Attempting to adjust the valves, questions...

[chandlerbingfl]

I decided I needed to adjust the valves, especially the exhaust valves. I've noticed just a difference in the tone of the bike, plus when it gets hot I can see wisps of smoke coming from the area of the exhaust pipes but can't tell exactly from where. Mind you I'm probably a grade below backyard mechanic so I followed the guide previously posted on the board.

Now I have 2 questions.... During tear down I decided to check the air filter and I noticed a coating of oil inside the housing, although the filter looks clean. Is this normal? Also I remember reading about the hose that comes out of the bottom of the filter housing (for drainage maybe), but the hose on mine has a plug at the end. Is that normal?

At this point I'm just trying to get the cover off on the left side so I can spin the motor to TDC.....but the cover isn't moving at this point. Is it really that hard to unscrew? Looks like whoever removed it last time chunked up the slot that one uses to remove said cover so I'm going to have to find something that will bite a bit more...

Well back out to the garage....look forward to some insight from you guys here!

chandlerbingfl

[blaine]

Yes,it is normal to have a film of oil on the inside of the airbox.You remove the plug to drain any gunk from the airbox.When finished be sure to replace the plug or the bike will run like crap.I found that a small pry bar or a
large washer works well for removing the side cover.
:) :2tup:

[OldNTired]

I decided I needed to adjust the valves, especially the exhaust valves. I've noticed just a difference in the tone of the bike, plus when it gets hot I can see wisps of smoke coming from the area of the exhaust pipes but can't tell exactly from where. Mind you I'm probably a grade below backyard mechanic so I followed the guide previously posted on the board.

Now I have 2 questions.... During tear down I decided to check the air filter and I noticed a coating of oil inside the housing, although the filter looks clean. Is this normal? Also I remember reading about the hose that comes out of the bottom of the filter housing (for drainage maybe), but the hose on mine has a plug at the end. Is that normal?

At this point I'm just trying to get the cover off on the left side so I can spin the motor to TDC.....but the cover isn't moving at this point. Is it really that hard to unscrew? Looks like whoever removed it last time chunked up the slot that one uses to remove said cover so I'm going to have to find something that will bite a bit more...

Well back out to the garage....look forward to some insight from you guys here!

chandlerbingfl


A slight film of oil is ok, but you MUST remove the plug at the end of that hose.
And, you must replace the plug after draning any water, oil, etc..
Removing the side plate is a bit tricky, or should I say that it CAN be,
if the tool you use doesn't fit well. It sounds like either
the PO (or you) tried using a screwdriver!
I found an old multitool for a bike that fits perfectly. The thing is about 80 years old,
so I doubt you will find one. :)
But, just by trying, I found that a silver dollar (Silver Eagle) fits perfectly,
as will a one ounce silver round. Just hold it with vise grips and turn.
The point is, find something big, curved, and the right radius and the job is easy!
I haven't found a screwdriver that will work.

[Water Warrior 2]

The Silver Eagle is likely the cheapest tool in the tool box too.

[raul10141964]

I use one of the round spark plug gaper $1.00 at autozone

[chandlerbingfl]

Thanks for all the info! I've yet to try any of the solutions as I started a job today...after 20 months of no job. Tomorrow is my day to do what I can to get the valves adjusted.

I did not have any luck using my previous McGyver methods to get that cover off....and yes the slot is jacked from the previous owner. Since I don't have a Silver Dollar laying around I'nm going to try the circular plug gapper and see what happens.

Another question - why is there so much gunk in the air housing drain tube? Is that all just a build up of old oil?

Thanks again!
chandlerbingfl

[blaine]

Another question - why is there so much gunk in the air housing drain tube? Is that all just a build up of old oil?

Thanks again!
chandlerbingfl

Yes a build up of oil & water vapors from the crank case.
:) :cool:

[OldNTired]

The Silver Eagle is likely the cheapest tool in the tool box too.

These days, that's pretty much the truth. And, it's a multi-use tool as well!
And, WW, you can use a Maple Leaf instead of the Eagle. :)

[Water Warrior 2]

I actually get to see more Eagles in this area. Real Eagles with feathers and sharp talons. They fly down here from Alaska every year for the winter. The Eagle count volunteers started last week and have positive comments. Lots of early arrivals and the fish/food supply is abundant this year.

[chandlerbingfl]

Another question - why is there so much gunk in the air housing drain tube? Is that all just a build up of old oil?

