Trouble Finding Neutral

[FoxMcCarther]

Hello folks,

The problem is not with me actually finding neutral, however the bike realizing it is in neutral.

About 4 out of ever 5 times I put it into neutral the light does not come on and when I put the kickstand down it triggers the safety stop.

Any idea what could be causing this and how I can fix it?

Thanks!

[Rookie Rider]

Welcome to the forum. For me its a pain in the ass with neutral on this bike. I always have it in gear at a light, but at long lights that i know are long, i will put it in neutral, then all the sudden the bike jerks and stalls, and i look and feel like an idiot. At least you know your safety switch works with the stand. If you put your bike in gear with the stand still down it will shut the bike off. Make sure the light is nice and bright when in neutral.

[Water Warrior 2]

Is this your 1st bike?? If so I think you need to educate your foot control to the shifter. More saddle time and practice in a parking lot will be a good thing.

[Rookie Rider]

You have to play with your foot to find neutral between 1st and 2nd gear when at a stop.

[alantf]

Easiest way on the GZ is 1st to neutral, not 2nd to neutral. I've had my GZ for over 5 years now, & there's still occasions where neutral just won't go. Every time I try to get it, it slips past it, to 2nd. Then next time I want neutral, it goes in first time. :)

[mrlmd1]

Neutral on most bikes feels like a half step between gears rather than a whole strep. You have to learn the feel of it, just a little tap upwards from first, or you will miss it and go into second. Just takes a little time and experience with the bike - it's normal behavior and takes getting used to, and practice, practice, practice.

[FoxMcCarther]

Thanks for the replys folks, I think I described my problem wrong.

It's not that I can't put it in to neutral (I think), That is easy enough, the problem is the bike (while it is indeed in neutral, and when I release the clutch does not stall or move forward) does not light up the neutral indicator and disengage the safety on the stand every time. When riding around, this is not so much a problem, however I have been practicing some "maneuvering" (as I am indeed a new rider), and have been hopping off my bike frequently to adjust the course or make a mark on the ground. It is just a pain (and probably not good for it) to have to keep starting every 5 minutes.

Or am I mis-interpreting the comments here and not going properly into neutral? Am I not in neutral even though when I release the clutch it does not move forward or stall?

Thanks for the help guys, was surprised by the number of responses!

[raul10141964]

looks lake a problem with the neutral safety switch inside the transmission

[bpdchief]

That took a long time. I'm no mechanic and I caught what he meant is his first post. YES I'm a cranky old bastard this morning

[alantf]

About 4 out of ever 5 times I put it into neutral the light does not come on

This would appear to be, quite simply, that it's NOT in neutral! :) Like someone just said, neutral is ½ a click up from first. Practice, practice, practice. If everything is fine, the times the light comes on, that means you're in neutral. If the problem only occurs when the light's not lit, it means you're not in neutral. The light will come on when you're in neutral. If it's not lit you're not in neutral, so the cut outs are working like they should. :)

[Skunkhome]

I have not had any problem finding neutral on other bikes but it seems on the gz I only find neutral when I don't want to, like up shifting from 1st. I can find it easily when the engine is not running but is very tricky while it is running. At long lights I often just shut the engine off especially with the 90+ degree temps we have been having...it's easier on the bike as well as me.

[clonak]

but it seems on the gz I only find neutral when I don't want to, like up shifting from 1st.


Sounds like my old A100. Could never find neutral, ever, unless I was riding, in situations where you _do not_ want to it happen. bloody old pig, I miss her.


when I first got the GZ, I had the same problem, dont know what it was, but a bit of fiddling around with the leaver and it would work. Havent had the problem for awhile, its getting into first from neutral now, gotta roll it sometimes.

If the light doesnt come up at first, try putting it back into gear, then back to neutral, or roll the bike with clutch in and out.

[Skunkhome]

If I have a panic stop and did not manage to get the bike into 1st before the bike comes to a stop I often can't get her into 1st without either releasing the clutch a touch or just shutting her down and restarting. I think I probably have warped clutch plates related to the PO riding it with too much slack in the clutch cable.

