Change Your Oil

[jonathan180iq]

Here's what you'll need:

17mm socket
10mm socket
Oil pan
10W-40 Oil ( I suggest synthetic, but that's up to you.)
New oil filter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


This is a very simple process.

Crank your bike and let it run for a few minutes.

First, put your bike on some jack stands, if you have them. This isn't an absolute must, but you're pretty much guaranteed to drain all of the oil with the bike flat, as opposed to leaning over on the kick stand.

http://upload2.postimage.org/432602/DSCN6463.jpg (http://upload2.postimage.org/432602/photo_hosting.html)

Next, you'll unscrew the oil filler cap.

http://upload2.postimage.org/432607/DSCN8631.jpg (http://upload2.postimage.org/432607/photo_hosting.html)

Now, slide your oil pan under the bike and unscrew the oil-drain bolt with your 17mm socket. You might want a 2-3" socket extension.

[attachment=0:21su1psy]Pq4jTbmr-f600ac863c36cc241c239cbe0e5a44ae.jpg[/attachment:21su1psy]

Once all of the oil drains out of the bike, go ahead and slide over to the oil filter cover and unscrew the 3 bolts using your 10mm socket. You'll want to turn out all three screws at the same time. Don't do one and then go on to another. There is a spring back there keeping pressure on cover and you need to turn one bolt a little, turn the other one, and so forth until they are all off. Oil will come dripping off of the filter and run down the side of your engine. So, you might want to have some shop towels around for clean-up. When you put the new filter back on, make sure it goes in the same way the old one came out.

http://upload2.postimage.org/432624/DSCN8627.jpg (http://upload2.postimage.org/432624/photo_hosting.html)

Once the new filter is installed, bolt the cover back on and re-install the oil drain bolt. You then need to fill the bike with 1.5 quarts of your favorite oil. If you are not changing the filter, I believe you only need to use 1.4 quarts. It is EXTREMELY important that you refill the bike with oil. Do not forget it. I know it sounds silly, but it happens. People forget.

Once the oil settles in, reinstall the oil filler cap and crank 'er up. After a few minutes, take the bike for a ride and make sure everything works out.

*To properly check oil level in your bike, the bike needs to be standing up straight; not leaned over on the side stand. Checking oil level while the bike is on the side stand will result in overfilling the bike.

**Please be aware that some motor oils include friction modifiers which can cause clutch slippage in certain situations. The GZ250 seems very prone to this. To see if your oil of choice contains friction modifiers, check the API starburst on the back. If it says "Energy Conserving" or "Resource Conserving", the please look for a different brand or weight of oil. You want an oil that does not contain friction modifiers.

Enjoy,
Jonathan

[Badbob]

Good job Johnathan.

[Stretch]

I appreciate it -- will let you know out it turned out!

The shop I went to didn't have Mobile 1 10W40, the only full synth oil at that weight was Syntec from Castrol. Hopefully that will work just as well.

-Bob

[jonathan180iq]

I'm currently running Castrol Syntec. I love it.

[Gadzooks Mike]

I get my Mobile1 for VTwins at WalMart. Ours has a small motorcycle section.

[Stretch]

Jonathan,

Your directions were faultless! I had a break in the honey-do list today and went ahead and changed the oil without incident. The only difference I saw between my experience and your directions was that the o-ring holding the filter cover was slightly sticky, so the 10MM nuts were no problem. All I had to do was slightly wiggle the cover and off she came. Thanks for a fun 20 minutes and, finally, an excuse to use my jack stands I have been toting around the country for twenty years!

On my trial run I did notice a new and worrisome problem however. All the gears were fine (to be honest, I didn't notice too much of a noise difference in shifting but the engine sound was a slightly different and more even pitch) up to fifth. And there something strange happened: I could shift into the top gear without any problem, but about halfway through accelerating, the clutch would slip: at 60 MPH I could feel the engine wind up in response to my thottle inputs, but the speedo would stick rock steady at 60. If I backed off the throttle I would regain what I thought must be clutch grip and my throttle inputs would result in bike movement as before. This happened three times on the return leg of my four mile test run.

I checked the oil level and it is on the high side of the sight glass, but not over the top: when the bike is on the kickstand, the oil level disappears from the glass, and when I rock the bike into vertical, the level is right at the high notch (still space left on the sight glass above the oil level in other words). I used just slightly more than 1.5 QTS measuring from the not too accurate gauge on the side of the oil container - I may have overfilled it by a couple of tablespoons.

My question to anyone who cares to stick a toe in: WHY?

Have I: a) Overfilled the oil and the pressure of the high end of fifth gear somehow prevents the clutch from engaging fully, b) messed up that one gear by adding the Marvel Mystery Oil to my crankcase for a week (less than 100 miles of street travel), c) have an air bubble somewhere in the oil/clutch system that isn't releasing, d) did I somehow fry my clutch without realizing it, or e) none of the above?

Any and all assistance would be welcomed!
:sad: -Bob

[Dupo]

I dunno, but that marvel mystery oil might solve the mystery. Didnt know there was ever a need for additives in wet clutch type engines.

[Badbob]

What kind of oil did you use?

Most modern motor oils have friction modifiers that will make the oil very slippery and cause the issue you. I had the same problem, maybe worse, when Mobile1 changed their formula to one the had friction modifiers.

There is a discussion hear: Obsolete API Oil Ratings (http://www.gz250bike.com/viewtopic.php?t=170&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=synthetic)

I have only found one available locally that does not have these friction modifiers. Shell Rotella T This is what I use.

For some reason this does not seem to be a problem for everyone. It would not surprise me to find out that Suzuki uses clutch plates from more than one manufacturer and some are not affected.

[Stretch]

I read through your posting and it seems that you had the same result as I did first switching to a synthetic. I did check the bottle of the Syntec, it was SAE 10W40, API service SM/CF. When I checked some sites for an explanation of those codes, the best I could find is the higher the second number after the "S" (Spark), the better/slippier the oil. So, "M" is quite slippery. While it doesn't have a cleaning code that I could find, there are two one line blurbs in the marketing copy on the back label that it "reduces harmful deposit formation" and "An advanced additive package that neutralizes corrosive particles, preventing them from grouping together and forming power-robbing sludge."

You said that after switching to Shell Rotella T the slippage pretty much disappeared after two oil changes? Any update on that? My bike is a 1999, if that makes any difference.

-Bob

[Badbob]

You said that after switching to Shell Rotella T the slippage pretty much disappeared after two oil changes? Any update on that?

Update is here: Obsolete API Oil Ratings (http://www.gz250bike.com/viewtopic.php?t=170&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=synthetic)

[jonathan180iq]

I used this:


http://upload2.postimage.org/461044/DSCN8633.jpg (http://upload2.postimage.org/461044/photo_hosting.html)

And I have no slippage.

[Stretch]

I read that BadBob, what I was wondering was, if after the second and subsequent oil changes the slippage disappeared entirely or if you still get it occasionally as you stated in your earlier thread. In other words, is this something I will now have to live with, whether I change oils or not, or if this is temporary and it will go away as all the traces of this oil disappear.
-Bob

[Stretch]

Jonathan, my bottles look like that, but without the spash advertisement right below the brand name on the left side. On my bottles, that area is blank.

As BadBob mentioned, it is quite possible that Suzuki is using different manufacturers for the parts, especially as mine is an older bike. Perhaps mine reacts differently than yours.

I am just thinking that too much oil might to this too... I know too much oil can mess up seals from overpressure. Could such pressure act on a clutch plate at high revs I wonder? I am going to try to rig a little syphon and take out some of the oil to bring the level to the midpoint tonight, and then drive her to work tomorrow to see if there is any difference.

-Bob

[Badbob]

I read that BadBob, what I was wondering was, if after the second and subsequent oil changes the slippage disappeared entirely or if you still get it occasionally as you stated in your earlier thread. In other words, is this something I will now have to live with, whether I change oils or not, or if this is temporary and it will go away as all the traces of this oil disappear.
-Bob

You must not have read it since I posted the update.