Thanks again!
chandlerbingfl

Yes a build up of oil & water vapors from the crank case.
:) :cool:

But isn't this an air INTAKE??? Wouldn't pressure flowing into the carb/engine prevent this? Just wondering..

chandlerbingfl

[chandlerbingfl]

Well quick update....nothing has worked. I tried WD-40, PB Blaster, the coin, the spark plug gapper and it will not budge....

Any ideas?!?!?!?!?!

Thanks!
chandlerbingfl

[alantf]

Yes a build up of oil & water vapors from the crank case.


.........So why don't the American bikes have a crank case ventilation system, like my European GZ? :??:

[blaine]

Another question - why is there so much gunk in the air housing drain tube? Is that all just a build up of old oil?

Thanks again!
chandlerbingfl

Yes a build up of oil & water vapors from the crank case.
:) :cool:

But isn't this an air INTAKE??? Wouldn't pressure flowing into the carb/engine prevent this? Just wondering..

chandlerbingflThe air intake is at the front of the air filter.Thats also why the plug must be replaced after the airbox is drained.
:) :cool:

[PG tips]

I thought the air was pulled through the breather hose from the crankcase towards the intake, meaning there must be some ventilation inlet somewhere?
hence why inlet screens get oily as the oil mist lands on it as it passes the screen/filter mesh on the way to the manifold inlet, or in the case of the GZ ends up drained down into the tube in the inlet assy.

After reading the wiki page (which despite hearing otherwise, I usually find informative and accurate) has confused me as it seems to suggest the air is going the other way (in its car example)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankcase_ ... ion_system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankcase_ventilation_system).

I was never quite well up on breather hoses, years ago they were explained to me as equalizing pressure in different parts of an engine crankcase (as it wouldn't be possible to seal an engine up entirely)
after I found out
that they're to extract gases, unburned products, oil and water vapours cleanly.

I think both are accurate though?

[raul10141964]

I use the spark plug gapper and a vice grip to hold it

[Water Warrior 2]

PG, can't explain it fully but you may want to adjust your thinking due to one odd fact with the GZ. The air flow is opposite of most other vehicles. The fresh air enters the inside of the filter and passes to the outside of it. The air is then inside the sealed air box and has to go to the intake of the carb. The mung and residues are from engine blowby and will normally be sucked into the engine through the carb/intake system. Anything you find in the air box is likely just too heavy for the airflow to pick up. That is the reason for the airbox drain tube and it's plug.
Modern engines can be a sealed system but have check valves and other sophisticated controls to allow them to run properly. Motorcycles do not have to meet the very strick regulations that cars do so their systems are less sophisticated and old school.
Hope this helps a little.

[PG tips]

PG, can't explain it fully but you may want to adjust your thinking due to one odd fact with the GZ. The air flow is opposite of most other vehicles. The fresh air enters the inside of the filter and passes to the outside of it. The air is then inside the sealed air box and has to go to the intake of the carb. The mung and residues are from engine blowby and will normally be sucked into the engine through the carb/intake system. Anything you find in the air box is likely just too heavy for the airflow to pick up. That is the reason for the airbox drain tube and it's plug.
Modern engines can be a sealed system but have check valves and other sophisticated controls to allow them to run properly. Motorcycles do not have to meet the very strick regulations that cars do so their systems are less sophisticated and old school.
Hope this helps a little.

I had a look at the filter (and removed it), I noticed the intake is at the centre alright, I wasn't really aware that the airflow direction was unusual on the GZ (very little experience on motorbikes and their maintenance really or anything with a cylindrical filter, most of what I have come across has a flat filter or a different type of filtering). I also had some oil residue in the tube on mine and a slight smell of petrol in my airbox. On a side note, I can see now that without the plug, the inlet could either lose some of its low pressure? (vacuum) or pull in extra unfiltered air. I've read somewhere here that it will run rough without the plug.

Regarding the breather hose, what i was meaning was I had always thought the blowby came from the crankcase up the breather hose towards the airbox in all vehicle types.
It is just the wiki page seems to describe the blowby travelling the other way?? and thinking about it again,in some cases it could so long as it picks up contaminants and is entered back into the inlet airstream. I know it is a description for cars, I'd assume the principle is the same, just that it is more refined for cars likely due to emissions and regulations).

