just refuse to start

[jsbulat]

Hi,
Could you please help me?

My GZ250 just refuse to start.
Usually it was starting very easy, but once it stall on the stop sign when i release the clutch at wrong shift. After that it not even "sneeze" when trying to start. Battery is fully charged and ive checked the spark-it's ok.

Is this known issue and what can you recommend?

Thank you.

PS. 1) Does not start whether i use choke or not.
2) Battery is good, spark looks good. Turns very good.
3) There is a lot gasoline in air filter chamber (probably because of desperate cranking).

[JWR]

Change or clean the spark plug.

[Rookie Rider]

Welcome aboard. Make sure you have gas in the tank and its not empty............... Hey, it happens.

[alantf]

See 3) above. Did you flood the engine while trying to start it? If you did, it needs to sit & dry out for a while, with the plug removed.

[jsbulat]

Thank you for reply.
I left it overnight, recharged battery and replaced spark plug. Also rechecked fuel level...

I managed to start engine, but it stall again in a few seconds. While starting i had to turn throttle control all the way. Motor sounds weird - very loud and unstable. More like shooting rather than purring.
If I've use choke or let throttle go little bit forward - it stalls.
White smoke of unburned gasoline coming out muffler.

Any idea what should i check next?

I am not professional, but i am afraid there could be problem with the camshaft or ignition timing, because there was no any sign of trouble before. It just stop starting after i've started moving on wrong gear (not sure).

[jonathan180iq]

How thick is the white smoke? Are you sure it's not blue or blue/gray?

There is a long tube that hangs from the bottom of the air box. It has a plug on the bottom. Pull that plug and drain the gunk out of your air box. Then pull your left side cover to access the air filter. Remove the air filter and remove any debris that may have accumulated on it. Leave the air filter out, and try to start to the bike. If it starts easier with no restriction, then I know what your problem is.

Do you keep up with maintenance on this bike regularly, or do you just kind of ride it until something happens? Simply bogging down in gear and killing the motor shouldn't have caused any real problems.

[jsbulat]

The smoke was not thick but clearly visible and it was white.
Once i drained air box and remove air filter, smoke disappear, but this is only improvement. It still starts only on full throttle. Once i touch the choke lever - engine stall. And the sound is still weird.
Air filter looks clean.

I do not know about maintenance - i just got this bike and rode only about 50 miles (out of 1000 on odometer). It is possible that previous owner did not perform maintenance regularly.

[jonathan180iq]

There are certainly some issues... Has the bike been sitting for a long time? White smoke indicates moisture. It's simply burning off condensation and whatever small amounts of carbon residue are able to be burned away. The best thing for a bike that has been sitting is to get her running again and to take it out for a long ride, but to do that, we have to get it to crank.

When you bought it, had he already cranked the bike and warmed it up? So far I don't know if you have an air delivery or fuel delivery problem. From cold, apply full choke and do not use the throttle. It is very common on these bikes for choke to be needed almost year round, except for the hottest days of summer.

Have a friend hold a dollar bill over the end of the exhaust when you try to crank it. It should not ever be sucked in towards the exhaust, it should only be blown away, as a steady angle. (It's just a little test. I'm eliminating variables)

You didn't do anything wrong by trying to start it in the wrong gear. We've all done that. If something has failed at the same time, it's not because of that.

[jsbulat]

jonathan180iq,
Thank you for the tip. I will try this thing with the dollar bill tomorrow and post results.

I have rode this bike 3 times before this happen and it was starting flawlessly. Yes, i always have to use choke on cold engine.

This problem came out of nowhere - i took it for inspection (it started easy) and then, on my way back that happen. (I did not get inspection because of dry front tire).

I do not have experience with bikes, but i have experience fixing and troubleshooting my old car in 1990s. Same simple design (only difference in the number of wheels and cylinders :) . If it were my old car i would say it is the problem with ignition timing or timing chain slipped one tooth (not sure if it is correct wording) and camshaft has no synchronization with the crankshaft and as the result valves are out of sync (worst case scenario). In the car it will most certainly ruin valves, pistons, cylinder block head. As i understand this is why you suggest "dollar bill" test.
Another, less likely possibility, is that idle regulator died.
Not sure what of this could be applied to the bike though.

Just being paranoid - week before that i forgot key in the ignition for 5 days and drain out battery. I put battery on charger before the day bike died. Cant see if it could possible be related, but "what if..."

[Rookie Rider]

What part of New York are you from ?

[jsbulat]

I am in Merrick, Nassau county.
Used to live in Flushing, and still telling everyone that i am New Yorker :)

[jonathan180iq]

The battery dying is only a concern if you don't have enough juice to turn the motor over. It sounds like attempting to start the bike isn't a problem. If you have a charger, just keep your battery in good shape and don't worry about that part.

