Insane, growing, electrical problem

[OldNTired]

Hello, all. This is my first post, so if I get something wrong please let me know.
I have a 2006 GZ250. At the end of last year it 'looked' like I had a battery problem. Since it was the end of the riding season I didn't get serious about it, all I did was test the battery, and test to see if it was charging. After 1/2 hour of riding it measured 11.75 volts at rest. BUT, when I tested it while the engine was running, the voltage jumped all over the place! The highest 'charging' voltage was about 11 volts, the lowest was about 6.5. The worst part was that I got the lowest voltage at higher RPM's. It finally warmed up enough today to try to check it out. I thought at first that it must be the rectifier. I can not get consistent readings on the rectifier tests using a diode tester. I tried two different meters! Checked out the stator, etc, it looks fine from what I can see (checked OHMS).
No, there were no loose, corroded, burnt, or pinched wires, anywhere that I looked.
But, here is the worst part! I figured I'd put it all back together to make sure nothing got damaged from sitting around. Then, just for laughs I thought I'd test the charge while it was running, just to make sure. But, I got nothing when I turned the key: no lights, no horn, no T signals, no starter, not even a neutral light, nothing!
From reading every post I could find having anything to do with the rectifier, I did see that some folks have had problems with the wiring inside the headlight bucket. I will check that out soon. But, would anything in there cause the erratic charging?
I am at a loss here, any help will be welcome. And thanks in advance. I would add a 'confused' smiley here, but can't figure out how to do it!

[Road_Clam]

Couple questions, when you're checking output voltage was your engine at idle ? You should always bring the engine rpm's up to about 4000 rpm's then take a voltage reading. You need to be about 14.5V . Also when you check a freshly charged battery you need to be about 12.4 v. All your #'s seem to be low . As for your system just dying and no power anywhere, you could just have a bad ground. Bad grounds are a very common problem to electrical gremlins.

[OldNTired]

Couple questions, when you're checking output voltage was your engine at idle ? You should always bring the engine rpm's up to about 4000 rpm's then take a voltage reading. You need to be about 14.5V . Also when you check a freshly charged battery you need to be about 12.4 v. All your #'s seem to be low . As for your system just dying and no power anywhere, you could just have a bad ground. Bad grounds are a very common problem to electrical gremlins.

Thanks for the reply. I thought I answered this though, maybe I wasn't very clear. And, I forgot to mention that over most of the winter I kept the battery on a tender.
Anyway, I did test it at high RPM's, I could have written it clearer, but I did say that the voltage was lower at higher RPM's. At idle it was about 11 to 11.5V, at about 4000RPM it drops to about 6.5V.
The battery was at 12.8 off of the tender. I know it needs to be 13.5 to 14.5V when charging, that's half of my problem and the reason I was checking out the rectifier.
You might very well have an idea with that question about a ground, but wouldn't that have drained the battery while it was sitting? I don't know. It stayed at about 12.6 all winter, I put it on the tender when the temps got really low around here. It is in a garage, but not a heated one.
Any ideas where I might look for a short? I've trid eveywhere but in the headlight bucket.

[Water Warrior 2]

First things first. Make sure the battery post are clean and connections are tight. Also check for a frayed wire in the headlight while looking in there as a bit of vibration can do ugly things to wires and connectors.
I don't think this will help but I once had a rectifier give up on a 750 Suzuki. The system would only charge at high RPM. This is the way it was explained to me by a tech who fixed it. The low end/circuit was shot. Sounds like your's is doing the opposite. Maybe the high end of the rectifier is not working.

[OldNTired]

First things first. Make sure the battery post are clean and connections are tight. Also check for a frayed wire in the headlight while looking in there as a bit of vibration can do ugly things to wires and connectors.
I don't think this will help but I once had a rectifier give up on a 750 Suzuki. The system would only charge at high RPM. This is the way it was explained to me by a tech who fixed it. The low end/circuit was shot. Sounds like your's is doing the opposite. Maybe the high end of the rectifier is not working.


Thanks.
Yep, the battery posts are clean and connected well.
And, like you said, every time I've seen a voltage regulator or rectifier go bad it only worked at very high RPM. I guess I'm just lucky.
Seems like everything, and everyone, keeps going back to the headlight for the 'no power' problem.
That will be the next thing I check. Might not have time tomorrow, or even the next day, but will get to it as soon as I can.
I guess I should add some things I didn't before. All fuses were checked, all connections (not counting inside the headlight bucket) were checked.
Kickstand switch was checked.