I'm in the second oil change using Rotella T. I still get some clutch slippage occasionally. A little to much throttle and clutching to fast will do it almost every time. It might have done this before the problem occurred. The clutch slippage continues to be less with time.

Before the switch to Rotella T I could be riding along at 60 mph in 5th gear and when I started up a steep hill the clutch would slip until I down shifted. This no longer happens. My trip to Franklin GA and the ride around Cheaha state park convinced me that the problem is pretty much fixed.

[Badbob]

I am going to try to rig a little syphon and take out some of the oil to bring the level to the midpoint tonight, and then drive her to work tomorrow to see if there is any difference.

-Bob

Get a small plastic tube. Push it in all the way to the bottom of the crank case. Put your thumb over the end of the tube and pull it out. The oil in the tube will stay in the tube. Hold the tube over a container and remove thumb. The oil will run out. A straw will work but its slow.

Go to WalMart and buy a measuring cup graduated in milliliters. Use this to measure your oil next time. Don't put it in the kitchen or your dinner might taste funny.

The clutch just spins in the oil.

[Quimrider]

Good write up!
You might want to add something about that little rubber oring for the oil filter. The first time I changed my oil I almost didn't put the oring back in as it was stuck to the old filter.

[Stretch]

Well folks, I just got back from draining the excess oil from the bike. What I am now sharing may seem stupid, but hey, hopefully someone else may learn from my mistake.

As I mentioned earlier, I had checked the site glass after adding the 1.5 quarts of Syntec and it looked fine - right at the high mark. BUT, having gone back and looked again tonight, the site glass was completely filled when the bike was cold! I drained the excess until the oil level was 2/3rds of the way up between the low and high levels on the site glass. The excess? Would you believe 1.5 CUPS! Yikes!

Looking back over my oil change, I did three things wrong:
1) I was checking the level while the tail end of the bike was elevated about an inch on jackstands. Since the sight glass is toward the rear end of the housing, it is not surprising it was giving me a false low reading.
2) I blindly trusted the bottles and put what I thought was 1.5 quarts in.
3) I didn't do the math.
Next time I know to check the oil level after the bike is back to flat... I thought I had, but I must have had a senior moment.

Next time I will pour the oil into a measuring device before putting it in the engine. My "cager" days betrayed me: I am too used to just opening quarts and dumping them into the hole.

Next time I will believe my third grade teacher and realize that one day math may save my life. The engine cover is clearly marked "1300 ml" and since I was educated in the 1960's that means absolutely nothing to me - I spent my time learning "a pint is a pound the world around" instead. But luckily, now I have Excel. That mysterious and even-sounding "1300 ml" really means 1.37 quarts or five-and-a-half cups (5.496829 to be exact). Meaning that by adding a quart-and-a-half I was adding a half-cup too much. Since I have already admitted to having a heavy thumb on this, it was probabily closer to three-quarters-of-a-cup or more.

My cup-and-a-half error seems to be evenly split between poor technique (the one-inch rear elevation must throw the sight glass off about three-quarters-of-a-cup) and failure to follow directions. (Note: I did drain the engine completely - let it drip until nothing was coming out -- but again, if the oil pools forward of the drain plug, perhaps some of the old oil remained. The oil did slighty darken after I drove it the four-mile test run: don't know if that is from heat or old stuff mixing in... just being honest.)

So, tomorrow, on the way to work, I will ramp the old girl up to 60 in fifth and see if perhaps the slippage was due to overfilling the oil (if the symptoms go away) or if it is due to the oil itself (if the slip continues). I will let you folks know either way.

Sorry to be such a bonehead about all of this, but I am still learning. Thanks for the syphoning suggestions BadBob.
-Bob
:oops:

P.S., I did then crank her up, let her warm, and checked the oil level on flat ground. The level was about the same.

[Easy Rider]

Sorry to be such a bonehead about all of this, but I am still learning. Thanks for the syphoning suggestions BadBob.


I can't quite believe that after all these messages (in more than one thread apparently), nobody has suggested that you also check the clutch adjustment. If you haven't, you definitely should.

[Stretch]

Just got back in. The clutch slippage is worse, now occuring as low as third gear whenever I am going up a hill, popping the throttle or otherwise putting a heavy load on the system.

Easy Rider, I would be more than willing to check the clutch adjustment - I just don't know how. I will look over the site to see if I can find any advice on that - anything you care to share will be greatly appreciated.

As for me, back to work (this time in a cage) and off to buy some regular 10W40 oil. I will dump out the Syntec and see if dead dinosaur drippings work better than the erzatz stuff. Who would have thought that one day oil would be too slippery to be useful? Only in America!

:??:
-Bob

[Easy Rider]

Easy Rider, I would be more than willing to check the clutch adjustment - I just don't know how.

As for me, back to work (this time in a cage) and off to buy some regular 10W40 oil.

What year is your bike? You REALLY need an owner's manual. I think someone has posted a link somewhere on here to an online copy.

What I should have said is check the adjustment of the clutch CABLE, not the clutch itself.

There should be a tiny bit of free play in the clutch lever; that is, the lever should move just a tiny bit before you feel resistance from the clutch. The adjustment is at the lever end of the cable.....near to where the cable attaches to the lever.

For this to be visible, you may have to slide a rubber boot out of the way.

If there is NO free play in the lever, this can cause the clutch to slip because the tight cable may not be allowing it to engage fully. The adjustment should be somewhat obvious when you get the boot out of the way. If not let us know.

As for the oil, (probably too late now) you probably should get motorcycle specific oil.......since you are already having clutch slippage problems.

Here's hoping that the cable is too tight and adjusting it fixes the problem without changing oil. :tup:

[Stretch]

From your description, I believe that my clutch is adjusted properly. I can pull it in and the friction zone is between a third and two-thirds of the way to the grip. Everything was working fine (even with the slight bit of MMO I added in) until I put in the synthetic oil.

I am hoping the oil change will help.

I do have the manual, I printed it from here (luckily, it seems to be for a 1999 - my year!). I try to ask those that have done it first before hitting the book because the experienced folks normally know to add those little things (like hold onto the cover because it is spring-loaded) that are somehow forgotten by the service manual writer (or assumed to be common knowledge to the experienced mechanic reader, to be kind to manual writers).

Thanks again!
-Bob

[Water Warrior 2]

Hi Stretch, sounds like the crash course in Metric conversion is paying off. Just don't ever try to figure out how many liters of gas for every 100 kms travelled. That will cause serious brain damage. Metric, Imperial measure and U.S. measure are a bitch to convert without a decent conversion chart or smart calculator.
Really hate to hear you will dump the synthetic oil but it might serve to provide a good rinse to remove any other additives that could cause clutch slippage. Maybe check the bottom end of the clutch cable and assorted parts for anything hanging up or not fully releasing the clutch mechanism. Does the clutch cable itself have any serious bend in it to cause binding ?? Keep us informed.

[Badbob]

I try to ask those that have done it first before hitting the book because the experienced folks normally know to add those little things (like hold onto the cover because it is spring-loaded) that are somehow forgotten by the service manual writer (or assumed to be common knowledge to the experienced mechanic reader, to be kind to manual writers).

Unfortunately for us. Service manuals are written for experienced motorcycle mechanics. Seems to me it would be better to hit the book first and ask questions when you don't understand something.

[Easy Rider]

From your description, I belive that my clutch is adjusted properly. I can pull it in and the friction zone is between a third and two-thirds of the way to the grip.

I'm not trying to be snippy here but this is important.

I said nothing about friction zone. Friction zone is hard to gauge by feel. Slack is not.
It is the SLACK that is important. With everything released (IE you not touching anything) there MUST be slack in the cable/lever. You measure this by taking 2 fingers and LIGHTLY trying to move the clutch lever back and forth; it should move at least 5 MM, measured at the end of the lever, with virtually 0 force applied. Or to put it another way, when fully engaged, there should be some "slop" in the lever.

