Charging system issue

[marauder1313]

So I just got back from an 18,000km trip with this GZ, and something that I experienced back in Delaware and had to live with all the way back to vancouver was an issue with its charging.
With the headlight plugged in, im barely getting 12.6V at idle. With headlight unplugged, Ill get into the mid 13's

I actually ended up riding back to the west coast with my headlight unplugged because I would encounter a dead battery eventually.

I got a brand new battery at an autozone in philly too

Where should I start looking to figure this shit out?

Thanks

[marauder1313]

after looking through the manual (and learning some new stuff), it seems the stator is bad. The resistance is slightly over spec, but im reading almost no AC voltage when the bike is running through one winding, and below spec on the other 2 windings.
Are stators pretty common things that fail on these bikes?
Is it pretty painless to change out?

Thanks guys

[marauder1313]

is there anyone to be 100% sure its the stator?
Seems like an expensive part to replace

[spldart]

So. What no load ac voltage are you getting between any of the three windings at rev?
So.. Not same between one of three wires and the other two?

I have found you can often determine if the rectifier/regulator assy is bad by setting your dmm
to diode check and then using it from out ground and out B+ to all three input wires while
out of circuit. Both polarities.
All three input lines should measure exactly the same referenced by out ground and out b+
as measured by dmm out of circuit.

You have ohm'd out all three stator wires in reference to the other two out of circuit?
Does one of three stand out from the other two?
Or does every combination of the three read pretty much the same on your dmm?

And if you are worried about expensive parts consider salvage.
You can cheaply find your no charge problem by buying the stator and rectifier/regulator and swapping
one by one.
Once you find the problem you can either run the used part to failure, who knows it might last the rest
of your bikes life, or you can then order a brand new part cuz now your sure.

Lastly check your wiring. I had to hardwire the stator to regulator wiring cuz it failed on a yamaha vision 550.

[marauder1313]

The resistance of all three windings are similar, but over spec (if you go according to the manual).
On 2 of the windings, Im getting about 45-50 V at rev
On the other one, im getting virtually nothing.

Theres not a whole lot of options as far as motorcycle salvage around here, and id be wary buying a used one from ebay.

[spldart]

I'm sorry but two of your tests are conflicting my diagnosis.
If you get 45 to 50 volts between stator out A and B but you get no volts on stator out
C to A or C to B then C is an open winding.
I'm arbitrarily assigning designations as they will all be one color and providing ac current flow.
Anywho. Under these circumstances there should be an obvious difference in ohmmeter
readings when measuring C to A or B.
A to B should be under 2 ohms since we get 45 to 50 volts.
Anywho...........
I'm leaning towards stator at this point.

Can you get a dmm with diode check on the rect/reg and see if you can find inconsistencies?
If you have a shorted diode in the rect/reg assy then it will make short work of any new or used stator.

[alantf]

Am I reading this right? Headlight unplugged and charging ok? Could there be a dead short in the headlight itself? We've known problems to show up in the headlight bucket before. Could be worth a simple check with your meter before you start ripping the charging system apart, or am I missing something? :hmm:

[Water Warrior 2]

Sounds like Alantf is on to something. There could be some insulation worn through due to vibration. The act of disconnecting the bulb might be curing the direct short of any number of wires in the headlight bucket. Look for worn wires, cracked insulation or and extra connector that should be covered with tape to prevent a possible direct short. Could be a previous owner cut off a connector and didn't tape it for safety. Keep things simple before tearing into a stator and investing $.

[celesboy1]

charging issue is very commonly problem in IDN too....coz basically my GS250X are same type with GZ250 except the fuel tank , frame , final ratio and another body part
but excactly same engine , same ignition , and of course....charging

but....as almost all trouble in our world....theres always solutions....

just wait guys....i'll post my charging mod tommorow ok....
i can't write in english fluently but with some pics....i hope you'll understand how it works

its late night here so i need to get sleep now....

just hit link below before i post my pics....its help alot to find charging fault...believe me
http://www.thegsresources.com/statorpapers.php

PS : basically the link above does works for ANY bikes with 3 phase stator

[spldart]

It is normal if you have lost one or two coils producing power either at the stator or the rectifier/regulator that if you further unload it, say by unplugging the headlight, that the voltage will come up some.
If there was a wire shorting in the headlight bucket it should have blown the main fuse shouldn't it have?
The crippled charge circuitry will make as much electricity as it can and fall short. If you remove some load then the voltage will climb.

[marauder1313]

So i went to buy a new meter because I had an older one and wanted to make sure I could trust my readings. As of right now, i have continuity in all 3 phases (and it IS within spec). And when i take a no-load AC voltage reading with bike running, i get close to 60V when revving (spec calls for 60V at 5,000rpm).
And thats from all 3 phases, so at this point, i dont know if i can fault the stator.
I did open it up this morning, and i found ONE winding (out of the 20?) to be a BIT black. Not sure how relevant that is.
As of right now, with the headlight PLUGGED IN, i am getting a voltage of 12.5 (approx) with the bike on and high rpms.
With the headlight UNPLUGGED, that voltage will hover around 13.3-13.7
Not sure how much voltage these bikes will put out from the factory, but id rather have 13 going into my bike than a measly 12.4.