[Water Warrior 2]

Looks like a process of elimination to find the problem. Carry on and good hunting.

[OldNTired]

Looks like a process of elimination to find the problem. Carry on and good hunting.


Yeah, thanks. I was hoping that someone had the same, or very similar, problem of the charging voltage dropping as the RPM's went up. You are right, without a real clue the 'no power' problem will just be trial-and-error until I find it. It might take a while, one thing I don't believe in is replacing parts just to see if it helps without knowing that they are bad. :??: It's gonna be a long week.

[Water Warrior 2]

Looks like a process of elimination to find the problem. Carry on and good hunting.


Yeah, thanks. I was hoping that someone had the same, or very similar, problem of the charging voltage dropping as the RPM's went up. You are right, without a real clue the 'no power' problem will just be trial-and-error until I find it. It might take a while, one thing I don't believe in is replacing parts just to see if it helps without knowing that they are bad. :??: It's gonna be a long week.
Dealers just love the trial and error routine. You get to make their house payment for them.

[Road_Clam]

Couple questions, when you're checking output voltage was your engine at idle ? You should always bring the engine rpm's up to about 4000 rpm's then take a voltage reading. You need to be about 14.5V . Also when you check a freshly charged battery you need to be about 12.4 v. All your #'s seem to be low . As for your system just dying and no power anywhere, you could just have a bad ground. Bad grounds are a very common problem to electrical gremlins.

Thanks for the reply. I thought I answered this though, maybe I wasn't very clear. And, I forgot to mention that over most of the winter I kept the battery on a tender.
Anyway, I did test it at high RPM's, I could have written it clearer, but I did say that the voltage was lower at higher RPM's. At idle it was about 11 to 11.5V, at about 4000RPM it drops to about 6.5V.
The battery was at 12.8 off of the tender. I know it needs to be 13.5 to 14.5V when charging, that's half of my problem and the reason I was checking out the rectifier.
You might very well have an idea with that question about a ground, but wouldn't that have drained the battery while it was sitting? I don't know. It stayed at about 12.6 all winter, I put it on the tender when the temps got really low around here. It is in a garage, but not a heated one.
Any ideas where I might look for a short? I've trid eveywhere but in the headlight bucket.

OK, now i'm thinking you have a bad "phase" in your stator output. d/l the factory service manual and go to section 6-8 and do the ohm, and "no load" tests for your stator. If your stator checks out then the only component left to be faulty is your R/R .

[alantf]

From your description of the fault, it's possible that there's a problem with the silicon control rectifiers, which control the charging voltage.[attachment=1:1naghzuo]img042.jpg[/attachment:1naghzuo][attachment=0:1naghzuo]img036.jpg[/attachment:1naghzuo]

[mrlmd1]

I'm going to take a different path here and say the problem may be with your battery. If it measured 11.75V at rest, after a 1/2 hr. of riding or not, it is dead. LIke, almost ZERO charge.
A fully charged battery should read 12.6-12.8V, not 12.4. And if you measure the voltage right after taking it off the charger, you are reading a "surface charge" which is inaccurate. The battery must sit at least 1/2 -1 hr. to let this dissipate and then you will get an accurate reading of it's voltage. And if you let it sit 24-48hrs, it should maintain that voltage.
I would check your battery's resting voltage again after you remove it from the bike or disconnect it. Then charge it completely, and then get it load tested.
It may have a bad cell causing your charging voltage to go all over the place.

I would also hook up anther good battery, even an auto battery, to the bike via jumper cables (being careful not to short anything out against the frame or each other) and measure your charging voltage again at slow and fast rpms to see what your system is putting out, before you start digging into it.

If your battery checks out good with a load test and holds it's charge, then the problem is elsewhere. Likewise for the voltage check when you hook up a good battery and run the bike.

[OldNTired]

Looks like a process of elimination to find the problem. Carry on and good hunting.

Thanks, it will be a grind unless I get lucky.

[OldNTired]

[quote="Road_Clam":1b7q71br]Couple questions, when you're checking output voltage was your engine at idle ? You should always bring the engine rpm's up to about 4000 rpm's then take a voltage reading. You need to be about 14.5V . Also when you check a freshly charged battery you need to be about 12.4 v. All your #'s seem to be low . As for your system just dying and no power anywhere, you could just have a bad ground. Bad grounds are a very common problem to electrical gremlins.

Thanks for the reply. I thought I answered this though, maybe I wasn't very clear. And, I forgot to mention that over most of the winter I kept the battery on a tender.
Anyway, I did test it at high RPM's, I could have written it clearer, but I did say that the voltage was lower at higher RPM's. At idle it was about 11 to 11.5V, at about 4000RPM it drops to about 6.5V.
The battery was at 12.8 off of the tender. I know it needs to be 13.5 to 14.5V when charging, that's half of my problem and the reason I was checking out the rectifier.
You might very well have an idea with that question about a ground, but wouldn't that have drained the battery while it was sitting? I don't know. It stayed at about 12.6 all winter, I put it on the tender when the temps got really low around here. It is in a garage, but not a heated one.
Any ideas where I might look for a short? I've trid eveywhere but in the headlight bucket.

OK, now i'm thinking you have a bad "phase" in your stator output. d/l the factory service manual and go to section 6-8 and do the ohm, and "no load" tests for your stator. If your stator checks out then the only component left to be faulty is your R/R .[/quote:1b7q71br]

As I wrote in my first post, I did do the OHM tests on the stator. The results looked good.
As for the 'no load' test, well, that'll have to wait until I get power and can test with it running.
One thing I am not sure of though: on the 'no load' tests, I know that I should test for 60V AC, but how do I do that? Do I need a ground, or do I check between pins from the stator?

[OldNTired]

From your description of the fault, it's possible that there's a problem with the silicon control rectifiers, which control the charging voltage.[attachment=1:30kpbjeu]img042.jpg[/attachment:30kpbjeu][attachment=0:30kpbjeu]img036.jpg[/attachment:30kpbjeu]

Sure seems that way, what threw me off, and still does, is that all the info says 'overcharge' when they talk about a R/R problem - and I have the opposite problem, too low of a charge!

[OldNTired]

I'm going to take a different path here and say the problem may be with your battery. If it measured 11.75V at rest, after a 1/2 hr. of riding or not, it is dead. LIke, almost ZERO charge.
A fully charged battery should read 12.6-12.8V, not 12.4. And if you measure the voltage right after taking it off the charger, you are reading a "surface charge" which is inaccurate. The battery must sit at least 1/2 -1 hr. to let this dissipate and then you will get an accurate reading of it's voltage. And if you let it sit 24-48hrs, it should maintain that voltage.
I would check your battery's resting voltage again after you remove it from the bike or disconnect it. Then charge it completely, and then get it load tested.
It may have a bad cell causing your charging voltage to go all over the place.

I would also hook up anther good battery, even an auto battery, to the bike via jumper cables (being careful not to short anything out against the frame or each other) and measure your charging voltage again at slow and fast rpms to see what your system is putting out, before you start digging into it.

If your battery checks out good with a load test and holds it's charge, then the problem is elsewhere. Likewise for the voltage check when you hook up a good battery and run the bike.


My fault, I worded that part a little strangely.
After riding, the voltage was low. After charging, the battery stayed at 12.6 to 12.7, even after sitting for months! I didn't put it on the battery tender until the end of December when the temps got really low here.
I like your idea of testing with another battery, though. If the bike battery does have a problem of some kind, that would show it up. But, like the static test on the stator, that'll have to wait until I fix the power problem so I can get it running.

[Road_Clam]

One thing I am not sure of though: on the 'no load' tests, I know that I should test for 60V AC, but how do I do that? Do I need a ground, or do I check between pins from the stator?

You jump each stator phase wire. So one tester lead to one phase wire, and the other test lead to another phase wire. You end up doing 3 pairs of tests.

[OldNTired]

One thing I am not sure of though: on the 'no load' tests, I know that I should test for 60V AC, but how do I do that? Do I need a ground, or do I check between pins from the stator?

You jump each stator phase wire. So one tester lead to one phase wire, and the other test lead to another phase wire. You end up doing 3 pairs of tests.


Thank you. Sounds easy enough to do, once I get the power issue solved so I can get the bike started.
I'll be tied up all day tomorrow, but after that I'll have a few days to focus on this.