The dollar bill test will let us know if your valves are out of whack. After that, there is a guide on this website for checking them for real. All you need are some feeler gauges and a couple of sockets. And once you get to the point where you can check then, then adjusting them isn't that much harder, if it's needed.

Did you experience any slowly progressing issues at all? When your valves are off, you're going to have a hard time starting, but it should still start.

[raul10141964]

check the main jet on the carburator and the flout neadle

[jonathan180iq]

Raul is right. If you feel confident in doing some light maintenance, we can walk you through just about everything.
You might want to pull the carb and make sure everything is clean. If you've only ridden 50 miles and aren't sure of the previous maintenance, we might as well give everything a good once over.

If Rookie can get over to you day, we can give him a call and do this all over the phone.

It's hard to diagnose whats going on through words. Any chance you can get us a video of what happens when you try and start the bike?

[jsbulat]

That's make perfect sense, Jonathan.
I've made the video how i started bike without choke. After that i wanted to show what happens when i use choke lever, but at the time i already flooded spark plug and was not be able to start again :( Usually what happens: in the middle position engine skipping, in the down position it dies. It does not starts at all if the choke is not in top forward position. Video taken with air filter removed and choke lever in front position (dialog in Russian language, if you wonder :) ).

Link to the video: http://youtu.be/fgloLqW0Bxc

I performed "dollar bill" test and it comes out good - no back-draft whatsoever.

I will do some more maintenance on Saturday: valve adjustment and carburetor cleaning/adjustment. Will post results.
If there is something else i can check, please tell me. Something small i can try every day, big tasks only on weekend.

I don't mind to get some grease on my hands, but i am always afraid to dismount something big (like engine dismount and disassemble because i am not ready to commit into mounting it back :biggrin: ).

Thank you for your time.

(Did you know that in Russian language you write word "you" with the capital "Y" and world "I" with minuscule "i"?

[jsbulat]

Raul,

Cleaning and adjustment carburetor is a big job. I am certainly going to do it on weekend and post results, but do you really think that wrong float needle adjustment could cause immediate failure? Like bike stared and run perfectly good and immediately after that just wont start at all?
I don't really know. But unless there is some big clog made its way to carburetor, problems should accumulate during some time before become so bad as mine...

Actually, that's quite a possibility. Lets say sudden stop (because of wrong gear start) agitates dirt in the tank that clogs (one of) the carburetor passage(s). That definitely could be a reason of immediate carburetor malfunction.

Thank you for consideration.

[Water Warrior 2]

Just a thought here. The bike ran well until the inspection. Was something done to it during the inspection? Yes, I am a suspicious kind of guy.

[Rookie Rider]

I can meet up with you jsbulat, im always in Levittown, and Hicksville visiting my brother and my sister.

[Rookie Rider]

I took my carb off and took all the jets out. First time for me, and it wasnt all that bad honestly.

[jonathan180iq]

I took my carb off and took all the jets out. First time for me, and it wasnt all that bad honestly.

It's pretty straight forward:
-Remove tank (gas line, vaccum line and 2 bolts)
-Drain float bowl
-Remove carb
-Clean
-Reinstall

There are photos in various parts of the forum if you need a guide.

Make sure your phillips head bits are the proper size and that they are good and sharp. You will also want to have a small set of vise grips on hand in case some of those little screws are really stuck on there. Be careful not to strip the cross head on the screw. Finding replacements can be difficult.

EDIT: I can't access the video at work. I should be able to get back to you after lunch, EST.

[jsbulat]

Water Warrior,
I am also suspicious kind of a guy. But the guy did not touch it. He looked at the tire and said that it needs replacement and he does not have such exotic tire.

[jsbulat]

Thank you Rookie Rider, that is very nice. I will try to do carb cleaning and valve adjustment this weekend. And if this does not resolve issue, i will really appreciate some help in person.

[Water Warrior 2]

Water Warrior,
I am also suspicious kind of a guy. But the guy did not touch it. He looked at the tire and said that it needs replacement and he does not have such exotic tire.
Exotic !!!!! No problem. I'm sure our members who have replaced tires will chip in with suggestions of what to buy and where to buy.

[mrlmd1]

By the video - It sounds like your bike is turning over a little slowly when you try and start it. Charge up the battery again before you run it down more by repeatedly attempting to start it. Sometimes that can be one of the problems (a weak battery). and there is no significant charging at idle or slow speeds. You need a good, charged battery for the bike to run, then we can work on what sounds like a dirty carb problem. Have you tried to put some Berryman's B-12 or Seafoam into the carb and let it soak overnight, and add some to the fuel (1 oz/gal) to try and clean it that way before taking it apart?

