new jet now it wont start

[iMoon1221]

i got a new jet because i have a slip on muffler on the way (got the bike with no muffler) the store only had a 140 so i decided to try it. i also did the needle shim mod. initially it started and ran good with a little throttle. the next morning it just wouldnt start. now the battery sounds like its giving out. should i just wait for the muffler and hope it helps?

[Goose51683]

Did you take the old exhaust off?

Give us a little more info if you could. Any unusual sounds? Does it just turn over and turn over with no ignition?

If you still have the old muffler on it but the 140 jet you may have to much fuel, meaning you either need to wait for the new exhaust or go back to your old jet.

Dead battery is from trying to start the engine over and over. Make sure you charge it up slowly before you try again. A weak battery will make it harder to figure out.

Try to give us some more description and we will see what other ideas we have.

[jonathan180iq]

Couple of simple things first:

Did you drain the float bowl when you removed the carb? Is the petcock set to 'RUN'?
If a lot of fuel drained out, then all of your attempts at cranking are relying on the vacuum created to refill the float bowl first. The bike isn't going to run until that is filled and the fuel circulation is working as it should again. That can take a while. The second part of that questions is whether or not the two little vacuum hoses that run from the gas tank to the carb at attached. It's not uncommon for someone to miss one of the 2. I have done it myself.

It would make sense to me that the bike would initially fire based on some residual fuel in the line. But then it would peter out because the fuel in the float bowl, which is relied upon to be the constant supply once the bike is running, wouldn't be there.

Put the petcock on PRI to prime the carb and then try.

a 140 is too rich for just an exhaust (or lack thereof) but it should still run.

Do you smell gas in the exhaust after you are cranking?

[iMoon1221]

Thank you for your replies! im loving this forum more and more every time I use it. you guys are amazing and with out your help my gz would have no hope lol
there was no muffler on it when I got it. so I didn't take anything off.
it sounds like it wants to start but cant quite get it. sometimes it just sound like the starters going and that's all.
when my brother and I opened up the carb im pretty sure everything was drained. I didn't see any gas anywhere and we cleaned everything up.
as far as the hoses I checked them, double checked, then triple checked, because I too have missed that in the (not so distant) past.
I don't recall smelling gas but its possible
I somehow managed to misplace the old jet so im going to try to go to a different shop and get a couple jets today. if I cant I guess Ill just have to be patient and wait for the muffler I ordered and hope it helps

[jonathan180iq]

It should at least run with the 140, even if it's too rich. So keep trying to get her to hit.

The reason I asked if you smelled gas was because it is possible to basically flood the chamber with too rich of a jet, but you should smell it out of your open header.

You'll get it. Just make sure you keep that battery topped up or you'll start wondering why it won't start and it won't have anything to do with the carb. These things full juice to fire properly.

[iMoon1221]

how do i keep the battery topped up? does that just mean to charge it?

[jonathan180iq]

Battery tender, trickle charger, whatever you want. There isn't a whole lot of reserve on these after a good "why the hell won't this think crank" session.

[Goose51683]

Yeah just charge it slowly if possible (2amp charge)

[iMoon1221]

so i tried a 130 jet and it still wont start. i can hear it.."chugging"? like its trying to start. i dont smell gas and the float bowl is full when i open the carb.
what am i doing wrong?:(

[jonathan180iq]

Kill switch turned on? Everything else right?
Are you positive that you seated the needle diaphragm properly? They can get pinched.

Are you using choke?

[iMoon1221]

kill switch is on. iv tried with and without choke.
im going to check the needle diaphragm and ill post results soon!
thanks for helping me work through this!

[iMoon1221]

http://www.postimage.org/aV209bri.jpg
instead of looking like the pic it was all pinched together. i adjusted to look like the picture and still nothing :/

[iMoon1221]

me and my brother looked at everything. the spark plug was wet from gas and there was gas mixed with the oil. we cleaned the plugged, drained the oil and put some new oil in it. 10w40. tried it with choke and without. adjusted the idle screw. checked out the carb. checked all the hoses to make sure theyre connected. I don't know what else to do. I feel like iv tried everything... except the one thing that's wrong obviously

[Goose51683]

Imoon- I wish I could help you but I'm having the exact same problem.

[iMoon1221]

that sucks to hear!
well i guess we can both keep trying and posting our results. eventually one of us will find a solution!

[Goose51683]

Sorry but I hope it's me. Haha

[iMoon1221]

me too so you can just tell me what to do and i can save some frustration lol

[Goose51683]

Lol I'm on month 2 now and my head is about to explode.