[Road_Clam]

One thing I am not sure of though: on the 'no load' tests, I know that I should test for 60V AC, but how do I do that? Do I need a ground, or do I check between pins from the stator?

You jump each stator phase wire. So one tester lead to one phase wire, and the other test lead to another phase wire. You end up doing 3 pairs of tests.


Thank you. Sounds easy enough to do, once I get the power issue solved so I can get the bike started.
I'll be tied up all day tomorrow, but after that I'll have a few days to focus on this.

Remember my #1 tip is test the simple things FIRST. Then work your way through by process of elimination. People tend to wildy guess off on too far of a tangent when it comes to certain issues, and they end up spending way more money replacing non-faulty components when they should have done some flow chart type systematic testing, and found the issue correctly. At least you are asking the correct questions, and you will figure it out. Electrical gremlins can be a real frustrating PIA to diagnose.

I had an intermittent stalling and ill running issue and would occasionally. blow a main fuse with my GPz a few years back. It all of a sudden appeared in the spring (ran fine the prior to winter storage). I was thinking a bad connection with respect to ignition/spark. It took me a month of time consuming disassemble to finally find the problem. friggin MICE had chewed a small portion of my fuel injection wiring harness, i didn't see the damage until I removed the tail section and pulled the wires away from the plastic inner fender. Several wires were chewed right to metal and shorting out ! I was so pissed ! Now I am on a mission with mouse traps !! But as an example you can see how frustrating electrical problems can be, especially "ghost" electrical issues than are intermittent.

[alantf]

Now I am on a mission with mouse traps !!

When I got a mouse problem in my workshop, my traps never caught anything. Then, a friend introduced me to something MUCH better. They're sheets of cardboard, about 6" square, smeared with the strongest glue I've ever known. Once the mice touch them, there's no way they're getting free. I even caught two on one board, one day. :2tup:

[mrlmd1]

The benefit of that compared to poison bait is that you know where they are, instead of going to some hidden place to die and then having to track down the smell to find them.

[OldNTired]

Hello, all. This is my first post, so if I get something wrong please let me know.
I have a 2006 GZ250. At the end of last year it 'looked' like I had a battery problem. Since it was the end of the riding season I didn't get serious about it, all I did was test the battery, and test to see if it was charging. After 1/2 hour of riding it measured 11.75 volts at rest. BUT, when I tested it while the engine was running, the voltage jumped all over the place! The highest 'charging' voltage was about 11 volts, the lowest was about 6.5. The worst part was that I got the lowest voltage at higher RPM's. It finally warmed up enough today to try to check it out. I thought at first that it must be the rectifier. I can not get consistent readings on the rectifier tests using a diode tester. I tried two different meters! Checked out the stator, etc, it looks fine from what I can see (checked OHMS).
No, there were no loose, corroded, burnt, or pinched wires, anywhere that I looked.
But, here is the worst part! I figured I'd put it all back together to make sure nothing got damaged from sitting around. Then, just for laughs I thought I'd test the charge while it was running, just to make sure. But, I got nothing when I turned the key: no lights, no horn, no T signals, no starter, not even a neutral light, nothing!
From reading every post I could find having anything to do with the rectifier, I did see that some folks have had problems with the wiring inside the headlight bucket. I will check that out soon. But, would anything in there cause the erratic charging?
I am at a loss here, any help will be welcome. And thanks in advance. I would add a 'confused' smiley here, but can't figure out how to do it!\


Just an update here. I had time to spend a few hours on it today.
First, I recked everything that I had already tried. Battery had been on the tender, and measured 12.9V. Nothing had changed (big surprise), and I did not find any problems.
Then I dug into the headlight bucket. I was really hoping that something would show itself, but I found nothing wrong. No loose or unconnected wires, no burned/shorted wires, no corrosion. I double-checked every wire to see if insulation had worn off somewhere, but no luck. For lack of any better ideas, I started checking every ground that I could reach - all were good.
Then, not sure why, I tried to check voltage to the fuse box. Negative lead of meter to negative of battery, positive to fuse socket. NO voltage. I don't know about the circuits enough to know if that is expected or not. Can any let me know? Thanks. I am not the best at reading schematics these days.
About then the thought entered my mind that the easiest fix might be the firm and repetitive application of a sledge hammer. I decided it would be better to take a break and have some dinner. I have no idea what to do next.