[raul10141964]

clog main jet will aloud to idle but not rev
clog flout nidle will file like run out of gas

[jonathan180iq]

... will chip in with suggestions of what to buy and where to buy.

Cut from the following link: http://gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1058
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There aren't many tire options for our bike that come in a matching set. There are, however, many options if you don't mind mixing up tire brands and/or going to a slightly smaller tire up front.

The factory tires sizes are: 110/90-16 (F) & 130/90-15 (R)

The rim width for the front wheel is 2.5" and the rear wheel width is 3.0"
That being the case, a size 100/90-16 front tire will work on this bike. It does have an overall diameter decrease of 9mm over the 110/90-16 but that isn't really very drastic.

Samato has verified that alternate tire size 100/90-16 will mount up with no problem.

As well, the 120/80-16 alternate tire size is another choice for the front tire and has been successfully mounted by MRLMD1.

Factory replacement tires: 110/90-16 & 130/90-15
Dunlop D404 (only available through a Suzuki dealer)
Metzeler ME77 (only available through a Suzuki dealer)
Cheng Shin C906 & C907 (possibly no longer available)

Rear Factory Replacements:
Kenda Challenger
Pirelli MT66 (Route 66)
Maxxis M6103
Cheng Shin Marquis
Metzeler Me 77

Factory Replacement Front:
GBC Green Shark
Metzler Lasertec
Pirelli Sport Demon
Avon Roadrider AM26
Conti Ultra TKV11
Kenda K671 & K673

100/90-16 Front:
Bridgestone BT45
Maxxis M6002
Cheng Shin C6000
Kenda Cruiser
IRC Durotour

Matching tires with low profile front: 100/91-16 & 130/90-15
Kenda Cruiser



For more discussion and lots of info, see these posts:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=722 (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=722)

&

viewtopi (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopi) ... =10&t=1818

[jsbulat]

Jonathan, thank you for the links, I will definitely follow recommendations... once i get bike running :)

[jsbulat]

I did not make it today completely - only clean carb and check gas filter. It looks looks i found the problem: even overall carb looks very clean, the tip of needle valve was covered with white goo. I hope this was the problem. I did not have a chance to try it running yet though.

Also i was trying to check valve adjustment but i am having troubles with it.
1) Manual states: Rotate the crankshaft with a box wrench. I do not have a box wrench and i do not know what to buy. What size should it be? (I had to adjusted crankshaft by by pulling bike on the first shift engaged until "T" aligned with arrow - don want to do it ever again).
2) Images in the manual are very blurry and misleading and i cant understand where should i measure the clearance between the
valve stem end and the adjusting screw on the rocker arm. I was trying to measure "A" and "B" (see pic f1) but no successes. Could you please point me to clear explanations how should i do it?

[Rookie Rider]

You can try an adjustable wrench too.

[blaine]

Measure between valve stem & adjuster. :)

[jonathan180iq]

Valve adjustment guide:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5061 (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5061)

[jsbulat]

Thank you guys,
And special thanks to Jonathan. Carburetor was the show stopper. After cleaning it everything back to normal.
I still do not know what this white goo was and, more importantly, how to prevent buildup in the future - but for now it's ok and i am happy!

[blaine]

Thank you guys,
And special thanks to Jonathan. Carburetor was the show stopper. After cleaning it everything back to normal.
I still do not know what this white goo was and, more importantly, how to prevent buildup in the future - but for now it's ok and i am happy!

Some Berrymans B12 or SeaFoam once a month or so will keep things clean & running smoothly.
:cool:

[jonathan180iq]

Some Berrymans B12 or SeaFoam once a month or so will keep things clean & running smoothly.
:cool:

:plus1:
Yup. Find a decent fuel treatment/crab cleaner additive and use some every other tank.

Goo can form anywhere that a little moisture has gotten trapped in an air-tight environment and then mixed with some oil or gasoline. Since you've seen it, check again in a couple of months and see if it reappears. It shouldn't, now that everything is good and clean.

[alantf]

Yup. Find a decent crab cleaner

Difficult these days, now the fishing industry's gone up the swanee. :whistle: :crackup

[jonathan180iq]

I refer you, sir, to my signature image......

[Rookie Rider]

Lol, you guys.

[blaine]

One crab cleaner.
http://s15.postimg.org/71d69ecw7/stock_illustration_5770139_crab_cleaning_the_beach .jpg (http://postimg.org/image/71d69ecw7/)

:biggrin: :tongue: