Warmed up but won't start?

[mainlinecoffee]

Went for a 50 mile cruse and bike ran fine got to final destination and now bike won't start. It's missing two fuses but It ran good. Is it possible I screwed something up or overheated?

[jonathan180iq]

Leave the choke on by chance? At cruising speed and at a constant rate you'd never know you left the choke on until you came to a stop and your idle was crazy high.

Does missing two fuses means they're blown or you left them out on purpose?

What does it do when you try and start it?

[mainlinecoffee]

It dosnt have a choke,always springs to life almost instantly...it acts like it's not getting a spark but all my tools and gear are 65 miles away.

[Water Warrior 2]

Switch to the prime position and see what happens.

[mainlinecoffee]

Sportster tank is on/off

[alantf]

When you say it's missing two fuses - can you be a bit more specific? It could be that one or more is crucial to starting. Also, you haven't told us if they're missing or blown, or if they were ok when you started your journey. To try and identify faults over the internet we need all details, and the full story. :ride: :hmm:

[mainlinecoffee]

Problem is I am not sure when they fell out. Is it possible that if they fell out when running that it would still run but not restart? It only had three fuses and three breakers, the breakers were for main power ignition and tail lamp. I am headed down with tools and spares in a bit.

[alantf]

That would certainly seem to be your problem! :doh: The ignition fuse is in line with the safety switches and starter button, so, of course, it won't start without the fuse. Make sure you replace ALL the fuses before you set off, otherwise things like signals, brake light etc won't work. Also, when you get it home, check WHY the fuses have fallen out. If it's because of a sloppy fit, the holder needs tightening up, as it'll cause a high resistance, overheating of the fuses etc. and probably causing the fuses to fall out again. BTW, it's a 20A fuse in the starter circuit. Can't remember, offhand, what the others are. :ride: :tup:

[mainlinecoffee]

Well I just checked, I have lost all power but it's before the fuses. None are blown.

[alantf]

img082.jpg (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=135&stc=1&d=1394311454) This is the starter circuit, Have you tested the battery?

[mainlinecoffee]

The batt is good. I can turn starter motor by jumping wires on solonoid with a screwdriver. The headlight has been wired straight to the batt and I ditched turn signals. The brake light is my only means of checking current in harness. I will check grounds and main hot wires tomorrow.

[alantf]

7.jpg From this drawing, it seems likely that the problem is one of the safety switches.
(http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=136&stc=1&d=1394357929)

[mainlinecoffee]

With the tail light not coming on I am questioning weather or not any part of it is getting power. I'm going to run down it with a circuit tester

[alantf]

If you can start the bike by shorting out the solenoid, then it DEFINITELY points to a fault in the starter circuit. Most likely it's a safety switch - with my first thought being the clutch switch. Try blasting some contact cleaner in the red switch, clutch switch, and sidestand switch. You might be pleasantly surprised by the results. As for lights not working, have you checked that the bulb hasn't blown. I'll repeat myself, one last time - If you can start up by shorting the solenoid, the fault MUST be in the starter circuit (or the solenoid coil itself). :doh: :ride:

[mainlinecoffee]

Well I don't really understand how that works but I will take your word for it. I will give it a through cleaning tomorrow. Does it seem odd that you can jump the solonoid and crank the bike over when the bike is off? It's making me curious as to weather or not the ignition is working too.

[mainlinecoffee]

If the bike was running and the ignition fuse fell out but the bike didn't die instantly than where was it getting power?

[alantf]

As you can see from the drawing, the ignition circuit is for STARTING the bike. To try and simplify it for you, once it's running, the alternator circuit takes over, and runs the bike. Again, from the drawing, when you short out the solenoid. you're putting power directly to the starter motor, without the circuit that pulls in the solenoid coil (and closes the solenoid) being used. That's why it's GOT to be a fault in the starter circuit (possibly a safety switch fault) stopping the solenoid coil (which closes the solenoid main contact) pulling in. All the solenoid is, is a coil which, when energised by the starter circuit, closes the heavy duty contact, and puts around 80A to the starter.