[alantf]

It is just possible that the problem is on the return (ground) path, so my next step would be to disconnect the battery, then use the ohm scale of your meter to see if there is an open circuit between the cable lug that goes to the battery +ve & the fuse terminal. :2tup:

[Road_Clam]

Hello, all. This is my first post, so if I get something wrong please let me know.
I have a 2006 GZ250. At the end of last year it 'looked' like I had a battery problem. Since it was the end of the riding season I didn't get serious about it, all I did was test the battery, and test to see if it was charging. After 1/2 hour of riding it measured 11.75 volts at rest. BUT, when I tested it while the engine was running, the voltage jumped all over the place! The highest 'charging' voltage was about 11 volts, the lowest was about 6.5. The worst part was that I got the lowest voltage at higher RPM's. It finally warmed up enough today to try to check it out. I thought at first that it must be the rectifier. I can not get consistent readings on the rectifier tests using a diode tester. I tried two different meters! Checked out the stator, etc, it looks fine from what I can see (checked OHMS).
No, there were no loose, corroded, burnt, or pinched wires, anywhere that I looked.
But, here is the worst part! I figured I'd put it all back together to make sure nothing got damaged from sitting around. Then, just for laughs I thought I'd test the charge while it was running, just to make sure. But, I got nothing when I turned the key: no lights, no horn, no T signals, no starter, not even a neutral light, nothing!
From reading every post I could find having anything to do with the rectifier, I did see that some folks have had problems with the wiring inside the headlight bucket. I will check that out soon. But, would anything in there cause the erratic charging?
I am at a loss here, any help will be welcome. And thanks in advance. I would add a 'confused' smiley here, but can't figure out how to do it!\


Just an update here. I had time to spend a few hours on it today.
First, I recked everything that I had already tried. Battery had been on the tender, and measured 12.9V. Nothing had changed (big surprise), and I did not find any problems.
Then I dug into the headlight bucket. I was really hoping that something would show itself, but I found nothing wrong. No loose or unconnected wires, no burned/shorted wires, no corrosion. I double-checked every wire to see if insulation had worn off somewhere, but no luck. For lack of any better ideas, I started checking every ground that I could reach - all were good.
Then, not sure why, I tried to check voltage to the fuse box. Negative lead of meter to negative of battery, positive to fuse socket. NO voltage. I don't know about the circuits enough to know if that is expected or not. Can any let me know? Thanks. I am not the best at reading schematics these days.
About then the thought entered my mind that the easiest fix might be the firm and repetitive application of a sledge hammer. I decided it would be better to take a break and have some dinner. I have no idea what to do next.

Looks like the GZ's use a main system fuse that recieves 12v directly from the battery located in the starter relay. This main fuse feeds the ignition switch, which when turned on then should feed the fuse box. I "think" the ignition needs to be "on" for voltage to be present at the fuse box.

The starter relay will have 3 small wires (Y/B , B/W, R) a large black wire (that feeds the starter), and one large red (+ from battery). Find that starter relay fuse and check for voltage in and out.

[alantf]

Yes, I hadn't checked the wiring diagram before, but checking it now, I see that there is a 20A fuse between the battery & ignition switch, then a fuse between the ignition switch & side stand relay. Power then goes via the other safety switches to the starter relay.

[OldNTired]

It is just possible that the problem is on the return (ground) path, so my next step would be to disconnect the battery, then use the ohm scale of your meter to see if there is an open circuit between the cable lug that goes to the battery +ve & the fuse terminal. :2tup:


Good thought, but I did that yesterday. Thanks.

[OldNTired]

Hello, all. This is my first post, so if I get something wrong please let me know.
I have a 2006 GZ250. At the end of last year it 'looked' like I had a battery problem. Since it was the end of the riding season I didn't get serious about it, all I did was test the battery, and test to see if it was charging. After 1/2 hour of riding it measured 11.75 volts at rest. BUT, when I tested it while the engine was running, the voltage jumped all over the place! The highest 'charging' voltage was about 11 volts, the lowest was about 6.5. The worst part was that I got the lowest voltage at higher RPM's. It finally warmed up enough today to try to check it out. I thought at first that it must be the rectifier. I can not get consistent readings on the rectifier tests using a diode tester. I tried two different meters! Checked out the stator, etc, it looks fine from what I can see (checked OHMS).
No, there were no loose, corroded, burnt, or pinched wires, anywhere that I looked.
But, here is the worst part! I figured I'd put it all back together to make sure nothing got damaged from sitting around. Then, just for laughs I thought I'd test the charge while it was running, just to make sure. But, I got nothing when I turned the key: no lights, no horn, no T signals, no starter, not even a neutral light, nothing!
From reading every post I could find having anything to do with the rectifier, I did see that some folks have had problems with the wiring inside the headlight bucket. I will check that out soon. But, would anything in there cause the erratic charging?
I am at a loss here, any help will be welcome. And thanks in advance. I would add a 'confused' smiley here, but can't figure out how to do it!\