If the cable is too tight, the clutch will not engage fully and will slip.

Maybe you got that from the previous message but your response didn't really indicate that.

My guess: The high solvent content of the MMO has penetrated the clutch plates and made them soft. The slippage just happened to show up about the time you put in the synthetic oil. The damage may be permanent.

Let's hope not and that either a cable adjustment or new oil solves the problem. I would love to be wrong about that! :tup:

[Stretch]

Actually Easy Rider, after I read your last post and sort of quickly said "it is ok" (please remember I am brand new at motorcycling - I have had my bike only a couple of months and put barely 1000 miles on her - so I will be asking/saying stupid things now and again in order to learn), I went to the general books I have on motorcycle maintenance and they alll agreed with you that clutch cables could be the problem. But they didn't mention how to check it as you did (which is why I ask and read BadBob). So, let me go into the garage and check. BRB

Ok, I took a ruler with me and held it on the grip with the wheel straight ahead and, using one finger, I could gently move the clutch level 5mm before I felt strong tension... but that being said, it wasn't free and easy movement for that 5mm, there was a bit of stiffness, not as much as after the 5mm, but it didn't feel like what I could consider "slack." I didn't see any obvious kinks or bends Water Warrior, so, I am wondering if, based on my reading, the clutch cable may need lubrication. That would be a relatively easy fix (at least based on what I saw in the manuals). I just need to go out later today and get the goodies to do it. So here is my plan:

1) Lube the clutch cable (it can't hurt and it might help).
2) Retest for clutch slack and, if necessary, adjust the cable tension (I am assuming the service manual will tell me how, I haven't had a chance to break that out as yet and the general manual was fairly vague about it).
3) Make a trial run to test for clutch slippage: if it is still there, go ahead and dump the Syntec and replace it with cheap no-frills/no-additives 10W40 from Pennzoil.
4) Make a second trial run for clutch slippage: if it is still there, assume the worst and start reading about clutch overhauls because at that point, my assumption would be that either I did damage the clutch or it simply decided to die right about the time I decided to try to change the oil.

Does this scheme make sense to those of you who are more experienced than I am at all of this? I am trying to move from cheap and easy fixes to the expensive and painful ones in a logical sequence.
-Bob

[Easy Rider]

it wasn't free and easy movement for that 5mm, there was a bit of stiffness, not as much as after the 5mm, but it didn't feel like what I could consider "slack."

1) Lube the clutch cable (it can't hurt and it might help).
2) Retest for clutch slack and, if necessary, adjust the cable tension (I am assuming the service manual will tell me how, I haven't had a chance to break that out as yet and the general manual was fairly vague about it).



Slack is slack. If it didn't feel like slack, then it isn't and needs to be adjusted. I would do that first BEFORE you try to lube the cable (which is NOT as easy as you might think).
And that 5 MM I suggested is BARE MINIMUM; the book says 10-15 MM.

What the owner's manual doesn't tell you is that the cable adjustment hardware is UNDER a rubber boot (at least on late models) which you must move first.

The instructions appear vague because the adjustment is really simple. No offense intended but if you can't figure this out, you had better find a mechanically inclined friend or a good shop. :roll:

[Badbob]

Slack = absolutely no tension on the cable

The clutch lever should move the first few millimeters without pulling on the cable at all. If you don't have this the clutch can't fully engage and it slips. The clutch plates are held together by spring tension. When you pull on the clutch lever it pulls the plates apart. I know thats not a real good description but I'm at a loss as how to explain it better without drawing pictures.

[Stretch]

Ok, I opened up the service manual and a maintenance book and took a look. (No offense taken Easy Rider -- I know what you mean and I agree.)

Initially the clutch handle moved through about 15 degrees of arc (5mm at the tip approximately) with slight resistance before hitting the "friction zone." When I took the rubber boot off, the tail end of the lever at the pivot point would seat itself against the arm (no space between the silver leading edge of the handle and the black trailing edge of the support just above the pivot).

When I adusted it to get 15MM of play the lever falls back and rests at the edge of the friction zone with a wide gap at the pivot point under the rubber boot. So, BadBob, I think I have it finally fully slack. There is no resistance at all, in fact, when I push the lower clutch lever (the one at the other end of the clutch cable that is on top of the engine housing) all the way to the right (which I believe is completely disengaged), it will slide back about 20 degrees to the resting position. So the clutch itself will push the clutch lever outward to some extent.

I just tried the bike and the friction zone is dramatically decreased. Where before I could engage the clutch with a couple fingers still resting between the lever and the handlebar, now the friction zone starts about an inch and a half from the bar and goes until full contact with the bar. Shifting is a bit quicker but not a subtle as before. I am still getting some slippage in 5th, but nothing I could detect in the lower gears. Traffic however held me up, so there is still a question mark on that. However, now I was at 63 MPH before the slippage and it was easier to handle than before with less playing around with the throttle.

I don't think that I adjusted it too tightly because when I hold the clutch fully in (lever against the grip), the bike doesn't creep forward.

My question is this... (and I haven't found it so far in the books I have looked at or the service manual): When at "rest" should the springs in the clutch hold that lower arm fully to the right (rearward) or is it ok to have it pull itself into a position about one-third of the way across its path of travel? I am wondering if my clutch is wearing out...

The syntec is still inside it and I haven't lubed the cable as yet.

I appreciate the help.
-Bob
:bow:

[Easy Rider]

I don't think that I adjusted it too tightly because when I hold the clutch fully in (lever against the grip), the bike doesn't creep forward.


Now you know what things feel like when the adjustment is at both extremes. 15 MM of slack is at one extreme. You probably should adjust once more and shoot for about half that. I find it much easier to gauge the adjustment by the gap near the pivot point, right there by the cable connection and the adjustment knobs. Once you know what that looks like when you have ~7-8MM of slack, you won't need a ruler next time.

Now, what next? I think you should just ride it for a while. With the clutch plates properly adjusted, the situation might improve a bit over time.......7-10 days. During that time, try not to stress it. If you TRY to slip the clutch, it will.......even on a new bike (this model).

Don't know about what is normal at the other end of that cable but will look later, if I remember.

[Stretch]

I did tweak the adustment a bit last night and then took her out for a longer spin and the performance was much better. I will take your advice and chill about it for a week or so. But while I was down there playing with the clutch cable, I noticed the chain was starting to get dirty, so I did a kerosene cleaning last night... and then I noticed the chain appears a bit too slack... started reading up on that. It doesn't appear too difficult... Ok, I can see why maintenance starts to get addictive and why these topics (at least whenever I join in) can wander from the original topic...
:roll:

I really appreciate all the help everyone gave me. This may have been a simple fix to a simple problem, but when it is your first time and you are by yourself, it seems like a big deal. For anyone reading this thread and actually interested in the oil change itself: for the record, the syntec is still in the bike and doing fine. The oil didn't appear to cause the troubles I had, it just brought them to light.

Enjoy the ride!
-Bob

[Badbob]

This may have been a simple fix to a simple problem, but when it is your first time and you are by yourself, it seems like a big deal.

Been there done that!

Keep in mind that motorcycles are more alike than they are different. You can sometimes find the solution to your problem in a forum for another motorcycle.

[Water Warrior 2]

Hey Stretch, glad to hear the learning curve is not giving you an ulcer. The more you tinker on the bike the easier it gets. Soon you will be hunting for tools for that special ocassion.

[Stretch]

So long as I can keep making it run better, sound better, or ride better... I am a happy camper. And if we throw in the excuse for new tools -- it is worth any frustration!
-Bob
;)

[Water Warrior 2]

Stretch you must still be young and full of enthusiasm.

[Stretch]

Young at heart perhaps, but 20 years of Naval service and another six or so years in front of college students has frayed most of my edges and dulled most of the sharp ends. Luckily, on the bike I am 12 again (unfortunately with the recovery time of an 80 year old -- but happily, memory is the first thing to go!).

