinning.

I like to use the one second for every 10 miles per hour. This keeps me at a comfortable following distance and helps to prevent those quick stops.

Very true and point noted. However, you tell Mr. Hungry that screeching to a stop on the road in order to make the turn in for the McDonalds Value Meal drivethrough puts those behind him at risk. :)

Yes it does. However, if you are far enough back it goes from a heart pounding panic stop to just being annoyed a Mr Hungry for being so stupid. Right or wrong, legal or illegal doesn't matter one bit when a bike tangles with a cage the bike always looses. My goal is to all ways ride far enough away from other vehicles so I never panic stop. IMHO if you are panic stopping your to close irregardless of how you got to be in that position.

There are some situations where you are not in control of this such as having a cage change lanes right in front of you and slam on the brakes. Been there done that.

[Orpheus]

There are some situations where you are not in control of this such as having a cage change lanes right in front of you and slam on the brakes. Been there done that.

You should move to the Phoenix area; drivers here are horrible about this. In order to avoid it, most drivers tailgate the car (or bike) in front of them so there's not enough room for a car to squeeze in. I try to ride with plenty of room in front of me and just keep an eye on the cars that might try to cut me off. Most of the roads around here are three lanes both ways, so if you're in the middle lane you have to watch everyone around you VERY closely and be prepared for it. There's also the times when the third (far right) lane ends and the road narrows to two lanes; cars will speed through the lane that ends in order to get in front of the traffic in the lane they're supposed to merge with and then slam on their brakes to avoid hitting the car in front of them.