Neutral light not working

[BaronVonMortimer]

Hi everyone. I have a 2005 GZ250 that won't start. I've been working on it for a while now. When I turn the key, nothing. The neutral light doesn't come on. The battery is ok. The starter relay checks out.

(The only service manual I have is the one I downloaded from here. It's helpful, but it's impossible to see any details in the pics).

So I've checked what I thought was the neutral switch coupler for continuity and got none. So it seems to be a bad neutral switch.
I also checked the side stand switch and got a reading of .58volts in the ON/upright position. And a reading of 1.0volts in the OFF/down position. This OFF reading is not what the manual calls for. It says it should be 1.4 to 1.5 volts.
I just sprayed everything with Deoxit. Thought that would do the trick, but it didn'nt.

Any ideas? How can I confirm that it's the neutral switch? Could it be something else?

Going off the rails on a crazy train!

[tnastvogel]

Did you check the ignition switch? Make sure all of the connections coming off of that are solid and greased.

[5th_bike]

FWIW It doesn't have to be in neutral to start, it will start with the side stand up and the clutch lever pulled in. So don't worry about it being the neutral switch that keeps you from starting it.

It could simply be that the neutral bulb has burned out.

Oh and I assume you checked all fuses.

Do the other lights come on when you turn the key?
You checked the 'start' switch and the 'kill' switch?

I would go by the wiring diagram in the service manual and see why the starter relay doesn't get power.

[BaronVonMortimer]

Thanks for the replys.
Yes I checked the fuses. They look fine but I've replaced them anyway.
No the rest of the lights don't turn on either. Except when the key is turned to park, the tail light goes on. But nothin else.
All of the connections SEEM okay, but I'm not sure if I'm missing something. Like I said, the only pictures I have are very grainy and blurry. Just a big white arrow pointing at a black blob.
So, all of the black blobs SEEM okay.

When I think back to when this started, I remember that I was distracted when I was installing my battery and I think I connected the negative lead first. Might I have fried something? Isn't that what the fuses are for?
I don't have a proper garage, so this is getting reeeally frustrating...

[blaine]

Thanks for the replys.
Yes I checked the fuses. They look fine but I've replaced them anyway.
No the rest of the lights don't turn on either. Except when the key is turned to park, the tail light goes on. But nothin else.
All of the connections SEEM okay, but I'm not sure if I'm missing something. Like I said, the only pictures I have are very grainy and blurry. Just a big white arrow pointing at a black blob.
So, all of the black blobs SEEM okay.

When I think back to when this started, I remember that I was distracted when I was installing my battery and I think I connected the negative lead first. Might I have fried something? Isn't that what the fuses are for?
I don't have a proper garage, so this is getting reeeally frustrating...
Connecting the negative first wouldn't matter as long as the leads didn't get reversed. (- to +) ;) :)

[gz4me +]

When you say that when you turn key nothing, does that mean the engine does not turn over? I know you said you replaced all the fuses, does that include to 20amp in the starter relay? Since lights are not coming on, sure sounds like the 20amp fuse.

[BaronVonMortimer]

Connecting the negative first wouldn't matter as long as the leads didn't get reversed. (- to +) ;) :)

Good to know. Thanks Blaine.

[BaronVonMortimer]

Yes. When I turn the key, no lights come on and there is nothing. The engine has no chance of turning over.
There are 2 fuses at the starter relay that I've replaced (20a). And I've done the test on the relay and it checks out. It seemed like that would be it to me too.
If it were the starter itself, then wouldn't the neutral light come on and I hear a click or something?

[raul10141964]

check the other fuses under the tools tray under the sit

[alantf]

seems like it could possibly be two problems. A blown neutral bulb, and a bad contact on one of the safety switches. Check that the bulb's ok, and blast some contact cleaner into the red cut off switch, clutch switch, and side stand switch. Both these faults are fairly common with the GZ.

[raul10141964]

If the head light stay off will bi fuse ore ignition switch

[BaronVonMortimer]

Thanks! They all checked out okay.

[BaronVonMortimer]

seems like it could possibly be two problems. A blown neutral bulb, and a bad contact on one of the safety switches. Check that the bulb's ok, and blast some contact cleaner into the red cut off switch, clutch switch, and side stand switch. Both these faults are fairly common with the GZ.

Well if the neutral bulb wasn't bad then, it certainly is now. Just crushed it trying to get it out of that little rubber boot!

[Water Warrior 2]

Well if the neutral bulb wasn't bad then, it certainly is now. Just crushed it trying to get it out of that little rubber boot!
:doh: At least you no longer need to check out that bulb.

[BaronVonMortimer]

Well I replaced the bulb. Then sprayed every single electrical contact again.
I've been turning the key on and off the whole time. Suddenly, one time, the neutral light came on! Being the major dumbass that I am, I tried to start it. Heard a 'click' but then, back to dead.
Forgot that I re-mounted the fuel tank but didn't re-connect the fuel lines.
Doh!
Got me thinking about a random occurance. Not a week before this all started, I noticed that the screws that hold the seat lock to the plastic shell were missing. So it's loose. But after looking at it for a while, I concluded that it's only connecting the lock to a cable that opens the latch.
Could this have anything to do with the electrical problem? Meaning, does the seat lock need to be grounded or functioning properly for the electronics to work?
I realise this has got to be the dumbest question ever posted. Fortunatly for me, I'm a major dumbass, so I'm ok with it.

What say you?

[raul10141964]

remove the head light an check the connection inside

[gz4me +]

No the seat lock does not need grounded. Speaking of ground, Did you check the ground from the battery to the frame? It is kind of hard to get to, but most could use a good cleaning and tighten up from time to time. Keep working those switches back and forth. You might have yours running before mine.