:tongue:
-Bob

[Water Warrior 2]

Stretch, first off thank you for your years of service from the GWN. Second, feel 12 but don't act 12 or you won't have a license and you will have to send me your bike to ride while you grow up.
I am continually amazed how young we get when 2 wheels are involved. Just don't tell the government or they will cancel a lot of pensions.

[Stretch]

Even as a 12-year-old, I had a healthy respect for gravity, speed, and friction burns... so I guess you will have to wait a bit longer before you get my bike
;)
-Bob

[Stretch]

Well, I did get a chance to read up on the chain tightening and went out to check. My chain was so slack that I couldn't even get an accurate reading because it hit the frame when I lifted it and still wasn't tight! I tightened it up to the 1/2 inch specs and took it out for a spin. It is a whole new bike! The noise level is dramatically lower, the shifting is smoother (still slips in 5th when I upramp too quickly) and much more top end. I think my earlier problems with slow speed turns may have been aggravated by this loose chain/clutch and the resulting jerky acceleration and stopping. And here I was blaming my shifting technique (which can stll use some improvement)!

My real learning experience is in what to look for in when buying a used bike. I bought mine from the instructor/owner of the motorcycling training school I attended (actually bought it from the school itself, even though it was not a training bike). I relied on his "expertise" and assistance. After reading the wonderful posts here, I have found that (1) the handlebar weights were missing (replaced them), (2) the cracked tires "normal and no problem for a bike like this" need replacing (on order), (3) chain was dangerously loose, (4) the clutch wasn't adjusted properly, and his advice (5) "always rev the hell out of these bikes, they love it" wasn't very bright either. I am sure there are more learnings lurking in the bike...

I guess part of learning is unlearning. So far I have been able do it without the bike or I getting seriously hurt... I am going to try to keep it that way!

Thanks again for all of the help you folks gave me!
-Bob

[Water Warrior 2]

The joys of a used bike. I have no ability to find a used cage or bike that is good so I have always resorted to new and debt. I figure new and a warranty gives me a fighting chance if all the parts are in the right place.

[Badbob]

The joys of a used bike. I have no ability to find a used cage or bike that is good so I have always resorted to new and debt. I figure new and a warranty gives me a fighting chance if all the parts are in the right place.

What? You miss out on all those great adventures. Just think what you could learn from doing all those repairs yourself. :)

Some of the best things I ever owned were bought used. I glad someone is willing to pay for the shiny part.

[Water Warrior 2]

Some adventure is good but some are too costly. I have a history of paying some one else to fix my attempted fix which not cost effective in the long run. Although I have managed to install a lot of farkles in the last two years without needing help other than the forums and riders taking pity on me. This forum and Stromtroppers.com are a wealth of knowledge with many fine people.

[caroledee1]

The only vehicle I ever purchased new was my 86 Yamaha Radian 600. Man I loved that bike. When I had finally finished making all the payments my

step-daughter needed braces for her teeth. :sad: She does have a great smile now. :) I don't like being in debt so I only spend what I have saved up.

Bob, I too am glad someone else is willing to pay for the shiny part. LOL.

[badfun]

My first oil change. As you can see the oil was really dark. I was shocked when I held the bike straight up I could see a bit of oil in the window but it was hard to tell if it was low. as you can see in photo #2 the bike is on its stand and I can see the fresh oil. Judging by how much oil I added before I saw it in the window I would say I was .4 quarts low. I was unaware that I should be able to see the oil even when it was on it kick stand. I road aver 200 miles like that. It goes to show what a noob I still am when it comes to motorcycle maintenance. I will agree that it almost feels like I am riding a different bike, its' so much smoother now the clutch and the ride. Thanks you very much for this thread!

http://www.postimage.org/aVZHaO9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVZHaO9)

http://www.postimage.org/PqoJZ1J.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqoJZ1J)
:rawk:

[jonathan180iq]

From my experience you shouldn't see any oil in the sight-glass with the bike on the sidestand. That measurement is taken with the bike standing upright.

Good choice in oil. :)

Also, dark oil isn't necessarily a bad thing. You only need to be concered when it smells burned.
Keep the oil fresh and synthetic and you will enjoy your bike for a long time.

[Easy Rider]

I was unaware that I should be able to see the oil even when it was on it kick stand.

Ahem....

Where DID you get the idea that the sight glass meant anything when the bike is on the side-stand ??? :??:

It does NOT.

The sight glass is to be used ONLY when the bike is straight up, in the normal riding position. :oops:

Now you probably have about .3 qt. TOO MUCH in the bike.

The initial conditions you state: Bike straight up, oil barely visible in the bottom of the glass is really OK but on the verge of being low.......about .2 qt, not .4.

[badfun]

I don't see how, I measured the oil out exactly. As soon as I buy some more Camera batteries I'll take a snap shot of what was left in the 2nd oil can.

[Easy Rider]

I don't see how, I measured the oil out exactly. As soon as I buy some more Camera batteries I'll take a snap shot of what was left in the 2nd oil can.

Don't bother. It doesn't matter.

The only thing that matters is where the oil comes up to on the glass.......when the bike is upright.......and it has been sitting at least 30 minutes after being ridden.

The amount of old oil left in the bike can vary some, maybe as much as 6 ounces, depending upon your exact technique.

Left on side stand=more left in.
Parked slightly uphill=more left in.
Done too soon after riding=more left in.
Not letting it drain long enough=more left in.

The sight glass is the only thing that REALLY matters. :tup:

[Follow up]
Last week I changed the oil in 2 riding mowers and a tractor. All 3 took less than the amount listed in the manual. Both mowers (capacity <2 qts) needed a few ounces less. The tractor with a capacity of 6 quarts only took about 5.2.

[badfun]

rgr good tips thanks.

[jonathan180iq]

Not to toot my own horn but I think should be a sticky.

[JIBTEXHNKA]

Not to toot my own horn but I think should be a sticky.


then i'll toot it for you :2tup:


STICKY THIS!

[jonathan180iq]

Changed over to Mobil1 10-40 automotive high-mileage oil. This stuff claims to have anti-wear additives but does not contain any energy conserving additives.

After two days I can report no clutch slipping.

The Mobil1 only cost me $6.88 per quart at Autozone.

I also installed a K&N oil filter...
I'll agree with what Badbob has said before, except for being a little more pink than the Suzuki filters, they look exactly the same. Whether or not the filtering media does what K&N says it does is something that none of us can report on anyway.

[Easy Rider]

Changed over to Mobil1 10-40 automotive high-mileage oil. This stuff claims to have anti-wear additives but does not contain any energy conserving additives.


I think you should read up on "high-mileage" oils a bit more.
It is indeed good stuff for an OLD engine; cut the oil use about 1/2 in my old pickup truck
BUT........
One of the things it does is swell the valve guide seals more than "normal" to make up for wear there.
That would concern me in a "not-old" engine. I'd be afraid that it would make valve guide seals that are NOT worn much to tighten up and wear faster.

Disclaimer: I am NOT an automotive or oil engineer. This is my guess only (not even an opinion, really) and may be entirely wrong. Just a heads up.

[jonathan180iq]

I wouldn't have gotten the high mileage stuff but that's all that was available in 10-40 and I wanted to give Mobil1 a try. The Motorcycle specific Mobil1 was $10.98 per quart. What a crock...

Anyway, I know that the high-mileage stuff is supposed to condition seals and stuff but we're only talking about 3000 miles. So, I'm not too worried about possibly over conditioning them. I'll switch out oils next time to something different anyway.

So far, the Mobil1 feels is a little smoother while shifting than the Castrol Syntec that I was using but that's a very small difference. I'll probably stick with the cheaper stuff in the future.

This topic is pretty much dead. I'll leave it alone if it's not going to be added to the sticky list.

[JIBTEXHNKA]

easy, you may not be an engineer but you seem to know a lot more than i do... i recently put high-mileage oil in my camry because, well, it's got high mileage (249000 miles last i checked). but it doesn't leak/burn oil and everything runs great. in this case is it even worth it to use special oil? i usually don't.

actually, you are an engineer, aren't you? just not automotive.

