Yet another electrical problem....help

[osborne]

I have a 2000 GZ and when I got it a charger hooked to the dead, old battery would get me lights......Neutral, headlight, directional, etc. Changed out the battery and the new one tests at 13.3 V. Changed out a bad solenoid as well and now nothing....no lights at all, no starter engagement either. Checked and rechecked the main fuse....Its good. Same for the fuses in the fuse box....all good. Hooking the charger directly to the starter will spin it. I even put the old, bad solenoid back in and no lights. This has all the markings of a blown main fuse yet its definitely good.


I could really use some help here. This has me stumped. Thanks in advance.

[alantf]

See my reply to boisegary. Looks like it could be the same problem (solenoid connected the wrong way round)

[osborne]

OK.......another total DUH! moment for the books. The primary leads on the solenoid were indeed reversed. Switched em around and bingo bango.....lights, horn ect.

Still no power to the starter though. Question.....the kickstand safety lockout leads run up to a green clip/harness just below and in front of the seat, left side.....correct? I ask because the previous owner has the two wires coming out of the green clip cut and twisted together. I assume to disable THAT safety lockout.
Going to try checking the start button next I think for power unless someone here has a more likely culprit for the problem.

[Water Warrior 2]

Are you pulling in the clutch while trying to start the bike? It has a safety switch too.

[osborne]

Yes, and close inspection of the clutch safety switch shows it to be contacting the clutch lever. Mechanically, it appears to be working correctly.

[alantf]

it appears to be working correctly.

And it still may not be. :hmm: You need to check with a voltmeter. Although - I'd still give it a blast with an aerosol of contact cleaner. The clutch switch is notorious for sticking. When mine wouldn't start, I didn't bother testing, just blasted the red switch, clutch switch, and sidestand switch, with contact cleaner, and "het presto" bike started straight up. :tup:

[osborne]

OK......you gents are Good. Opened and went through te clutch switch .....hose it out with contact cleaner. Nothing. Opened up the throttle side swtch housing and hosed that out too......Bingo Bango.....power to the starter! Sprayed it again and worked it a while. Catches every time now. Thank you gentlemen!

Now for the carb.......:)))

[alantf]

No problem. That's what we're here for. :ride: :tup:

[osborne]

Thanks again for the previous help. The carb turned out to be clean as a whistle. Opened it up and sprayed it out an the bike fired right up. Now I have a different bug. The ignition fuse blows after a few minutes running. 10 amp, red fuse......#3 in the electrical schematic. Change it out and the bike fires up. Burned through 3 of them now. The kickstand cut out has been bypassed by the previous owner who cut and twisted the wires together. Could the diode, now missing from the circut be causing the fuse to cook off? If so, is there a workaround other than replacing the kickstand switch which is missing from the bike?

As an afterthought I should mention that during my bservations the neutral light has been on and off intermittently.

[alantf]

This seems to point to someting happening in the side stand relay set up. Check that the wires are solidly connected together, then make sure that they're well insulated, annd dry, and not touching the frame (shorting out). If you don't find anything, let us know, and I'll go over the circuit diagram and see if I can come up with anything else. :tup:

[osborne]

The wires are cut and twisted together about two inches below the clip together junction near the seat. The wire ends seems to be pretty well twisted together and I have a screw on connector cap over them. We can rule out the twisted ends contacting anything and causing the short. All the lights work correctly except the intermittent neutral light. Funny thing .....the bike will start with the neutral light on or off.

[alantf]

Just been over the wiring diagram. If the P.O. just shorted out the side stand switch, the power still goes to the side stand relay. In effect, all he's done is put the relay directly to earth, rather than the side stand switch closing and putting the relay to earth (i.e. completing the relay circuit to earth) In the diagram, to the left of the relay, you'll see a pair of diodes paired to a central point. One diode lets current flow from the relay to the neutral indicator light switch, and the other one lets current flow from the neutral light to the neutral indicator light switch. They're there to stop cross feeds. Looks like the P.O. only did half the job. Starting to look like the problem lies in the actual side stand relay itself. Check this out and let us know.

Trying to explain a bit more, the neutral indicator light switch closes when you're in neutral, allowing power to flow from a +ve source to the neutral light, then via one of the diodes to the switch, which closes to -ve, thus completing the bulb circuit, and allowing it light up.

Power goes from fuse #3 directly to the side stand relay, but now, with the side stand switch effectively shorted out, the relay is permanently energised, with a diode going directly to the common point of the diodes to the neutral indicator light switch.

Like I said - definitely looking like a side stand relay problem.

[osborne]

Good morning Alan. Thanks for taking the time with me bro. To be clear on an earlier post of mine, The sidestand part....that is, the part that bolts to the actual stand down low is missing entirely along with all but an inch or two of the wires attached to it. The PO left a couple inches of the leads below the green harness/clip and twisted them together. My question is: is there a workaround for the missing part and its diode? You mentioned n your last post that the job was "half done". Could you perhaps explain what the other half would be that might prevent the ignition fuse from blowing?

[alantf]

The part that is missing is only the switch. This switch (which is operated by the side stand being either up or down) energises the relay. It puts the positive that's flowing through the relay to earth, and thus completes the circuit. The two wires that are twisted together is the relay positive being put permanently to earth, so the relay is energised all the time, just as it would be if the side stand was up. It's the relay that does all the "thinking", so it acts as though the stand is up, whether it is or not. When you mentioned the neutral light being on or off - the common factor is the relay itself. That's what leads me to believe that this may be where the fault lies. It could be a blocking diode that's failed (allowing current to flow both ways) or anything else. I'll try to do a drawing of the circuit, to explain it to you, and post it as soon as I can. In the meantime, I,m sorry to say that I don't know exactly where the relay is situated, but keep looking for where the two wires go, and I'm sure you'll find it. :tup:

[alantf]

img027.jpg (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=178&stc=1&d=1397488081)

As you can see from the drawing, the engine stop component and lamp are two separate parts of the relay circuit - however - your sidestand switch is disconnected and joined up to ground via the twisted cable. This means that if there's a fault in the relay, power goes straight from fuse #3, via the relay fault, straight to earth. This would also interfere with the lamp/lamp switch part of the relay, so you could get anything weird showing up (lamp on/off etc) So I still think that the fault is something to do with the relay. Afraid you'll have to find it and test for short circuits.

[osborne]

Well........I may have found the problem. Tracing the SS wires back I pulled some loose and badly wrapped Elec tape off the main wire trunk and found that 4 or 5 wires were melted and some burned through completely. Frankly...I'm astounded the bike started at all let alone run smoothly for several minutes. Seems the PO fancied himself a cycle electrician. Jesus. lemme fix the obvious wire problems and get back. Damn good thing the wires are all color coded.

[alantf]

I reckon you've found it. :tup: Can't read the colour codes on the diagram (blurred) but I bet they link up with the relay somehow. If you can find a sidestand switch in our "parting out" section (for the right price) I hope you're tempted to fit it - if only for safety's sake. I've been riding for fifty years, and I'd have still ridden off with the sidestand down, occasionally, if it weren't for the safety switch cutting the engine. :doh:

[osborne]

Ordering the new switch Wednesday on ebay....8 bucks. Now where the hell did I put that pakg of connectors?

[osborne]

WOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!! I think I got it. Patched up the bad wiring, fired it up and it idled for almost ten minutes without a problem. Turned it off and fired it up again for a bit. No problems....gonna put it all back together and see if I can go up and down a block a few times. Fingers crossed.