[BaronVonMortimer]

Ground looks fine.
I think it's either the starter, or the ignition assembly.
Not sure how to narrow it down.

Thanks for all the help!

[BaronVonMortimer]

remove the head light an check the connection inside

Checked it all. Again.
Thanks

[tnastvogel]

The normal procedure for testing the starter is to bypass that relay by jumping the terminals and seeing if it turns. Since you're having electrical issues to begin with, you could just jump the starter directly with your battery. First disconnect your battery. With jumper cables, hook power up to the terminal on the top of the starter and then touch the ground to the side of it. If it turns, it's fine. If not, there may be a bad brush in there. I read in an earlier post that you heard a click when you tried to start it, which usually indicates a bad starter.

To test the ignition switch, first disconnect the pigtail and put a bit of dielectric grease on each of the connections, plug it back in and see if it works. If it doesn't, back probe each wire in each key position and make sure it's putting out the proper voltage. Start with the power supply to make sure power is going to the switch. I read in an earlier post that the parking light works, so you're probably getting power to the switch.

By the way, it is in neutral, right?

[BaronVonMortimer]

The normal procedure for testing the starter is to bypass that relay by jumping the terminals and seeing if it turns. Since you're having electrical issues to begin with, you could just jump the starter directly with your battery. First disconnect your battery. With jumper cables, hook power up to the terminal on the top of the starter and then touch the ground to the side of it. If it turns, it's fine. If not, there may be a bad brush in there. I read in an earlier post that you heard a click when you tried to start it, which usually indicates a bad starter.

To test the ignition switch, first disconnect the pigtail and put a bit of dielectric grease on each of the connections, plug it back in and see if it works. If it doesn't, back probe each wire in each key position and make sure it's putting out the proper voltage. Start with the power supply to make sure power is going to the switch. I read in an earlier post that the parking light works, so you're probably getting power to the switch.

By the way, it is in neutral, right?


You sir, are a saint. Thank you for the help. :-)
(Btw, yes, it is in neutral).
I just did the starter bypass and I got nothing.
If the starter is bad, would that keep the neutral light from coming on?
Should I just replace the starter?
I don't have much $ so I am trying to be sure about it before I go and spend $$$ on parts.
Speaking of which, can you recommend a good website to buy a starter from?
I am so greatful for your shared wisdom.

[BaronVonMortimer]

Found an OEM one for $340 and an aftermarket one for $52!
What gives?
That price is sooo tempting...

[Rcarlisle]

If you are getting no lights, then I'm not sure that would indicate a bad starter. I would check other things first. That one random click, says to me that something is amiss in the ignition (key) circuit. THe power is not going anywhere when you turn the key.

How much volatage at rest at battery?

Headlight not coming on either? HAve you tried a new battery or a jump start? for more voltage?

High beam indicator working?

If none of these lights are coming on, I'm thinking ignition switch. Just my thought.

Keep checking before buying new starter.

Good luck
Randy

[BaronVonMortimer]

Thanks Randy.
I have a hunch you're right.
My battery voltage is 12.8 V
No, the highbeams don't come on.
Only the taillight when key is in park position.
I believe I need a special tool to remove the ignition assembly.

What about my starter not clicking when I bypassed the relay?
Hope it isn't both

[raul10141964]

I think this will help, is from the service manual

[BaronVonMortimer]

I think this will help, is from the service manual

Thanks Raul.
Just printed out the whole electronics section.
\m/

[BaronVonMortimer]

Now the battery is suspect!
It's not holding its voltage. I had it on a tender overnight. It read 12.5v but now it's reading 10.5v. I re-charged it, then measured it shortly afterward. 10.5!
Question is, could it just be the battery? Would the starter test fail if the voltage wasn't at 12? Would my neutral light stop coming on too?
All of this from the battery?
I'm sure it's possible. But I dunno.
???

BTW, this is awesome! The help you guys are giving me.
Awesome forum! Thanks!

[BaronVonMortimer]

FYI-Went to my local auto shop. The ignition assembly without a new gas cap and seat lock is $167.

[raul10141964]

If the battery drop to 10.5V is bad an can create all your problems.
you can test with a jump from a not running car

[Fawlty]

Yes. It sounds like the battery is your problem. You could have it load tested to make sure. If you are going to try a jump start from another vehicle, make sure that the engine of the donor vehicle is switched OFF, otherwise you risk causing damage to the bikes electrical system.

[BaronVonMortimer]

If the battery drop to 10.5V is bad an can create all your problems.
you can test with a jump from a not running car

Thank you. This is good to know.

[BaronVonMortimer]

Yes. It sounds like the battery is your problem. You could have it load tested to make sure. If you are going to try a jump start from another vehicle, make sure that the engine of the donor vehicle is switched OFF, otherwise you risk causing damage to the bikes electrical system.

Thank you! This is valuable information. I was wondering if it was ok to jump start from a car.

[BaronVonMortimer]

Jumped it from my truck and it started right up!
Damn! I tested the battery but only after tending it overnight and then going forward under the assumption that it was ok.
Yes, that's right. I said assumption.
Go ahead and say it...
Never fails.

I've learned alot and I am very greatful for all of the input!
Thanks!

[gz4me +]

Wow!!! Great news. Glad to hear it was only the battery. Look on the bright side. Think of all the things you learned about your bike. What parts are in good shape and perhaps things to keep maintained so you do not break down. Made my day that you are up and running.

[BaronVonMortimer]

Yep I was thinking the same thing.
Good to get in there and troubleshoot.
And I've learned not to take my battery for granted.
Thanks!

[tnastvogel]

Hey that's great, man.

[Wvsuzuki250]

Did you ever get this problem solved...I think it is a bad contact in your killswitch. My bike started doing the same thing today and as Iwiggled the killswitch the lights came on...the bike is running awful too.