[Easy Rider]

actually, you are an engineer, aren't you? just not automotive.

An Engineering Technician, actually. The phone company called me an Engineer but it wasn't really true! :roll:

I don't think the actual age or mileage is as important as how the engine is acting. Are you really saying that you have 240,000+ on the original engine AND you have no oil useage AT ALL??

If that's true, it is pretty remarkable and I certainly wouldn't use the high mileage oil.

At this point, however, there is a tricky call to make.
Since you put the H/M oil in there once, I'd be inclined to stay with it.
It probably won't make any difference what you do.

[JIBTEXHNKA]

Are you really saying that you have 240,000+ on the original engine AND you have no oil useage AT ALL??


i might have exaggerated a LITTLE bit.... i put in five quarts and drained 4 and 1/2 five months later (i don't do well with schedules). man, i love that car. i've put over 100,000 miles on it and the only problems i ever had were:
1. itty bitty vacuum leak because of a split hose (itty bitty leak, not itty bitty problem)
2. timing belt broke

not that this is a thread about cars or anything. and from what i can tell camrys don't really have any kind of following, but they should. or at least mine should.

[FreyGrimrod]

Great sticky but one more bump for suggesting an inclusion of something about the O-ring on the filter cap. Am I the only one obsessive enough to replace it and make sure its wet with a bit of fresh oil all the way around every time I change the oil? Of course I'm one of those saps who is willing to pay the extra $10 for motorcycle oil (yes its way to expensive but using so little of it) and the only possible difference would be its performance in direct metal on metal contact something one hopes never occurs between it and regular oil.

[jonathan180iq]

I just make sure the O-ring is seated properly and that's about it.

Just because, I emptied the high-mileage oil and swithed over to Castrol Syntec Blend. When the weather is warm, it performs equally with the Syntec synthetic. When it's cold, it acts like Dino oil. It was only $4.48 and is "formulated to protect against constant stop-n-go driving" and contains the same additives as the full synthetic. Performance is pretty good and this is a cheaper oil. Again, we'll see how it holds up.

[Orpheus]

Great sticky but one more bump for suggesting an inclusion of something about the O-ring on the filter cap. Am I the only one obsessive enough to replace it and make sure its wet with a bit of fresh oil all the way around every time I change the oil? Of course I'm one of those saps who is willing to pay the extra $10 for motorcycle oil (yes its way to expensive but using so little of it) and the only possible difference would be its performance in direct metal on metal contact something one hopes never occurs between it and regular oil.

I changed the o-ring at 5k (just because the previous owner had bought one and left it under the seat) and I'll probably change it again at 10k, but I don't think it's a big deal either way unless it's dried out or broken or something (but I could be wrong). And I always do the oil-around-the-gasket thing too, since that's the way my dad taught me to install the filter on a car. Not sure if that really matters, either.

[patrick_777]

And I always do the oil-around-the-gasket thing too, since that's the way my dad taught me to install the filter on a car.

Ditto here.

[finallyinthesaddle]

And I always do the oil-around-the-gasket thing too, since that's the way my dad taught me to install the filter on a car.

Ditto here.

My understanding is that the filter on a car, being screw-on, requires oil on it to ensure a smooth slide against the surface that it is tightening against. Being that this is held on with screws, and is merely pressed against a solid surface, that wouldn't be necessary.

[patrick_777]

I doubt it could hurt though. A better seal is still a better seal.

[finallyinthesaddle]

I doubt it could hurt though. A better seal is still a better seal.

If nothing else it may keep the rubber a little more flexible. :tup:

[alanmcorcoran]

Hey Jonathan,

I noticed in your photo at the top of this thread that you had what looked like "homemade" jackstands (or at least one of them) underneath the frame of the GZ. Look like they are made of pine or plywood. Can you post a close-up of the stand?

Dimensions, if you have them, woudl also be appreciated. Or if, there is a particular model of stands that works well for a GZ, I guess I could just buy a pair.

Since it appears that keeping the GZ level is an issue with oil changes, the height of the stands in that position seems important.

[Easy Rider]

Since it appears that keeping the GZ level is an issue with oil changes,


No really it ISN'T.
Everything works quite good leaned over on the side stand and the filter even drains better that way (but it still is MESSY when you open the cover).

Two exceptions: To get out the last couple of ounces, you need to tip it upright for a few seconds while draining AND then again to check the sight glass when you think it might be getting full.

[Water Warrior 2]

Great sticky but one more bump for suggesting an inclusion of something about the O-ring on the filter cap. Am I the only one obsessive enough to replace it and make sure its wet with a bit of fresh oil all the way around every time I change the oil? Of course I'm one of those saps who is willing to pay the extra $10 for motorcycle oil (yes its way to expensive but using so little of it) and the only possible difference would be its performance in direct metal on metal contact something one hopes never occurs between it and regular oil.

One of the great characteristics of a moto specific oil is greater shear strength. Oil shears when used in bike trannies. Amsoil M/C oil has the shear characteristics of a 90 weight gear oil. Don't know about the rest but they would be similar in my opinion if they are designed for bike trannies.

[music man]

A small piece of a 1"x4" under the kickstand is what i use to fill my bike back up with oil after an oil change, my bike sits almost perfectly level, just be careful, as it doesn't take much to knock it over at that point.

[Water Warrior 2]

A hockey puck also works well.

[jonathan180iq]

Hey Jonathan,

I noticed in your photo at the top of this thread that you had what looked like "homemade" jackstands (or at least one of them) underneath the frame of the GZ. Look like they are made of pine or plywood. Can you post a close-up of the stand?



I made the stands based on these instructions:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=62 (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=62)

They worked very well. I wish I had spent the extra dough and purchased treated wood. They began to weather after the first year. They're still very usable though.

[alantf]

Hey guys! Don't forget that when you're talking about quantities of oil (or any other liquid) the U.S. quantities are different to anywhere else in the world. i.e. an American gallon is different to an English gallon. Therefore if you mention quantities on this forum, don't forget that there may be people reading this from other parts of the world. For instance, when I do an oil change, it's 1400 ml of oil with a filter change, & 1300 ml of oil without the filter. If I used gallons or quarts it would be different to American gallons & quarts.

[music man]

Hey guys! Don't forget that when you're talking about quantities of oil (or any other liquid) the U.S. quantities are different to anywhere else in the world. i.e. an American gallon is different to an English gallon. Therefore if you mention quantities on this forum, don't forget that there may be people reading this from other parts of the world. For instance, when I do an oil change, it's 1400 ml of oil with a filter change, & 1300 ml of oil without the filter. If I used gallons or quarts it would be different to American gallons & quarts.


I would think since the majority of people on this site are American, that someone from another country should expect to have to make the necessary conversions on his/her own, just like I would expect to have to do if I were looking at a site that was based in Spain or any other country.


Later

[alanmcorcoran]

Hey Alan,

The guvmint tried to drag us kicking and screaming into the rest of the (metric) world through the seventies. We're not exactly cosmopolitan here in the States. They gave up on it eventually. Still have to buy regular and metric tools for everything and I don't think we'll give up the mile until they pry it from our bankrupt fingers.

We don't know from liters, meters or centigrade. And we're sticking with the steering wheel on the left and driving on the right. Rumor has it one of our recent VP candidates wasn't clear on the difference between continents and countries. And I didn't know what ocean your island was in.

[Water Warrior 2]

The answer is simple. Grab onto a metric conversion calculator. It will have metric, Imperial measure and U.S. measures. Cheap easy and I never(rarely) leave home without it if I am on a road trip. Also good for converting MPH to Km for travellers coming to the GWN.

[alanmcorcoran]

Does it display in English and French?

[Water Warrior 2]

Does it display in English and French?

Just English thankfully. lol. Although I do speak 3 languages. All English, Good, Bad and really profane.