Thats all getting away from the GZ, so back again

I was wondering, if air is being pulled up the breather hose due to the low pressure in the airbox, then surely there must be another (presumably mesh covered metered) hole in the crankcase to allow this air in?

Or am I still getting this wrong

[Water Warrior 2]

I honestly don't know how the blowby gets to the air box. I never dug into a GZ to find out. Some one with actual experience will chime in shortly to teach us both. I will also look at the GZ fiche file at Ronayers to see if it can help.

Found the answer. There is a hose from the air box to the crank case.

[OldNTired]

I actually get to see more Eagles in this area. Real Eagles with feathers and sharp talons. They fly down here from Alaska every year for the winter. The Eagle count volunteers started last week and have positive comments. Lots of early arrivals and the fish/food supply is abundant this year.

Lucky man! The closest (living) Eagles to me are at the Grand Canyon of Pennsylvania, many miles from here.

[Water Warrior 2]

I actually get to see more Eagles in this area. Real Eagles with feathers and sharp talons. They fly down here from Alaska every year for the winter. The Eagle count volunteers started last week and have positive comments. Lots of early arrivals and the fish/food supply is abundant this year.

Lucky man! The closest (living) Eagles to me are at the Grand Canyon of Pennsylvania, many miles from here.
I'll have to make a point of going to view the Eagles soon. The largest numbers are sometime in January from what I hear so I'll make more than one trip across town. I wish I could figure out how Lynda's DSLR works and I could take a pic with real eye popping clarity across the river.

[OldNTired]

[quote="Water Warrior":sb501oat]I actually get to see more Eagles in this area. Real Eagles with feathers and sharp talons. They fly down here from Alaska every year for the winter. The Eagle count volunteers started last week and have positive comments. Lots of early arrivals and the fish/food supply is abundant this year.

Lucky man! The closest (living) Eagles to me are at the Grand Canyon of Pennsylvania, many miles from here.
I'll have to make a point of going to view the Eagles soon. The largest numbers are sometime in January from what I hear so I'll make more than one trip across town. I wish I could figure out how Lynda's DSLR works and I could take a pic with real eye popping clarity across the river.[/quote:sb501oat]

Across town, huh? That's ok, I'm not jealous, not a bit! It only takes me about 5 hours to see some. We still have falcons nearby. But they are mostly leaving now, it's getting a bit cold for them. And cold for me, too!

[Water Warrior 2]

Actually the Eagles are very cooperative this time of year. Just driving to the coffee shop will let me see one or two sitting in a tree along the way. They are a beautiful bird and should be appreciated. Luckily there is a very dedicated group of folks here who take care of sick and injured Eagles with most returning to the wild after a lot of TLC. There is a dedicated refuge for them that is privately owned but is supported by donations and volunteers.
Just as a matter of interest. I was reading a while ago that the Bald Eagle doesn't have a white head until it matures around 7 or 8 years of age.

[OldNTired]

Actually the Eagles are very cooperative this time of year. Just driving to the coffee shop will let me see one or two sitting in a tree along the way. They are a beautiful bird and should be appreciated. Luckily there is a very dedicated group of folks here who take care of sick and injured Eagles with most returning to the wild after a lot of TLC. There is a dedicated refuge for them that is privately owned but is supported by donations and volunteers.
Just as a matter of interest. I was reading a while ago that the Bald Eagle doesn't have a white head until it matures around 7 or 8 years of age.

You do live in a wonderful place, sounds like. I spent some time a while back in Portland, Oregon, and enjoyed every minute of it. And, it was warmer in the winter than where I live! But, it was wet, and not as hot in the summer. Still, I wuldn't mind going a bit farther North for a vacation, just to see what it's like. I had a chance to work a few months in Edmunton years ago, but it was winter and I didn't think I'd enjoy that part!


chandlerbingfl, the only advice I can give at this point is for you to put whatever 'tool' fits best into the slot, grab it with a pair of vise grips, and tap it STRAIGHT IN with a hammer to make sure the 'tool' is seated. Then, while pushing the tool in, turn it, or maybe even tap the tool a bit to help loosen it. Have you tried a penetrating oil on it? I really hope it wasn't cross-threaded!