Just an update here. I had time to spend a few hours on it today.
First, I recked everything that I had already tried. Battery had been on the tender, and measured 12.9V. Nothing had changed (big surprise), and I did not find any problems.
Then I dug into the headlight bucket. I was really hoping that something would show itself, but I found nothing wrong. No loose or unconnected wires, no burned/shorted wires, no corrosion. I double-checked every wire to see if insulation had worn off somewhere, but no luck. For lack of any better ideas, I started checking every ground that I could reach - all were good.
Then, not sure why, I tried to check voltage to the fuse box. Negative lead of meter to negative of battery, positive to fuse socket. NO voltage. I don't know about the circuits enough to know if that is expected or not. Can any let me know? Thanks. I am not the best at reading schematics these days.
About then the thought entered my mind that the easiest fix might be the firm and repetitive application of a sledge hammer. I decided it would be better to take a break and have some dinner. I have no idea what to do next.

Looks like the GZ's use a main system fuse that recieves 12v directly from the battery located in the starter relay. This main fuse feeds the ignition switch, which when turned on then should feed the fuse box. I "think" the ignition needs to be "on" for voltage to be present at the fuse box.

The starter relay will have 3 small wires (Y/B , B/W, R) a large black wire (that feeds the starter), and one large red (+ from battery). Find that starter relay fuse and check for voltage in and out.


And you, my friend, win the prize! I took the cover off of the solenoid (you made it easy to find), and there were TWO 20 Amp fuses! One was fine, the other was blown. Replaced the blown one, and that took care of the power problem.
Then, I started the engine. Just for laughs I checked the R/R output: at idle it put out as high as 12.0V, at 3000RPM it only put out 9. Next I checked the stator output; 65+VAC! Then, I took the battery to the local Advance store and had it checked: it was declred to be fine - not bad for a 6 yr old battery.
So, all considered, it seems that the R/R is bad. Must be, everything else is good!


And now I'd like to thank you all, you guys have been fantastic and a lot of help to someone who is truly old and tired. And to be honest, I am not 'west of hell', I am west of Pgh., Pa. Halfway between Pgh. and Weirton, W.Va. If any of you ever pass this way, let me know and the beer is on me. Thanks again. posting.php?mode=quote&f=7&p=61399# (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&f=7&p=61399#)

[OldNTired]

Yes, I hadn't checked the wiring diagram before, but checking it now, I see that there is a 20A fuse between the battery & ignition switch, then a fuse between the ignition switch & side stand relay. Power then goes via the other safety switches to the starter relay.

Yep, two of you agree, and you are both right. Thanks, that solved the problem with 'no power'!

[Road_Clam]

And you, my friend, win the prize! I took the cover off of the solenoid (you made it easy to find), and there were TWO 20 Amp fuses! One was fine, the other was blown. Replaced the blown one, and that took care of the power problem.
Then, I started the engine. Just for laughs I checked the R/R output: at idle it put out as high as 12.0V, at 3000RPM it only put out 9. Next I checked the stator output; 65+VAC! Then, I took the battery to the local Advance store and had it checked: it was declred to be fine - not bad for a 6 yr old battery.
So, all considered, it seems that the R/R is bad. Must be, everything else is good!


And now I'd like to thank you all, you guys have been fantastic and a lot of help to someone who is truly old and tired. And to be honest, I am not 'west of hell', I am west of Pgh., Pa. Halfway between Pgh. and Weirton, W.Va. If any of you ever pass this way, let me know and the beer is on me. Thanks again. posting.php?mode=quote&f=7&p=61399# (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&f=7&p=61399#)

Glad to help, and you saved yourself a few bucks, and got your feet wet with m/c electrical diagnostic skill as well ! Good job.