[jonathan180iq]

I wished we had made the switch over to metric, but it's a pretty dead idea at this point.
We've killed astronauts because we didn't make the switch, but oh well....it's kind of a dead idea at this point
People are constantly confused about how to calculate and apply other's mileage numbers, but oh well....

For readers from the rest of the world, except Great Britain, the oil change capacities should be quite simple, as they are stamped onto the engine case right beside the oil fill cap. It says 1400ml. No questions there.

"I can see Russia from my house. It helps the people who are concerned about health care costs in the stock market where Valdimir Putin rears his ugly head. Mooses."

[plskthompson1]

Johnathon, thanks for the right up. I've had quite a few bikes, but this is the first small bike I've ever had. Before this, my smallest was a 750 and the mechanics were completely different. I've never had anything that used less than 2 U.S. quarts of oil in the engine, so I probably would have completely over filled it. I noticed mention of MMO a few times, but has anyone ever added any Lucas oil stabilizer to th crankcase? As far as the oil is concerened, I use Mobil 1 10w40 in my Gold Wing, and after adding a quart of Lucas to it, I have plenty left over for th oil change in the little GZ. Now, to find a filter supplier that opens before I get home from work in the mornings.

[alantf]

has anyone ever added any Lucas oil stabilizer to the crankcase?

IMO, I would be extremely wary of adding ANYTHING to the oil. You might find that the clutch plates don't like it. As they're running in the oil, any additives could cause them to slip. :cry:

[burkbuilds]

My cousin added Lucas to his motorcycle oil and his clutch started slipping, he stopped and after about four oil changes it is back to normal but he's lucky. Lucas is an anti-friction compound and although it may be great for your engine, it is bad for a wet clutch!

[zenbutcher]

Shouldn't we all be using a 10W40 rated SF or SG? I don't like to go against manufacturer recommendations when it comes to motor oil. The last time I changed my oil I got the exact Suzuki motorcycle oil recommended for my bike. I don't see why anyone would want to test other oils.

After a brief google, I found this: http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/oilreport.html. I think it's worth a read. Apparently, the SG rated oils had additional phosphorous and zinc, which the EPA didn't like because it made catalytic converters less efficient. Therefore, they came up with a new standard, "SM", which is lower in these two elements. When it comes to my bike, I care about what is effective in promoting engine longevity, not the EPA.

Here's another article that google turned up: http://www.bikenomads.com/wiki/index.php/Do_not_use_car_oil_in_bikes

Here's a small sample from the above link:

"Recap - Synthetic Oils

Recap - synth oils meant for cars when used in bike will cause clutch to slip because car synth oils have friction reducers which are not requried in wet clutch motorbikes. The oil in wet clutch motorbikes need the oil only as a coolant not a lubricant . The lubing is required for the engine and not the clutch in this case. Hence use only specially formulated motorbike syth oils and not mobil 1 etc in bikes. Synth oils are available for mobikes specifically - ex motul 300V. "

And, one more quote:

"Q: WHICH FOUR-STROKE RACING OIL SHOULD I USE?

A: If the bottle of oil doesn't list that it is an API SG Service Category or JASO MA spec, it's not good enough for your motocross bike. Although a bottle of oil might say "motorcycle specific" or "safe in wet clutches," the best endorsement is the API SG or JASO MA designation. It's better to be safe than sorry. "

Frankly, I don't see why you'd use anything other than what the manufacturer recommends: Suzuki 10W40 SF or SG rated oil.

[blaine]

I to use only suzuki aproved semi-sensetic.36000kms no problems.

[Water Warrior 2]

You can use a synthetic oil providing it is not an energy conserving oil. Many 10-40 oils fall into this group. Moto specific oil will have greater shear resistance for the tranny which is something many people forget about. Diesel oils work very well in bikes and are not energy conserving. Both of our bikes use Shell Rotella 15-40.

[patrick_777]

You can use a synthetic oil providing it is not an energy conserving oil. Many 10-40 oils fall into this group. Moto specific oil will have greater shear resistance for the tranny which is something many people forget about. Diesel oils work very well in bikes and are not energy conserving. Both of our bikes use Shell Rotella 15-40.


:plus1: Ditto on the Rotella full synthetic.

[burkbuilds]

The Rotella synthetic meets all the criteria for the motorcycle oil certification, they just haven't bothered with the expense of having it certified, I guess, if you think about it, the volume they sell this stuff in is so large that even if every motorcycle in the country used it it just wouldn't make much difference to them. My Ford diesel trucks used 4+ gallons (yes gallons) per oil change. (15 qt pan + 2 qt filter), and that's nothing compared to a big rig diesel!

All I've used in the last 20,000 miles is the Rotella synthetic in my motorcycles, good stuff and it's less than $20 a gallon at Wal-Mart.

For that matter, it's the only oil I've used in my cars and trucks for the last five years or so.

[Easy Rider]

Frankly, I don't see why you'd use anything other than what the manufacturer recommends: Suzuki 10W40 SF or SG rated oil.

Oh goody. Just what we need; yet ANOTHER oil thread !! :roll: :biggrin:

A LOT of riders do a LOT of things with their bikes that they would never think of doing with a car. Guys just need something to "tinker" with. While I understand it, I don't "agree" with a lot of it either.......but it's not my bike so none of my business.........with a couple of noteable exceptions that I will NOT elaborate on here. :whistle:

As for this subject, as long as you stay away from oils that are marked "energy conserving" and don't use any extra "additives"..........it really doesn't make any difference which high-quality oil you use.

[patrick_777]

Oh goody. Just what we need; yet ANOTHER oil thread !! :roll: :biggrin:


Technically, it's continuing a really old thread...which is just how it should happen.

[Water Warrior 2]

Shell has recently had their Rotella certified for motorcycle use. Read it here or another forum. About time.

[patrick_777]

Very likely, that'll just give retailers an excuse to raise the price a few bucks by moving it to the Motorcycle shelf.

[Maggie]

I am so excited...I did my own oil change for the very first time! I know that may be really lame-o for some of the really experienced toolers here, but I have to tell you, I have spent my life intimidated by tools and mechanical things. So thanks to Jonathan for the original post with great pics and all the others who chimed in fearlessly reporting their mistakes and adding more advice.

I was prepared with the right tools on hand, used Rotella oil (5/40 based on that engineer survey report), didn't freak out when some oil spewed out when the filter cover was removed (I even had a rag right there ready to catch the spillage), and made sure I had a measuring cup with metric units on it so I could put in exactly 1400 ml. I am proud to say not one drop of oil was spilled on the driveway and the bike has not blown up, nor have any bolts fallen off! Woohoo! :2tup:

Okay, so what's the next simple project I should try???

[blaine]

Cleaning & Lubing your chain is simple to do,and should be done every 1000kms. You will get great satisfaction doing your own serviceing. Good luck, Have fun!

[patrick_777]

I am so excited...I did my own oil change for the very first time!

Congratulations! It's not silly to the old "pros" because they started somewhere too.

Okay, so what's the next simple project I should try???

Go buy a Fiamm Freeway Blaster horn (http://www.fiammamerica.com/Product.asp?ProductID=156) from an auto parts store and change it out. It's easy and you'll appreciate it when you have to honk at somebody for being dumb.

[Easy Rider]

Go buy a Fiamm Freeway Blaster horn (http://www.fiammamerica.com/Product.asp?ProductID=156) from an auto parts store and change it out. It's easy and you'll appreciate it when you have to honk at somebody for being dumb.

Do you remember an approx. cost ?
Do you have the high or low note?
Did you do it without an added relay? I'd think 5 amps might be on the edge.

[mrlmd1]

Either that or a Stebel air horn which you can buy for ~$30, and Harbor Freight has the same horn under a different brand name. I have seen the Framm in an Autozone store for $20. They both draw about 15-20 amps so you have to wire a relay directly from the battery (with an inline fuse) and you switch on and off the relay (and air horn) with the old horn wires from the handlebar switch. The original wiring to the horn cannot handle the current needed to operate an air horn and may heat up and burn.
The air horn and relay are in the same package with all the instructions and it's pretty easy if you can read.