[Water Warrior 2]

OldNTired, a few Winter months in Edmonton would have been a lesson to never do it again. I spent 60 winters there..yeah, that is dumb. By the time I realized there were better places to live I had locked myself into a holding pattern with a pension at the end. With age the Winters seem harsher and harder to deal with. Surviving a winter was a relief and then I'd spend the summer in recovery mode just to do it all over again. I retired April/1/2005 and was moved in here less than a month later. Warm fresh air, no flat prairies and really fine people here. Even the dogs are friendlier and happier.
Do I like it here? You bet. I'd love to win a lottery so I could afford a house here. Cutom built with a honkin big garage for toys. Toys may not include another bike though. I lost interest in riding but bikes still hold my attention big time.

[OldNTired]

OldNTired, a few Winter months in Edmonton would have been a lesson to never do it again. I spent 60 winters there..yeah, that is dumb. By the time I realized there were better places to live I had locked myself into a holding pattern with a pension at the end. With age the Winters seem harsher and harder to deal with. Surviving a winter was a relief and then I'd spend the summer in recovery mode just to do it all over again. I retired April/1/2005 and was moved in here less than a month later. Warm fresh air, no flat prairies and really fine people here. Even the dogs are friendlier and happier.
Do I like it here? You bet. I'd love to win a lottery so I could afford a house here. Cutom built with a honkin big garage for toys. Toys may not include another bike though. I lost interest in riding but bikes still hold my attention big time.

Good Lord, 60 winters there! You deserve to live in the tropics after that!
The biggest reason I still live here is the family; 4 kids, 4 grandkids.
But still, I am more tempted every year to move to better climes.
I enjoy the difference of the seasons, but the unpredictability of the place drives me crazy.
A couple days ago, it was in the 60's and sunny, then a couple days in the 20's,
now it's raining 24/7. But, like where you live, the people are great.
Makes you wonder though; I've run into great people all over this country,
so is it really that the people are great or is it folks like you and me
that just get along with most of them? :) Maybe it is both.
And as far as riding goes, I will ride until I physically can't, and even then
will find it hard to stop.

[chandlerbingfl]

Ok I know this is old news but I still haven't been able to get the valves adjusted. I'm trying to put the cash together to have a mobile mechanic over to do this for me. I don't have the correct feeler gauges and I've read so much about what could happen if this is not done properly.

Anyway I was told by someone who does work on bikes and is a mobile mechanic that there is a point where ALL valves are in a closed position. He went on to say that this is the point where he checks the valves to make sure they are within spec or adjusts them accordingly. He said he then runs the motor for a few minutes, places the engine in a state where the valves are in this "closed" position and either adjusts or verifies they are adjusted to spec.....

Does this sound feasible??? I just don't want to have someone else screw up my bike....if someone is going to do that let it be me...

TIA,
chandlerbingfl

[blaine]

Yes.This is the way I adjust my valves all the time & my Kawasaki has eight.If the nose of the cam is pointing 180 degrees away from the stem of the valve,the valve is completely closed & can be adjusted.This method removes all the confusion of timing & timing marks.BUT the engine must be over night cold to adjust the valves.He is way off base to suggest starting the engine.You rotate the engine a couple of turns & recheck before closing everything up.
:) :cool:

[Water Warrior 2]

First time I've heard of adjusting valves with a warm engine. The engine must be cold. Find another mechanic.

[5th_bike]

Well quick update....nothing has worked. I tried WD-40, PB Blaster, the coin, the spark plug gapper and it will not budge....

Any ideas?!?!?!?!?!

Thanks!
chandlerbingfl
I have not been able to get that cap off, but I know a special tool exists for it. I put the bike on blocks, in 5th gear and then rotate the rear wheel until I see the mark [please check the manual in case you don't know what mark I'm talking about]. Be careful that it insn't in the wrong spot, it's only right once every two turns of the crankshaft.

[blaine]

Well quick update....nothing has worked. I tried WD-40, PB Blaster, the coin, the spark plug gapper and it will not budge....

Any ideas?!?!?!?!?!

Thanks!
chandlerbingfl
I have not been able to get that cap off, but I know a special tool exists for it. I put the bike on blocks, in 5th gear and then rotate the rear wheel until I see the mark [please check the manual in case you don't know what mark I'm talking about]. Be careful that it insn't in the wrong spot, it's only right once every two turns of the crankshaft.

As long as your sure that the valves are closed (lobes 180 degrees away from the stem) you can adjust.No need for the timing marks.
:) :cool:

[Sundowner750]

First time I've heard of adjusting valves with a warm engine. The engine must be cold. Find another mechanic.