[Water Warrior 2]

Totally agree with Alantf. It is just a dirty or corroded switch. You just need to track it down. Worst case scenario is a new/used switch from ebay.

[mainlinecoffee]

The clutch is long gone, I use a vice grip attached to the clutch knob to disengage it. I will pull it all apart and check the wiring though. What about the switch in the kick stand? And I don't mean to run in circles but why would I no longer have a tail light? I checked the bulb the fuse and all the connections.

[Water Warrior 2]

"The clutch is long gone." Did you make sure the clutch safety switch is disabled and not subject to causing a problem?

[mainlinecoffee]

It is disabled but it may cause problems. I couldn't find my soldering iron so I stripped the wires and tied them in a double knot before sealing them with liquid electrical tape. When I work on the bike tomorrow I will double check that everything is in order with the clutch and the kickstand. I still do not understand that diagram but I will go on a bit of faith and check it all out. I am still absolutely puzzled by the tail light though. Is it possible it was a bad ground?

[mainlinecoffee]

And on a side note thanks everyone for the support on this it has left me very confused and I may just need l the help I can get.

[Water Warrior 2]

A bad ground could very well have a lot to do with your problems. Chasing one down can be overwhelming without a meter or test light. Double check all the connections you have made and be very sure they make a proper contact. If possible run all ground wires directly to the battery or a junction which has a larger wire that goes to the battery terminal.

I did a junction for ground wires on Lynda's M-50 when installing all the electrical stuff and had just the one heavier wire leading to the battery. It left the battery post uncluttered. For the power feed to all the stuff I had an auxiliary fuse panel with relays to power up heated grips, lights, an air horn and heated gear. One smaller auxiliary wire from the bike's electrical harness tripped all the relays. Even with a lot of planning and diagrams I managed to create a SNAFU. Took me 2 days to figure out why the air horn did not work after the install. Almost crapped my drawers when it finally worked. An air horn in a concrete underground parking area is really really loud up close and personal.

[alantf]

You definitely need a multimeter. They're only $10 or so, and you can't fault find without them. The tail light cable runs from the front to the back of the bike, so with the two faults (starting and tail light) it's possible that there's a break in the harness, somewhere. To find this (if it IS the problem) you'll have to remove the seat, tank etc. and do a visual check.

[mainlinecoffee]

I will get one ASAP,I think I will run a universal ground wire from the battery along the harness. I ended up having to postpone another day due to halfassed shananagans but I will keep y'all posted with my findings. Who knows maybe someone else may avoid the same pitfalls.

[alantf]

First step - if you haven't already done so - get a spray of contact cleaner, and blast it into the safety switches. Who knows, you may have two separate faults. If this gets the bike running, that's one fault out of the way. Remember - be methodical. Step by step. Don't just THINK what the fault MAY be. Prove each step as you go along. :ride: :tup:

[mainlinecoffee]

Well I got one part solved, my starter solonoid fell apart when I lifted it up,exposing two metal prongs. Bypassed it and wired straight to battery and I now have a tail light. I am off in search of contact cleaner now, didn't want to use Remington oil. Guess we will see.

[alantf]

ebay for a new/secondhand solenoid?

[mainlinecoffee]

Yep,10 bucks.

[mainlinecoffee]

As it turns out,it was the solonoid not powering anything on top of a bad connection to the kickstand. Wired the solonoid to bypass the bad connection and bypassed the kickstand all togather and it jumped to life with plenty of time to spare on this beautiful day!

[alantf]

Glad we managed to point you in the right direction to start your tests. Sometimes it's not easy over the internet. :tup:

[mainlinecoffee]

Yep, worst part is communication,that diagram of the ignition is still confusing me but I can't fight fact just because I don't understand. One day of riding and it's back to 20-40 degrees all week.