[mrlmd1]

If you want another project, to add to safety, get a headlight and a brakelight modulator. The installation is pretty simple for both, the instructions are very good, and don't require any special tools to buy.

[patrick_777]

This doesn't really help much, but...

[youtube:83mbotin]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TffMwFtHK6c[/youtube:83mbotin]

[jonathan180iq]

For what it's worth, it looks like the new oil standards, ILSAC GF-5 and API SN, seem to have some correlation with the lable change from "ENERGY CONSERVING" to "RESOURCE CONSERVING"

So, when buying new oil, avoid ones that say RESOURCE CONSERVING as well the energy stuff that you've been used to avoiding.

[Water Warrior 2]

Keep your eyes open for a sale on the old stuff.

[Rookie Rider]

Well, for the first time ever in my life i changed the oil/filter, the air filter, and i put those rubber bumper things under the gas tank but they didnt stop my tank from moving and banging into the frame. So i used some old drain ball stoppers from a commercial dishwasheing machine and cut them a bit bigger then normal and viola. Thanks to all of you i had the confidence to tackle these few things and succeed. Spark plug change tomorrow.

EDIT: Spark plug is changed and gapped.

[Kcarvajal]

I love this site.

I ran into the same issue as Stretch was decribing after changing my oil lastnight in preparation for my road trip, which I thought will be cancelled.

Turns out, i had a kinked clutch cable. After removing the tie, clutch felt good, gaining speed when fully opening the throttle was as it should.

Another issue I ran into and wish to share is the darn plug is EASY to strip. I learned this during the process. So DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN!!! I bought a 1/2 universal plug from Advanced Auto Parts and was able to plug it. Changed the oil again, which I am glad I did as there was a lot of metal shavings that came out from my plug error. Took her for a test ride and all appear intact.

Thanks to you guys and this site.
:2tup:

Ken

[geezer]

talking about your oil drain plug? from what it looks like the entire area around it is removeable and thus replaceable so im sure if you had to you could have replaced the area. dont over torque. nothing needs much torque on a motorcycle as far as the engine is concerned

[Suncross]

I am about to change my oil for the first time. Wish me luck. Wish my bike battery wasn't totally dead. I will try to take pictures at different parts to show yall how it goes.

Actually it just started raining /facepalm.

[geezer]

double face palm

[Suncross]

Ok, so I got out there and realized I have no way to straighten the bike. I don't have tools to make the cuts in those blocks that I don't own. Is there any way to get it up? I have a jack, but I have tried several places to lift it up. It wont stay on, and I dont wanna damage the chassis.

[geezer]

you dont need a jack to change the oil.

[Suncross]

Yeah I just popped the plug and stood on the bike to straigthen it. Was there for a while leaning all the way to the right and left to get it all but I did. I will give more details later. It seems to be smoking, but not out of the exhaust. I got oil all over the place like a noob when changing the filter. i will have pictures too

[Water Warrior 2]

You don't need to have the engine smoking hot to change oil. I have been just running the bikes long enough to warm the engine to a touch and call it good. If warm oil won't drain I need more than an oil change. lol.

[alantf]

you dont need a jack to change the oil.

No, but it's nice to have the bike level, especially when putting the new oil in. Even if it's just someone holding it upright for you. :2tup:

[mrlmd1]

You can put a piece of 2x4 under the kickstand to elevate the left side so it is level, and tie it off to something if you have no assistant so it doesn't dump over on the right side with no support.

[geezer]

yeah thats the easiers way to do it. after i let the bike drain on its kickstand ill tip it over the other way just so i can get every bit of old oil out.

[Water Warrior 2]

You can put a piece of 2x4 under the kickstand to elevate the left side so it is level, and tie it off to something if you have no assistant so it doesn't dump over on the right side with no support.
Been there done that. Thank goodness Lynda's bike has crash bars. No damage.

[Slagugglan]

I changed my oil some days ago: went like a charm!
I put in some 5W40 Auchan brand full synth diesel oil: silent, starts on first crank, neat. Perfect!
I had no wussy bikestand or 2x4s... I did it like the pros: I had a book, sat on the bike and read on till the dripping stopped ;)

P.S. It is a good idea to tilt the bike a bit now and then during the process to help all the old stuff out!

[alantf]

Auchan? Isn't that the home brand of Al Campo? If it is, I've never seen it on sale over here. :??:

[Slagugglan]

Don't know what the hell Al Campo is :) Auchan is a big french supermarket chain we have in Europe...

[alantf]

Don't know what the hell Al Campo is :) Auchan is a big french supermarket chain we have in Europe...

Sounds like it's the same chain, but over here the chain is known as "Al Campo", and their own brand is "Auchan", with a picture of a red bird on it. :)[attachment=0:2ckdx0jv]Picture 002.jpg[/attachment:2ckdx0jv]

[Slagugglan]

Yep :) That's it! Great oil BTW!

[alantf]

Yep :) That's it! Great oil BTW!

Have you tried their own brand "fuel additive"? €5 or €6 for 365ml. Around 75ml to a tank of fuel every 4000km keeps the carb clean. :2tup:

[minieggroll]

I'm having trouble finding the sight glass to check the oil level. Does anyone know where it is exactly and have a picture of it? Thanks in advance!

[Rookie Rider]

Bottom right, toward bottom of the bike.

[Rookie Rider]

Round window, size of a quarter.

[alantf]

see the red arrow.[attachment=0:tneen5o8]xxxx.JPG[/attachment:tneen5o8]

[PimpS]

Alan, didn't you have a gz with a dragbar? Or did i mismatch?

[minieggroll]

Alan, if I could hug you, I would :D lol thanks for everyone's help!

[alantf]

Excuse my ignorance, but what's a dragbar? Could be something I know by another name (not being American) :)

[PimpS]

I'm not an american too, so excuse me; by a drag bar i mean the thing thing that you use for going left or right on motorcycle. you hold it with your hands... ;) Didn't you post a pic of gz having a lower handle bar, i think it's called a dragbar, it is less u-shaped that a stock one...

[alantf]

Ah.....you mean the "handlebars" :) No, mine have always been the original ones.

[Carolina0219]

Fantastic guide. Just did my first oil change and was done in 15 minutes. Thanks!

[Water Warrior 2]

Was there ever any doubt ?? :2tup: :2tup:

[Thumperville]

hey i was just wondering about the oil weights in relation to the different seasons. the guy at the local motorcycle shop handed me 20w50 and said thats what they use during summertime. any known problems going with this oil for our bikes?

[Thumperville]

FYI : it takes a loooooong time to drain the oil if you don't warm up the motor first... its been on the jack stands draining for about 15 minutes, still slowly dripping lol.

QFE :

Here's what you'll need:


This is a very simple process.

Crank your bike and let it run for a few minutes.

[jonathan180iq]

hey i was just wondering about the oil weights in relation to the different seasons. the guy at the local motorcycle shop handed me 20w50 and said thats what they use during summertime. any known problems going with this oil for our bikes?

I don't deviate from the standard oil weight unless I notice a decline in performance of a vehicle. (knocking in summer or sluggish starting in winter.... yes, I work with a few older, looser engines.)

20w-50 seems like overkill to me, on a bike that the factory recommends 10w-40 on for all driving seasons. The thickest oil I run in a bike is a 15w-40 and that's on an abused China-bike.

[Thumperville]

hey thanks for the info.

i have a problem, or maybe not but it seems before i changed the oil, the oil level site glass while the bike is resting on the kick stand was just black, full of oil.

however after the oil change the site glass now appears to be empty while the bike is on it's stand. after filling the motor with oil i ran it for a few minutes and stood it up but while bending down and trying to balance the bike its hard to tell if the bike is level while trying to see the site glass to get a true reading. maybe i can recruit my buddy to hold the bike upright.

so basically when i balance the bike i can see the oil fill up the site glass and appears to be at the full indicator line. should the bike be off when i'm checking the oil level or should engine be running? is there a difference?

i put 1.5 quarts of oil back in it. i am just worried that there isn't enough oil in the motor when there is nothing in the site glass while the bike is resting on the stand.


thanks again!