[Water Warrior 2]

If I have a panic stop and did not manage to get the bike into 1st before the bike comes to a stop I often can't get her into 1st without either releasing the clutch a touch or just shutting her down and restarting. I think I probably have warped clutch plates related to the PO riding it with too much slack in the clutch cable.
Releasing the clutch a touch is a common occurance on many bikes. I very much doubt a slack clutch cable would warp the plates.
Next time the tranny hangs up you might try rolling backwards using your right foot as you press down on the shifter. Sometimes just a few inches will do the trick...............................Oh crap, no I won't rephrase that.

[mrlmd1]

It's very common having a hard time getting into first from a stop at neutral on many bikes and there's nothing wrong with the bike. Pull in the clutch, roll it forward or backwards a few inches and try it again. Better to leave the bike in first gear when you stop at say a light or stop sign, so you're ready to go, esp. in an emergency where you may have to move or pull out quickly and not trying to find first gear. You will get to know your bike with more riding time. Don't start looking for exotic causes which don't exist.

[Rookie Rider]

My gz is easier to find "N" from second, but i always try from 1st first. It always kicks into 2nd no matter how easy i do it, then i just lightly tap down on shifter and usually find "N" right away.

[Water Warrior 2]

When did the bike have it's last oil change? Fresh oil may make it shift easier when you are hunting for neutral. Also lube the joints for the shifter. Squirt a little chain lube into the rubber covers for the joints. The bike probably needs some TLC to make it happy again.

[Skunkhome]

If the clutch cable is too loose the clutch never fully disengages. That is by no means exotic. Regardless this is by far the hardest bike to find neutral and 1st I've ever ridden. The longer I ride on any given day the harder it gets. I know what I have to do to get her into 1st and neutral but it's stubbornness makes it less than enjoyable to ride in heavy city traffic on an obsolete road system that is in the process of being upgraded to be only 30 years behind the times.

[mrlmd1]

If the clutch didn't fully disengage with the clutch handle pulled all the way in, you wouldn't be able to sit still in 1st gear stopped, so I doubt that's the issue. The bike would be trying to move forward or stall.

[Water Warrior 2]

If the clutch didn't fully disengage with the clutch handle pulled all the way in, you wouldn't be able to sit still in 1st gear stopped, so I doubt that's the issue. The bike would be trying to move forward or stall.
It is possible the clutch is dragging just enough to put pressure on the shift drum mechanism and hindering it's movement when the bike is stationary.

[mrlmd1]

Anything's possible, but it's more likely a human than a mechanical problem. Neutral is sometimes hard to find, in many bikes. I have the same problem with my Yamaha TW200, it's tricky to find, just a real light touch on the shift lever, and the GZ's no different, just takes some getting used to and knowing your bike. You can try and adjust the clutch cable, but if that doesn't seem to solve or improve the problem, I would work on the footwork before taking the clutch apart looking for something.

[Skunkhome]

If the clutch didn't fully disengage with the clutch handle pulled all the way in, you wouldn't be able to sit still in 1st gear stopped, so I doubt that's the issue. The bike would be trying to move forward or stall.
When I got the bike I could feel it creeping in 1st with the clutch lever fully depressed. With the engine off I could feel it dragging when I tried to push it. There was about one inch of free play at the lever end which I adjusted out.

Anything's possible, but it's more likely a human than a mechanical problem. Neutral is sometimes hard to find, in many bikes. I have the same problem with my Yamaha TW200, it's tricky to find, just a real light touch on the shift lever, and the GZ's no different, just takes some getting used to and knowing your bike. You can try and adjust the clutch cable, but if that doesn't seem to solve or improve the problem, I would work on the footwork before taking the clutch apart looking for something.

I adjusted the clutch cable shortly after taking possession of the bike eliminating the creep and improving the shifting. Now it shifts fine as frogs hair when the engine is "cool" but the symptoms start appearing as the bike heats up and gets progressively worse as the bike gets hotter.,

[mrlmd1]

Some bikes. like the Kawasaki Ninja 250 I had, develop "sticky" clutch plates, especially with long periods of non use. When you hit the starter button, even with the clutch pulled all the way in, and/or, the bike in neutral, the bike would lurch forward as if started in gear.The clutch plates are "stuck" together from the thin film of oil between them, and it has to be broken loose by rolling the bike back and forth a few times. Then it works perfectly fine and shifts like butter.
I know, that's a different problem, just thought I'd mention it.
As WW asked, when was the last time the oil was changed and do you know what's in there? How many miles are on your bike?
What symptoms get progressively worse as the bike heats up - shifting between gears, clutch dragging in neutral?