[OldNTired]

And you, my friend, win the prize! I took the cover off of the solenoid (you made it easy to find), and there were TWO 20 Amp fuses! One was fine, the other was blown. Replaced the blown one, and that took care of the power problem.
Then, I started the engine. Just for laughs I checked the R/R output: at idle it put out as high as 12.0V, at 3000RPM it only put out 9. Next I checked the stator output; 65+VAC! Then, I took the battery to the local Advance store and had it checked: it was declred to be fine - not bad for a 6 yr old battery.
So, all considered, it seems that the R/R is bad. Must be, everything else is good!


And now I'd like to thank you all, you guys have been fantastic and a lot of help to someone who is truly old and tired. And to be honest, I am not 'west of hell', I am west of Pgh., Pa. Halfway between Pgh. and Weirton, W.Va. If any of you ever pass this way, let me know and the beer is on me. Thanks again. posting.php?mode=quote&f=7&p=61399# (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&f=7&p=61399#)

Glad to help, and you saved yourself a few bucks, and got your feet wet with m/c electrical diagnostic skill as well ! Good job.

None the less, I couldn't have done it without the help from this forum. I've never belonged to one before, but I'm glad I joined this one. I'll be contributing as much as I can in the future. I really do know a few things, but this one had me stumped. See ya all down the road.

[mrlmd1]

Have you taken any time investigating why that fuse blew in the first place? No abraded wires/intermittent short anywhere in the wiring? Or are you just going to carry around a supply of extra 20 amp fuses? You may have discovered why the bike had no power but you have not solved your problem.

[OldNTired]

Have you taken any time investigating why that fuse blew in the first place? No abraded wires/intermittent short anywhere in the wiring? Or are you just going to carry around a supply of extra 20 amp fuses? You may have discovered why the bike had no power but you have not solved your problem.

Of course I found it, I'm not THAT old and tired! At the time I was trying to find the reason why yhe battery wasn't charging, however, I was tired enough to do a current check while I was looking for a short. What happened was I forgot my meter I was using can only handle 10Amps, and we all know that the bike uses a 'bit' more than that. It let all the smoke out of that meter - luckily it was a cheap spare. But that short had to be what blew the fuse.
But, I always carry extra fuses with me, along with a set of tools.
Thanks for asking!

[mrlmd1]

Maybe I missed something here. Where was the short? Was a wire abraded and exposed somewhere?

[alantf]

Maybe I missed something here. Where was the short? Was a wire abraded and exposed somewhere?

Seems to me he was just testing when his meter blew up (because it couldn't handle the battery current), shorted the circuit out, & blew the fuse. There never was a fault.

[mrlmd1]

That leads back to my original question as to why the fuse blew. The reason for the problem was never found so it may happen again, and having a supply of fuses on hand will not solve the problem. So I wouldn't be that ecstatic about just finding and replacing a blown fuse.

[alantf]

I think you still don't grasp it !!!!!!! THERE NEVER WAS A FAULT. He was doing a routine test on a healthy circuit (although he didn't know, at the time, that it was healthy) He set his meter incorrectly. This caused the meter to explode and short circuit the healthy circuit. This,in turn, caused the fuse to do what it's supposed to do - BLOW. :cry:

[OldNTired]

I think you still don't grasp it !!!!!!! THERE NEVER WAS A FAULT. He was doing a routine test on a healthy circuit (although he didn't know, at the time, that it was healthy) He set his meter incorrectly. This caused the meter to explode and short circuit the healthy circuit. This,in turn, caused the fuse to do what it's supposed to do - BLOW. :cry:


Well said, alantf! Thanks for answering for me. That is exactly what happened. I was so tired at the time I forgot how much current I was playing with. Then when I went to try to start the bike to test the stator output I forgot what happened with the meter. It was a cheap meter that I keep in the car, and it didn't have a fuse.

[mrlmd1]

OK, i reread the whole thread and he blew the fuse by having excess current going through his meter.
So what was the solution to the original problem of erratic voltage measurements as presented in the original post?

[OldNTired]

OK, i reread the whole thread and he blew the fuse by having excess current going through his meter.
So what was the solution to the original problem of erratic voltage measurements as presented in the original post?

Well, as was said about 10 posts ago, my first guess was right: The rectifier was bad.