[blaine]

You are doing it correct.Bike standing straight up engine off.When the bike is on the side stand you should not see any oil.
:) :cool:

[Rookie Rider]

Right, when bike is on its stand its on a slant so you wont see oil. I take my seat off and put a level on the lil compartment we have under our seat and squat down and hold the bight level to check my oil. Not everytime but i do it.

[Thumperville]

ok, i got it now. thanks for the responses, much appreciated :)

:2tup:

[alantf]

As a rough check.......... Each time, before I start up.......I stand at the side of the bike (oil glass side), I can see a small amount of oil in the glass. I then get hold of the throttle grip & pull the bike upright, while looking at the glass. If I see oil shoot up the glass as I pull the bike upright, I know I'm good to go. You can easily see this from a standing position. :2tup:

[jonathan180iq]

should the bike be off when i'm checking the oil level or should engine be running? is there a difference?



As with all internal combustion engines, the oil level should be checked when the engine is off. When the engine is running, the oil is sucked up into other places, doing it's job. It can't exactly be waiting in the sump for someone to check it if the engine internals are moving around and need lubrication, right?

:)

[PimpS]

is anything wrong if there is a bit more oil? I think i have it a bit more then before...

[jonathan180iq]

Is it so much more that the sight class is more than 100% filled. Extreme over filling can cause too much oil pressure and can blow out seals. But there is a big difference between a tad too much and a quart too much.

[PimpS]

Hello guys!

Tommorow i'll do it myself; oil change and filter change. I will get myself a semi sinthetic 10-40 for motorcycles and a filter, that is made for gz. Now, having my user manual beside my bike, it says you need to change also o-rings for filter (small and bigger one). I don't get them with the filter, what are these o rings specs? I would like to make this job good, so...
Thank you guys!

[Water Warrior 2]

You can probably use the old O-rings. Order new ones for the next oil change if you want.

[jonathan180iq]

Reuse the old one. Just spread some fresh oil on it before you put the filter in and don't over-tighten.

[PimpS]

Hello guys again! Just a question, not a joke, but... in service manual says you need to change oil every 5000 km after initial 1000 km, in user manual every 3000 km... What do you do, after what mileage or kilometrage?
Thanks!

[blaine]

Hello guys again! Just a question, not a joke, but... in service manual says you need to change oil every 5000 km after initial 1000 km, in user manual every 3000 km... What do you do, after what mileage or kilometrage?
Thanks!
I always changed mine at 5000 Km (3000) miles. :) :cool:

[PimpS]

Aha, so it's ok... Funny thing is that always when i mentioned to my friends that i need to change oil after 3000km, they gave me the strange look, since they usually change oil after 10000km... Or my leg was pulled and I was a joke to laugh about :)

[alantf]

I think it must be a mis-print in the user manual. 5000Km=3000miles. :)

[jonathan180iq]

Expensive oils tend to last longer. Cheap oils don't.
I'm a pretty cheap person but I also like getting my hands dirty and the satisfaction of knowing I have fresh fluids.
I just changed my oil whenever I felt like it was needed, or if my shifting smoothness began to deteriorate.
But 3,000 miles is a good rule of thumb.

[PimpS]

OK, thank you guys, i don't feel the shifting is getting worse, I just kind of feel, that the bike put a lot km in seems like bad condtions behind in short period of time, and i will make him a treat by changing oil and filter. I feel kind of sad to push him so hard, but then again, this bike of mine never showed any sign of less powered motion cause of overheating. I felt we both enjoyed every km we have made. ;) Oh, well, i'm still a noob and my senses should get precise, not to neglect my PimpSerS... Thanks again guys!

[jonathan180iq]

If you do short interval oil changes, you don't have to change the oil filter each time. Change it every other time.

What you are avoiding with short interval changes is oil degradation. The oil filter is still more than serviceable. It's ability to filter properly is based on what it has picked up along the way. If your engine is in a good state of tune and your oil changes are more frequent, don't worry so much about it. You can inspect it if you want. But you don't have to always change it.

[chandlerbingfl]

I currently have 11k miles on my GZ and getting ready to change the oil and filter again. Is there any harm in adding a small amount of Seafoam into the crankcase, run the bike for just a few minutes (or till warm, not hot) then letting everything settle prior to draining?

Thanks!
chandlerbingfl

[Water Warrior 2]

I don't have any experience with Seafoam although it may be recommended as a cleaner prior to an oil change. My concern would be is it a good thing for a motorcycle? The bikes have clutch plates that may not take well to a cleaner. For a regular car engine it may be fine. Just thought I'd pass that along. Some one with actual experience will be along shortly.

[blaine]

SeaFoam can be used in the crank case it is safe for wet clutches.I have done this several times in different bikes & cars.
:cool: :)

[Water Warrior 2]

SeaFoam can be used in the crank case it is safe for wet clutches.I have done this several times in different bikes & cars.
:cool: :)
Thank you Blaine, I knew some one would chime in with the answer.

[Rookie Rider]

Do you put seafoam in the cranckcase with new oil then ride normally with it in there till next oil change ?

[blaine]

Do you put seafoam in the cranckcase with new oil then ride normally with it in there till next oil change ?
I always put it in the day before I planned on changing the oil.I only use it when needed,(usually a neglected engine that is sludged up from no oil changes) A engine that is well maintained doesn't require it.
:) :cool:

[chandlerbingfl]

SeaFoam can be used in the crank case it is safe for wet clutches.I have done this several times in different bikes & cars.
:cool: :)

Thanks Blaine! I figured it would be safe because it is petroleum based. I was just worried about the effect on the clutch. I figure I'll add 1/2 oz or so then run the bike to operating temp, let it cool down and then change the oil/filter...

Again thanks!
chandlerbingfl

[peanut]

I did my first motorcycle oil change yesterday with these instructions... So much simpler than ANYTHING I have ever done on a car. Great write up, easy to follow!

I came across one thing that I think would be a helpful addition to this How To. And that is if you don't clean all the leaked out oil off the pipes and engine, it will start smoking when it heats up and burns the oil off. I thought I did a pretty good job of wiping my bike clean, but evidently I missed someplace. I'll admit I didn't read all 7 pages of this thread, so sorry if this was mentioned earlier.

[jonathan180iq]

For the person asking about running something like seafoam in your crankcase until the next oil change, this is a bad idea.

While most of the products are made to be compatible with motor oils and things, they are extremely thin and will effectively lower your overall viscosity, which will in turn keep your oil from doing what it is designed to do. As Blaine mentioned, they can help you get a good cleaning on a neglected motor, but they need to be used in moderation. Like of it like pouring in acidic-water. It's going to clean stuff quickly and it's also going to make your oil like water too. Don't spend too much time riding around with that stuff in your crankcase.

[anruari]

where is the oil drain bolt
there are no good diagrams showing which one it is?

[blaine]

where is the oil drain bolt
there are no good diagrams showing which one it is?

In the center of the engine on the bottom.When you look you will see Two plugs that look the same.The front one is the oil drain.
:cool: :)

[scott103]

I bought an 09 w/12k on it and hit 75 on the way home. as i learned how to ride, i started to notice clutch slip real bad in 3rd, 4th and 5th. If i hit it hard coming into 3rd, major revs with no go, and it didn't get better. i was told it had fresh oil, and learning the full while standing upright, not on the stand part, i drained out about a half a quart of oil.

now the clutch slip only happens when i shift too fast. does this mean that the springs are weak from being alleviated from pressure from too much oil? or do i just have to not have such high expectations?

[jonathan180iq]

Is this your first bike? I would recommend making a new thread to discuss this.

[New GZ250]

Thanks to jonathan180iq, I always look you post for the proper wreench sizes, works every time! A big thank you!