[Skunkhome]

Some bikes. like the Kawasaki Ninja 250 I had, develop "sticky" clutch plates, especially with long periods of non use. When you hit the starter button, even with the clutch pulled all the way in, and/or, the bike in neutral, the bike would lurch forward as if started in gear.The clutch plates are "stuck" together from the thin film of oil between them, and it has to be broken loose by rolling the bike back and forth a few times. Then it works perfectly fine and shifts like butter.
I know, that's a different problem, just thought I'd mention it.
As WW asked, when was the last time the oil was changed and do you know what's in there? How many miles are on your bike?
What symptoms get progressively worse as the bike heats up - shifting between gears, clutch dragging in neutral?
Oh I have experienced that as well but have not give it much notice. Some how I missed ww's question . Have 4900 miles on bike, changed oil about 500 miles ago. Used 10w40 Valvoline 4 stroke motorcycle oil (Dino) API SF/SG/SJ.
I am toying with the idea of changing again soon and putting in synthetic as I have read here somewhere that it improves the shifting and improvement remains even after returning to Dino oil.
The symptoms are that the bike is increasingly more difficult to shift into 1st with the engine running after the bike is fully warmed up. I downshift as much as I can using engine braking when I anticipate stops but often there is so much going on that I mis-count the down shifts or don't get the chance to down shift while the bike is moving. I always try to check to see if I am in 1st by attempting to down shift sitting still or if i have room by letting out on the clutch to see if it wants to stall. At any rate if I determine that I an not in first I find it virtually impossible to down shift unless I I slip the clutch a bit while trying or shut off the engine and recranking after shifting. More than once I have had to roll the bike over onto neutral ground to allow traffic to move past me as I sort it out. The extreme has been that at times I have found my self in third unable to downshift into 2nd or first. Not being able to get her into neutral is a minor inconvenience.

[Water Warrior 2]

If you do go with a synthetic oil you might want to try Rotella synthetic. It is reasonably cheap and works quite well. Both of our bike have Rotella dino and the shifting is spot on with no hang ups. Rotella will resist breaking down in a Kenworth engine so a GZ will likely like it. Rotella is motorcycle certified in case you are wondering.

[Skunkhome]

Rotella is 15w40?

[Water Warrior 2]

Rotella is 15w40?
Yup, good old Rotella 15W40 dino. I actually had Amsoil in the Vstrom synthetic for half it's life but switched over to Rotella. It is far cheaper and the bike seems to thrive on it. The bike has never exhibited any symptoms of oil break down either. Rotella in the Ranger V-6 as well although the rest of the running gear has Amsoil. I do believe Amsoil is the best product on the market but Rotella just works too well in a bike not to use it.

[GZ250]

simply put: GZ is a jerk in case of going to neutral

[Rookie Rider]

And popping out of neutral.

[Skunkhome]

Never had her pop out of neutral but enters easiest by toeing up from 1st.

[dentheman]

If you do go with a synthetic oil you might want to try Rotella synthetic. It is reasonably cheap and works quite well. Both of our bike have Rotella dino and the shifting is spot on with no hang ups. Rotella will resist breaking down in a Kenworth engine so a GZ will likely like it. Rotella is motorcycle certified in case you are wondering.I just changed to synthetic 5W40 in my Shadow in an attempt to help shifting into first. Often when I have ridden for a while at highway speeds on warm days (so the engine/oil is HOT) she will not go into first. I will press the shifter down and the neutral light will come on, and when I take pressure off the shifter the neutral light goes off, and she has remained in second. This happens whether the bike is moving or at a standstill, rolling the bike does not help. The synthetic didn't help.

What DOES work is to slightly let the clutch out while pressing the shifter down; then she easily pops into first. Just my bike, I guess they all have their idiosyncrasies. Or maybe it was designed that way to reduce the chance of inadvertantly shifting into first and overspeeding the engine or losing traction when downshifting.

I know I have strayed from the OP, but I did want to give my experience using both dino and synthetic when it comes to shifting. There is no difference that I can tell for my bike.