Where do I go from here?

[marauder1313]

There is no visible corrosion inside the headlight box. I mean, if the headlight circuit was shorting somewhere, the bulb itself either wouldnt light up or would be dim im assuming. The only thing I can think of, is that the stator is "weak".
Is that possible? If so, im out of options. Because it doesnt necessarily test bad.

The r/r also tested good on the diode test.

[celesboy1]

60vac is perfect....but r u sure u was checked all 3 stator wires ?

I doubt it coz u mention one of the pole winding in stator was black....so in my opinion....2 of 3 phase just perfect (60vac)....but 1 of 3 will be lower than 60vac coz its burnt

And for correction....it has 18 poles winding....not 20

Just stay put for few hours till i post my mod...

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[marauder1313]

They all put out about 60vac (dont know at what rpm though since i have no tach).
The one winding had a bit of black yea, but still, im getting around 60vac on all three phases. Ill recheck it tomorrow i guess, but yea, im at a loss right now.

[spldart]

Heh.
Now i'm wondering if a 40 watt bulb with a couple clipleads could be used to load test each
of the three coils in the stator.
Just a brief test to see if it lights dimly with a quick rev.
Imma have to try it if I ever dig into my charge wiring as much as you have.

[celesboy1]

So I just got back from an 18,000km trip with this GZ, and something that I experienced back in Delaware and had to live with all the way back to vancouver was an issue with its charging.
With the headlight plugged in, im barely getting 12.6V at idle. With headlight unplugged, Ill get into the mid 13's

I actually ended up riding back to the west coast with my headlight unplugged because I would encounter a dead battery eventually.

I got a brand new battery at an autozone in philly too

Where should I start looking to figure this shit out?

Thanks

ok....now we'll start the main course

i had some pics that shoot few minutes ago....

THIS kind of failure was commonly happend in certain type of suzuki....
wait...i'm forget to mention it...the MOST commonly issue is charging wire....happends alot in here in IDN too....

so...let begin with pics coz i'm not too good to explain in english

first thing to do....is made your DIY wires...any wires can do (i'm used household wires that cost me USD 1 each meter in electricity shop)

https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11214037_10153624376367122_7370948542804034881_n.j pg?oh=7e2d4b7fd1528d513d5c3c8549ef43e2&oe=5611B377

as u can see....in left there are 3 yellow stock wires from stator
3 blue wires in right...it was my DIY wires....
(so basically this is called bypass method....coz stator wires goes directly to R/R without using stock wire set anymore)



and this is where the blue wires go (they are go to RR)....very simple

https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11700910_10153624376022122_7022133403199927143_n.j pg?oh=e15a547f2ff0a2bb5ca324faf8160ebe&oe=56238719


you can see black and red wires in left side of the blue wires
its lead DIRECTLY to battery poles without anymore extension

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11760152_10153624376347122_951920842307241742_n.jp g?oh=62b2057df0c002ee8a777f2e7571381d&oe=561ED240&__gda__=1448514858_12f9eeb67b2e843a41e3b11b2c7d9ff d



so....what purpose of those 2 plastic socket in my hand after we did bypass mod ?
nothing....just let them hanging there and do nothing....(those 2 black and white socket doesn't have any function from now on)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11701092_10153624377932122_8111205217123177290_n.j pg?oh=5c72766c58adfba062e9a0c11cbf6e9e&oe=561542D5&__gda__=1448507050_9c05fe525a3877a75c64f7feea94918 6

[celesboy1]

wait....we dont have RR type like yours joseph....we need you to explain how to do it on stock RR (stock RR is shindengen SH572)

sorry....i'm forget if i was replaced my RR few years ago to something much better than the stock (pics in my late post above is RR came from yamaha R6 2012)

but then...i was recall that i have something for u to make understand it easier



u can made extension wires from here with spade connector

--black plastic socket goes directly to 3 wires from stator(blue extension wires in my bike)

--white plastic socket goes directly to battery poles (MAKE SURE YOU PUT IN RIGHT POLES COZ PLUS POLE AND MINUS POLE CANNOT BE EXCHANGED!!!) (red and black wires in my bike)

sorry...this pic have indonesian language coz orginally i made it for facebook group GS250 tutorial
https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11745951_10153624404727122_2737588743394104088_n.j pg?oh=237c24b83fba5d55eb9d960959fb5f6b&oe=5655F6E8

[celesboy1]

With the headlight UNPLUGGED, that voltage will hover around 13.3-13.7
Not sure how much voltage these bikes will put out from the factory, but id rather have 13 going into my bike than a measly 12.4.



IMHO...for all bikes with 12V battery....it should be like this


all lights off....engine rpm idle (about 1200rpm)
https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11745861_10153626085782122_4707961105657384115_n.j pg?oh=a196961b7ba5362fe900a885a992405d&oe=5653D8A9


lights ON....engine rpm idle too
https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11701211_10153626084657122_4672403903571906476_n.j pg?oh=bcceb7c673db0551200c0b9cec8b212e&oe=56543771