Quite True!!!. My mechanic who taught me how to do it, showed me in this order:

1) adjust closed intake valves to spec, hand rotate the engine till all intake valves are adjusted.
2) repeat the above with the exhaust valves,
3) rotate engine and check all valves again.
4) replace all covers, replace carbs and the rest of the fuel system
5) sync carbs (if your bike has more than one carb.)
6) start bike andcheck for vacuum and other leaks, adjust as nessasary

the above method was taught to me on a 16valve 4 carb Suzuki GSX-F model bike

[Water Warrior 2]

Good method. Did he say to remove the plugs to ease the engine rotation? I am assuming you just forgot to write it in.

[Sundowner750]

nope not all. We never pulled a single plug out of the engine to do it. all we removed was the carbs, tank, air cleaner, Valve cover (and of Course Forward Plastics) and the right side cover where the ignition advancer was and used that to rotate the engine

My only real gripe with the GZ (and is a personal preference) that the bike lacks a Center stand for making this job a lot easier to do.

I did see the make them yourself stand here on the site, but coming from the world of sportbikes, I would use a race stand myself.

[jonathan180iq]

Several members have toyed with the idea of converting the center stand from a similar bike to the Gz, but I don't think that any of them ever came to fruition. The closest thing I have seen as a workable center stand was from a long time ago and it was one of our European members. they had basically used a universal, long-handeled bike stand and would just prop it under the front frame. I don't remember the clearances with the exhaust, but it seemed to work in the couple of photos that I saw.

[Water Warrior 2]

I wonder if anyone has a bike lift from Harbor Freight. They are similar if not identical to the one I have and it is a pretty good bang for the buck. Up here in the GWN they are available at Canadian Tire. Didn't have it with the GZ but it will fit under the M-50 very well and is rated for more weight than any bike should ever weigh.
A center stand is a must on a bike in my opinion. It will make a big difference in all things concerning maintenance and adding farkles.
A one off custom stand is easy to make at home if you have a welder or a buddy who welds. All it takes is a few feet of tubing and a few minutes of measuring. You only want to make it high enough to lift the rear wheel of the floor an inch or two. Uh , maybe two inches to make rear tire removal easier when the time comes.

[Water Warrior 2]

Hope this helps for a DIY stand. Square tubing and a welder. The stand is slid under the bike under the frame. When the handle is pulled back and down the bike is lifted up. The handle must be positioned/welded on the stand to allow the stand to overcenter and come to rest with the handle on the floor.
You will have to do careful measuring for the bike. I had mine made up for a dirt bike with at least 2 times the ground clearance so my numbers won't work on a GZ. The frame of the stand must be wide enough for the handle to clear the foot pegs etc when you pull the handle down. This was really slick for maintenance and very portable when we took our dirt bike on a trailer to the Rocky Mountains for a few days. The stand would effortlessly lift a 250 lb bike. The GZ would be even easier due to less clearance and different measurements.

[mrlmd1]

Much easier just to use a 2' piece of 2x8 or 2x10 with a piece of pipe through a hole in it and lever it up on that.
There has to be a small block of 2x4 or something under the frame of the bike so the bike is supported on the frame and not on the exhaust pipe/muffler if I remember correctly about the GZ. You can't just put a lift under it, the pipe is the lowest point underneath the bike and you don't want the weight resting on that.
While we're on the subject of bike lifts, here's some other ideas-

Another way to lift it, if you have one, is to put a small scissor jack under the frame and use that and the kickstand to get either the front or the rear wheel off the ground depending on where you locate the jack, making sure the bike is balanced and supported well so it won't fall over. I did that with my S50, picking it up a few in. to be able to remove and replace the battery from underneath the bike.
There is also on here somewhere (haven't searched for it yet) a couple of posts of a foldable or collapsible support rod that slides under the right rear axle nut and using that as a pivot in combination with the side stand, can get the rear wheel off the ground. Very cheap, easy to use, and effective for cleaning the chain or working on and rotating the rear wheel.
I also have a cable/strap boat lift underneath my house and have put a rope through the back wheel and one through the front around the triple tree and have picked up the bike to a comfortable height to change the oil and filter, but that's cheating altho very effective.
Ingenuity is great, and where there's a will, there's a way.

[Water Warrior 2]

Oh yeah, forgot about the board and pipe method. Gotta be the cheapest and easiest too.