[blaine]

OK, i reread the whole thread and he blew the fuse by having excess current going through his meter.
So what was the solution to the original problem of erratic voltage measurements as presented in the original post?

Well, as was said about 10 posts ago, my first guess was right: The rectifier was bad.

Quote:Just for laughs I checked the R/R output: at idle it put out as high as 12.0V, at 3000RPM it only put out 9. Next I checked the stator output; 65+VAC! Then, I took the battery to the local Advance store and had it checked: it was declred to be fine - not bad for a 6 yr old battery.
So, all considered, it seems that the R/R is bad. Must be, everything else is good!
:) :cool:

[OldNTired]

OK, i reread the whole thread and he blew the fuse by having excess current going through his meter.
So what was the solution to the original problem of erratic voltage measurements as presented in the original post?

Well, as was said about 10 posts ago, my first guess was right: The rectifier was bad.

Quote:Just for laughs I checked the R/R output: at idle it put out as high as 12.0V, at 3000RPM it only put out 9. Next I checked the stator output; 65+VAC! Then, I took the battery to the local Advance store and had it checked: it was declred to be fine - not bad for a 6 yr old battery.
So, all considered, it seems that the R/R is bad. Must be, everything else is good!
:) :cool:


\

Not sure what happened here! I posted this yesterday, but it didn't show up. Hmmm.
Anyway, I got the part in the mail yesterday, installed it, and started riding. When tested, the new R/R was putting out 13.8V at about 3000RPM. Things are good.
Thanks again to all who helped.

[Water Warrior 2]

Glad to hear you are on the road again. Ride Safe.

[OldNTired]

Glad to hear you are on the road again. Ride Safe.

Thanks again, Water Warrior.
Just spent the weekend with my son, rebuilding the front end of his old BMW. Gonna rest a couple of days (getting old sucks!) , then hit the road when the temps go up again on Wednesday.

[Water Warrior 2]

Glad to hear you are on the road again. Ride Safe.

Getting old sucks
I hear ya. Old age is not for wimps.

[Road_Clam]

[quote="Water Warrior":c7iuyg7h]Glad to hear you are on the road again. Ride Safe.

Getting old sucks
I hear ya. Old age is not for wimps.[/quote:c7iuyg7h]

I have an 18 year old right wrist, and 80 year old hips, back , and knees. :cry:

[Water Warrior 2]

Watch out for that wrist, they aren't very smart at that age. :lol:

[PimpS]

:)

[OldNTired]

I have an 18 year old right wrist, and 80 year old hips, back , and knees. :cry:



I won't even ask how ya wore out that wrist!
They wanted to fuse a few vertabrae together, but I told them no.
One of the dangers was that I wouldn't be able to talk.
So, I have a bit of pain, but at least I can complain about it!

[Road_Clam]

I have an 18 year old right wrist, and 80 year old hips, back , and knees. :cry:

I won't even ask how ya wore out that wrist!
They wanted to fuse a few vertabrae together, but I told them no.
One of the dangers was that I wouldn't be able to talk.
So, I have a bit of pain, but at least I can complain about it![/quote]

Getting my first of 2 needed hip replacements this fall. No more skiing , and no more motocross. But I still can street ride and snowmobile so i'm ok and not going to commit suicide.. LOL :2tup:

[mrlmd1]

The only problem you may have is swinging your leg over the seat to get on - you may need a lower bike if you have that problem.
I have a friend who's actually maybe an inch taller than me who has had both hips replaced, and he can't swing his leg over the saddle on my S50 which is about the height of the GZ. Too bad for him.

[OldNTired]

I have an 18 year old right wrist, and 80 year old hips, back , and knees. :cry:

I won't even ask how ya wore out that wrist!
They wanted to fuse a few vertabrae together, but I told them no.
One of the dangers was that I wouldn't be able to talk.
So, I have a bit of pain, but at least I can complain about it![/quote:cedlja0m]

Getting my first of 2 needed hip replacements this fall. No more skiing , and no more motocross. But I still can street ride and snowmobile so i'm ok and not going to commit suicide.. LOL :2tup:

That's the attitude! If you stop moving, you die, or at least you might as well.
It's 90% willpower, just never give up.

[mrgz250]

unplug the stator leads & ch that the leads mesure the same on all 3hree than ck one lead at a time with ground my bike did the same thing had to rep the stator than every work very well