leaking carb, still wont start

[iMoon1221]

one day my bike just stopped working. Rode it an hour prior and suddenly wouldnt start. Ive tried everything i can think of. clean the crap out of the carb. (very carefully, counting turns) i put the float in a cup of water with ice on top to hold it down. no bubbles, no water got in. i took the gas tank off because it was in rough shape on the inside. i used redkote but for some reason it started peeling, like a big red sack, not pieces. I connected the gas line from my gn125 to the carb (it has good gas in it for sure). i lost my key so i had to hotwire, i had the battery plugged up to my car, lights were on. i took the cables off the batter and used them on the starter, my starter button doesnt work but the starter does. it makes a constant puff puff puff out of the muffler but nothing more. at first the carb was leaking gas so i tightened the float bowl. it stopped leaking. still didnt work. then i realized that the kick stand was down. so i went back to try with it up but it was pouring gas from the carb again. I spent all day on this. i have run out of ideas.
any suggestions?

[alantf]

Have you checked that the engine hasn't flooded and soaked the spark plug?

[iMoon1221]

i checked the spark plug and it was pretty dirty. I cleaned it and checked inside, i didnt see anything in there. I bought a new plug hoping it would work. at the parts store the guy told me it could be my coil. so i got the new plug ( and some gasket stuff to fix the leak). I tried holding the plug next to the engine for spark. but nothing. so im guessing ( and kinda hoping) its my coil. only like 20 bucks online.
i just triple checked everything, tried starting it like the kickstand was up, clutch in, gas on , choke on. nothing. so, looks like im ordering a coil

[alantf]

So long as it's in neutral, no need to lift the kickstand. It's only when you put it in gear that it cuts the engine. It's a safety device to stop you riding off with the stand down.

[jonathan180iq]

Ensure proper flow through the carb by disconnecting the line that feed into the float and see if it will pour gas when on PRI and also when you set it to RUN and turn the engine over.

(It will only pour out when the engine is turning over and creating vacuum)

If those both work, then move from the carb and check for spark. If you aren't getting any spark, like you mentioned, then there is your answer... You can test the coil with a volt meter. It's either working or it's not.

[iMoon1221]

I ordered a new coil and tried it today (with a new spark plug) and still no spark :(

[iMoon1221]

It looks like it's dripping out of the place the hose connects to the float but a pretty slow, steady drip

[jonathan180iq]

Use a volt meter and see if you're getting juice into the coil pack. Do the same with the flow out of the coil pack. I think there's just a safety relay somewhere that's gone bad.

Replace the hose and clamp tighter.

It's possible that your float is stuck and it's not turning off fuel flow.

[alantf]

looks like you may have two problems - fuel and electrical. I'll leave the fuel problem for others more knowledgeable than myself, but if the starter works but not the button, check the interlocks i.e. starter button, clutch switch, sidestand switch. These often go bad, and a good squirt of contact cleaner usually does the trick. Also check the starter relay, which is under the seat, behind the battery. If you can get the starter motor to turn over with the start button, then you can concentrate on the fuel problem.

[iMoon1221]

Thanks guys! I think the gas leak might be a gasket issue, on of the screws holding my float bowl was stripped so I have vice grips holding that corner (she needs alot of love) I got some stuff that's supposed to create a new gasket, as for electrical Ive been looking around and I'm hoping the safety switches are the problem, us there any easy way to bypass them? And I guess it's time to invest in a volt meter, as for the contact Cleaner, would wd40 or carb Cleaned work?

[iMoon1221]

So apparently the p.o. Cut the side stand switch, could this be a problem?

[Water Warrior 2]

Yes, you could ride off with the side stand down and kill yourself.

[alantf]

Don't use WD40 or carb cleaner. Invest in a spray can of contact cleaner, It's not expensive. The one that I use smells like the carbon tetrachloride that we used to use, years ago, before all these modern chemicals, and it's specially designed to do the job, and not leave residues to foul up the contacts. BTW, I forgot to mention the red switch, that also needs spraying.

[jonathan180iq]

He probably cut that switch because he was having problem with it too...

The resolution for a side stand switch problem is to simple clean the contact on the inside - cutting it is drastic. I don't know how it's wired off hand, but I'm assuming he simply shorted the other two wires into each other to trick the bike into thinking that the contact was always made, right?

You need to find the other side of that "repair" and see what he was doing to make the bike start. If that has come loose, for example, then you would get no spark, IIRC.

[iMoon1221]

Idk what I'd do without this forum,
I'm definitely going to get some contact cleaner. And I guess check out that safety side stand short.
When you say the red button needs to be cleaned do you mean the killswitch/ starter?

[iMoon1221]

I'm outta town for work so I'm going to check everything tonight when I get back, it's driving me crazy getting all these ideas and not being able to try them yet!