[iMoon1221]

youve been dealing with this for 2 months?! im already about to just give up and go to a shop

[Goose51683]

I don't go to shops. It's a point of personal pride. It's probably also the reason it's been two months. Honestly though 5-6 weeks of that has been waiting on parts from bike shops that forgot to mention that parts are on back order

I'm taking my carb apart and cleaning everything. I'm getting what I would consider excessive gas in the carb so may e that's my
Problem. Ill try anything at this point

[iMoon1221]

i get that. my girlfriend keeps telling me to take it in and i keep saying "i can do it!"
i just really want to ride it!
my problem started after i did the needle shim mod and bigger jet. iv gone down from 140 to 130. and i just reversed the needle shim mod just to see.. no luck. i would go back to the 120, but..somehow i lost it :/ but i feel like thats not it.
when me and my brother cleanedthe carb we took everything out of it. could it be that a jet isnt screwed in the right number of turns? or the float is somehow out of position?

[Water Warrior 2]

Have you checked the float height? Or maybe it is hanging up and flooding the entire system.

[Goose51683]

I know I had a problem with the needle jet when I did the mod. I didn't push the plastic piece above the needle all the way in so that everything was tight. I think you may have mentioned checking this before but I thought I'd mention it.

[jonathan180iq]

After reading through the conversation that it looks like you guys had last night, I was going to suggest what WaterWarrior brought up.
If you were getting gas in the oil, that's alot more gas going into the chamber than what you would expect from being simply a little rich. You must just be washing the cylinder in gasoline.

If you did a complete tear down when you did the jet swap, then you need to check a few things and then try again.

(By the way, the needle clip on these bikes comes in two forms. Some of them have the distinct ridges, like mine did. And some simply slide up and down on the needle, which sounds like what you have. There were also a few carbs that were set up differently. These can be identified in the service manual pretty early on. You need to download that if you haven't already done so. On top of information like I just mentioned, it also has a trouble shooting guide and photos to go along with it. It's an invaluable resource.)
LINK: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27 (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27)

Pull the float bowl again. With the back side of your fingernail, lightly flick the float to make sure it's moving freely. It literally floats to control bowl height. If something causes that to hang up, your bowl will just be always overflowing or too low.

If you removed and cleaned jets, did you count how many turns out the pilot was? Did you tap and remove the cover on the idle adjustment screw (not the idle control knob).

A main jet will increase flow slightly through all ranges of the engine operation, but it's mostly concerned with 3/4-full throttle. That being said, it will still effect your idle and mid range operation. So a little tweaking isn't unheard of. But, again, it should at least crank even if you dropped in a 145 or something. So the issue is somewhere else.

Where in TN are you? I'm in Dalton. I'm not that far and I have spare jets left over from many moons ago.

[iMoon1221]

i checked the float and it seems fine
my brother took the jets out but i don't think he counted. im pretty sure he didn't take them all out. ill have to check with him
and we didn't mess with the idle adjustment screw.

i live in Antioch. kinda of in the middle of no where

[jonathan180iq]

Shit man, I drove right past you a weekend ago on the way to pick up a buddy in Smyrna...

I frequent a lot of the Pull-A-Parts down all over the SE. If you haven't gotten this sorted out by next weekend (Sept. 6, 7 & 8) I can make a double trip. Buy my breakfast and we'll call it even. I like Supersonic burritos with egg whites and a touch of salsa. Mango/mint Sprite for the lunch break. ;)

[iMoon1221]

i finally found the original jet! so now i have 120,130 and 140. so i might not need any more jets but i appreciate it!

[alantf]

Buy my breakfast and we'll call it even. I like Supersonic burritos with egg whites and a touch of salsa.

A "proper" breakfast consists of sausages, bacon, eggs, mushrooms, tomatoes, baked beans, hash browns and fried bread. Followed by toast and marmalade. It's called an English breakfast. Just going into the kitchen for mine, now. :2tup:

[Fawlty]

Buy my breakfast and we'll call it even. I like Supersonic burritos with egg whites and a touch of salsa.

A "proper" breakfast consists of sausages, bacon, eggs, mushrooms, tomatoes, baked beans, hash browns and fried bread. Followed by toast and marmalade. It's called an English breakfast. Just going into the kitchen for mine, now. :2tup:

What, no Spam Al??

[alantf]

No, that's for a mid morning snack, along with chips and more baked beans. :roll:

[iMoon1221]

theres hope!!
I took my dad to pick his bike up (he was getting a tune up and what not) and decided to talk to the mechanics about my issues. they actually talked to me for a while and helped a lot. I got home determined to find the problem... I didn't really find it, but I got it to start!
I took the float bowl off and pulled out the float and needle to make sure everything was good. I put it all back carefully. I had a 130 jet in and decided to put the 120 in since it was open. I also had my slip on muffler on ( just shoved on, not bolted down or anything) checked all my hoses and whatnot. I tried it.. it didn't work but it almost did. so I couldn't give up. with a couple tries and a little love from the throttle I got her to start up!
im not sure what was wrong but something about the mixture of everything worked!

[Fawlty]

theres hope!!

im not sure what was wrong but something about the mixture of everything worked!

A little like the full English Breakfast then!

[iMoon1221]

haha exactly!

[Rookie Rider]

I did the needle mod and put a choke on (never had one on) new gas tank and petcock, and mine wont run either. Start and sounds shitty. The bike has been very reliable for me so im not mad at her yet. YET!!