[jonathan180iq]

Yeah, the kill switches are known for developing some crud and not allowing them to function properly, which would leave you with no spark also.

If you're feeling really spry, just take the cover off and clean the contacts with your spray plus a wire brush.

Alan if right, BTW. the actual contact cleaner is superior to anything else. While WD-40 will work, it's going to attract grime, whereas the contact specific stuff will not.

[iMoon1221]

Just picked up some contact cleaner today, I'm getting real anxious to use It.
Regarding the killswitch, I actually had some weird issues with it in the past. Sometimes my starter button wouldn't work so id flip the kill switch a few times and it worked.
IIv already taken the switch apart so I think I will again and give it a real good Cleaning

[jonathan180iq]

That previous problem leads me to believe that's also part of your current problem. :)

[iMoon1221]

I just got home and tried jumping it real quick, no luck :( but I have tomorrow off so I guess i know what I'm doing. Should be an awesome day.. As long as I(we[you brilliant teachers]) figure it out

[jonathan180iq]

Well update us man. What's going on so far today?

[iMoon1221]

Ok, I shorted out all the safety switches and used contact cleaner and the starter button is working again. So that's some good news. Bad news is its still not starting.
So here's alllll the details
LLost the key so I'm hot wiring it through the green connecter in the headlight
I just put an open air filter on and hoped it would work because I already rejected my carb for a new muffler (when I say I, I mean a shop did the new jet)
II guess that might have been stupid but figured it would at least start and just run weird.
I just changed the oil but it might have a hint of gas smell

A second ago the carb was pouring gas out of the air intake, I took the top of and checked it out then put it back on, stopped leaking, then there was a weird vacuum thing. I turned the tank on and it wasnt filling the line up, I unplugged it and it came rushing out.
I'm stuck :(

[iMoon1221]

Just pulled the spark plug and checked for spark, nothing

[iMoon1221]

I'm getting no response from the place the white cord is supposed to connect to

[iMoon1221]

Ok, between o/y and white there's .38 resistance
I'm not getting any kind of response from o/w

[jonathan180iq]

.....Ok hold on...

It's been a while since I had the bike, so you're going to have to tell me what that connector goes to.

While you're doing all of this, do you have the service manuals pulled up on the computer or with you?

I like to do things step by step so as not to overlook something simple. It's very easy to keep diving into a problem and just get so far gone that have simply missed what actually needed to be fixed.

You have a leaking carb, consistently, that you have not been able to resolve. Before we move onto spark - let's get that taken care of.

When you say that you unplugged something and it just started pouring out, was the petcock set to PRI or RUN? This pouring scneario should not happen unless the bike is set to PRI.

I'm going to PM you with my phone number. I can't talk but you can text all you need to.

[alantf]

If you're testing the igniter (as shown in your picture) then it's a diode test, not a resistance test, that you need to do. It's explained in the workshop manual.

[jonathan180iq]

Alan, I'm walking him through most of the carb stuff but you'll have to cover the electrical.

He has this as his volt tool:

http://www.byramlabs.com/images/hi-res/SPE-dm-210a.gif

And Moon, this is the pic that wouldn't open on your phone.

http://cdn.ecolocityled.com/images/trouble/volt-meter-600.jpg

[iMoon1221]

Awesome! I'm buying a battery right now!

[iMoon1221]

I got a new battery and my lights come in but now my starter button wouldn't t work again

[5th_bike]

I thought you have to charge a new battery first, before using it.
A couple hours at 1A or 2A should do.

[iMoon1221]

I looked up some stuff and I'm scared it might be my igniter assy?

[iMoon1221]

Cdi box*

[iMoon1221]

I'm getting neg volts from the r/r, I tested it on the tail light and it was positive (around . 5 I think) so could this be it!?

[iMoon1221]

And the head light dimmed out

[alantf]

I thought you have to charge a new battery first, before using it.
A couple hours at 1A or 2A should do.

0.75A overnight is much better for a new battery.

[alantf]

This is the igniter test. You'll need a meter with diode test facilities.

img031.jpg (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=311&stc=1&d=1408178913)

[iMoon1221]

Is there any way to do it without a diode tester? It's not very easy getting to the store and back without transportation lol
Iv been messing around with things,
When I connect the coil to the connector with a third wire (canceling out the cdi box) I read 12 v going through the spark plug wire. Connected to the cdi, nothin, but I do get different readings when I hook the meter to it,
I checked the reg with the ohm meter, on side was around 1.3 and the other around . 3

My 20 fuse has blown twice in the last two days,
Starter button still not working

TThere's so many variables!

[5th_bike]

Lost the key so I'm hot wiring it through the green connecter in the headlight
That could be it, I remember reading that the GZ250 has some kind of safety in the key contact such that if you hot wire it, it still won't work. To prevent theft.

So, please first try and get everything like it should be, and work from there.

[iMoon1221]

It stopped working before I lost the key so it has to be something else, I hooked up a switch to replace the key

[jonathan180iq]

There are just so many bypasses of the factory cut-out switches that I fear we are only digging ourselves deeper into a hole... The only way to properly troubleshoot all of this stuff is to get it back to factory and then work from there. I'm not electrical genius, but all of these circuits are interconnected and splicing here and bypassing there is just burying the rabbit hole even deeper under the tree.

[iMoon1221]

Does this look OK?

[Water Warrior 2]

That could be it, I remember reading that the GZ250 has some kind of safety in the key contact such that if you hot wire it, it still won't work. To prevent theft.

So, please first try and get everything like it should be, and work from there.



Yes, this was confirmed by a member quite some time ago. There is an electronic gizmo in the ignition switch to prevent hot wiring the bike and stealing it.

[Water Warrior 2]

Gotta agree with Jonathan. Get the bike back to factory wiring with nothing bypassed. Then you can do some actual trouble shooting for real results that mean something. You can toss a lot of time and money at the bike but you likely won't get it fixed while creating more problems.

[gz4me +]

The picture is of the stator. I do not see any burnt marks on it. The pick-up coil is at the top of the picture under the hold down clip. You will need a multi circuit tester and peak volt adaptor to check pick up coil peak voltage. You can not tell by looks that the stator is working correctly. It is easy to test with meter. The stator is for charging the battery and would not prevent the bike from starting. I agree with Water Warrior and Johathon on the wiring. Work on correcting those problems first.

[raul10141964]

put the bike back together an then folow this steps in order and only one at a time

1 starter, make sure the starter work reliable if not fix it
2 Ignition make sure the spark s working in not fix it
3 fuel check for correct fuel flow from the tank to the carb and the carb it self
4 compresion

[iMoon1221]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the feedback. I know your right, I was just really hoping I could do it without having a new key made. But I guess that's the first step. Locksmith says it'll be a hundred bucks to make a new one. Any cheaper ideas?

[alantf]

That's one reason there's a space in the owner's manual to write in the key number. When I bought the bike (new) the two keys came with a tag, showing the number. If I lose my keys, I can give the number to the bike shop, who can order a new key for me.

img032.jpg (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=313&stc=1&d=1408651686)

[gz4me +]

Have you watched Lost Key, by Studysession, page 3, #28, on this forum? Good video on subject. He never said how much it cost him, but has alot of good information.

[iMoon1221]

I am sad to say that I traded my precious bobber yesterday morning. I couldn't figure out the issue, and have been wanting a bigger bike to keep up with my dad. Thanks for all your help!

[jonathan180iq]

Well, at least tell us what you got in it's place.

[chromedome195]

yes..please tell us.

[iMoon1221]

Sorry! I've been out of town for work. I got a Honda Magna vf700c. I love the extra power! its not in perfect condition but its not bad at all. I feel so free being able to cruise on the interstate so easily.

[Water Warrior 2]

The Magna has a good following and is the usual Honda quality bike.

[jonathan180iq]

Very true. As with all bikes, keep some carb cleaner on hand and run it through every couple of tanks. :)

Congrats

[chromedome195]

Honda Magna vf700c----What year?

[Water Warrior 2]

80 something probably. That is when Japan had to shrink their 750 models to make H-D more competative.

[chromedome195]

80 something probably. That is when Japan had to shrink their 750 models to make H-D more competative.

Yeah, I was thinking early '80s......

WW would you expand on the "Japan had to shrink their 750 models to make H-D more competitive" ?

I'd love to know more about that.

thanks

[Water Warrior 2]

Yeah, I was thinking early '80s......

WW would you expand on the "Japan had to shrink their 750 models to make H-D more competitive" ?

I'd love to know more about that.

thanks
IIRC that was when H-D was making lower quality bikes and not really seeking to improve their product. Japan was making very competative bikes for less and had more reliability. H-D was in a failing position and had the U.S. government mandate smaller engines and likely higher tariffs to compensate. Heaven forbid a National Icon fail in the U.S. H-D did pull up their socks and get with a better program in time. The Japanese 700's were amazing bikes. Just a slightly smaller 700 engine in the in the normal 750 bike. H-D found out that the Japanese could build a better "Harley" that didn't leak oil or cost a fortune to buy. Competition did wonders for the market place. Japan kept H-D in the game by forcing them to build better bikes. And the winner is the rider. None of the manufacturers build a dumb bike anymore. They need profits and good bikes generate money.

Would I buy a H-D now?? NO!! I would buy Japanese, they have always served me well and have been cost effective toys in the long run. Maintenance has always been a high cost with some bikes and the Japanese do well for the rider. Now if they would just make better seats for our butts. :tdown:

[chromedome195]

Thanks WW2.