Lights come on but wont start.

[OctaneHalo]

I bought my 2009 GZ250 in July this year and had no problems till about two weeks ago. I drove to my girlfreinds how and when I went to leave it would not start. The lights were on, the bike was in neutral, the kill switch was in the on position and the starter did not even click. after turning the key on an off and kicking the stand up and down a bit it finally crancked. The next day the same thing. and Again the next day but I could not get it to crank that time till I tapped on the starter. I repeated the tapping on the starter several times and it started up that way 5 or 6 times then didnt do anything. I ordered a new starter and now its back to doing nothing at all. Please help with any suggestion! :??:

[clonak]

Just to make sure, you are pulling the clutch in correct ?
is the nutral light actully showing ? I had a problem it wasnt quite in nutral and wouldnt start. clicked it up and down back into nutral and away she went.

also may be the kick stand switch. havent had any problems with one yet so dont know much about them, but if they play up I know it can be anoying.

[5th_bike]

Sounds like an electric problem - download the maintenance manual and check the wiring diagram somewhere near the end, there are many places where a faulty contact could prevent it from starting. Side stand switch, neutral switch, kill switch, key contact, starter relay, start switch - and maybe I forgot a couple. [edit: like the clutch, thanks clonak]

There is little else to do than to go by all wiring and switches involved with starting the bike, and check them for proper operation and connections.

[OctaneHalo]

The neutral light is on and I have popped it in and out several times trying to get it too crank. Still no luck. Where can I download the wire diagrams?

[blaine]

Where can I download the wire diagrams?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27 (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27)
:) :cool:

[OctaneHalo]

Thanks Guys, I tested the Battery and it needed to be recharged. I recharged it and reconnected it and still nothing happened. So I tested the new starter by running a wire directly from battery too the starter and she fired right up and the bike was running strong. I then thing in first gear with kick stand up and it cranked then threw kick stand down and it shut off like normal. I believe now that the ignitiOn switch has gone bad. Does that sound about right too anyone?

[Gz Rider]

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[greatmaul]

You didn't actually mention that you have the clutch pulled in when you're trying to start it? Even in neutral, you need to pull the clutch.

[OctaneHalo]

I'm no mechanic by any means but I'be tested the battery and all the fuses, and the new starter has been tested and I've made sure the kick stand switch is not malfunctioning. The only thing I find that's not working correctly is getting power from the battery too the starter, which I believe are connected my the ignition switch. Nothing happens when I push the switch but the bike starts right up when I place a wire directly from battery too the starter. Is there something else I should be checking? Your help as well as the others is much appreciated! :-)

[OctaneHalo]

You didn't actually mention that you have the clutch pulled in when you're trying to start it? Even in neutral, you need to pull the clutch.
Sorry I forgot to mention but yes I'm pulling the clutch in when trying too start

[Gz Rider]

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[OctaneHalo]

I'm no mechanic by any means but I'be tested the battery and all the fuses, and the new starter has been tested and I've made sure the kick stand switch is not malfunctioning. The only thing I find that's not working correctly is getting power from the battery too the starter, which I believe are connected my the ignition switch. Nothing happens when I push the switch but the bike starts right up when I place a wire directly from battery too the starter. Is there something else I should be checking? Your help as well as the others is much appreciated! :-)

You can test your starter switch to see if it is not functioning but I doubt that's the problem.
Where would that be located?

[Water Warrior 2]

I would be checking the starter switch on the right hand grip just below the kill switch. A little corrosion in there would cause a no start condition. Spray in some contact cleaner and exercise the button a bunch of times to limber it up. That is most likely the culprit if everything else is working.

[Gz Rider]

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[alantf]

The thing that seems most prone to malfunctioning is the red kill switch itself. Try switching it on/off several times. This sometimes works. A good cleaning of it is also needed sometimes.

When you try to start, do you hear the starter relay, under the seat, clicking? If not, then the problem (apart from a run down battery) is definitely in the starter circuit somewhere. You'll have to get a meter, & check every connection in the circuit, in the correct order as shown in the wiring diagram. If you hear the relay clicking, then the starter circuit is o.k.

Good luck :2tup:

[mrlmd1]

The problem could still be your battery being weak, and that is the first place to start. What is the voltage measured at the battery terminals 1/2 hour or more after you charge it? How long at at what amperage did you charge it. A fully charged battery should read at least 12.6V. Try and connect a good 12V battery to the battery cables and not directly to the starter (can leave the bike battery in place when you do this) and see if it starts. That eliminates everything in the line if it starts that way and directs your problem to the battery itself. Don;t look for more exotic things when you have to do this systematically from the beginning.

[Meme]

Ok, let's go over what works and what doesn't.

If the lights come one (you say they do) then the ignition switch is good.

The battery isn't likely the problem, or you would at least have a click when trying to start it.

You say the kickstand switch is good, and it seems to be.

The clutch switch may or not be the problem, but it is simple to test with a multimeter.

The kill switch isn't the problem, or the bike wouldn't start when you short to the starter (the starter would run , but the ignition circuit would not let it fire up).

You say the bike doesn't even click when you hit the start switch (with the clutch in). That means either the start switch is bad and not sending voltage on to the starter relay, or the problem is further down the circuit. (this can be tested with a multimeter, at the starter relay input).

If the starter switch is good, then check the starter relay. This can be done by shorting to the starter relay input, kind of the same thing as shorting to the starter, but in a different place.

In summary, check the starter switch on the right grip, the clutch switch on the left grip, and the starter relay. If none of those are the problem, it's probably wiring.

[alantf]

The battery isn't likely the problem, or you would at least have a click when trying to start it.



You say the bike doesn't even click when you hit the start switch (with the clutch in). That means either the start switch is bad and not sending voltage on to the starter relay, or the problem is further down the circuit. (this can be tested with a multimeter, at the starter relay input).



Sorry, just too many contradictions............If there is no click (i.e. the starter relay pulling in) then it could definitely be a battery problem.

You say that no click means a circuit problem. Again...... it could be a bad battery.

I'm afraid your answer doesn't supply any answers, or even any competent suggestions.

Sorry to be so abrupt, but I don't want this guy going in the wrong direction.

(retired electrician) :)

[Meme]

The battery isn't likely the problem, or you would at least have a click when trying to start it.



You say the bike doesn't even click when you hit the start switch (with the clutch in). That means either the start switch is bad and not sending voltage on to the starter relay, or the problem is further down the circuit. (this can be tested with a multimeter, at the starter relay input).



Sorry, just too many contradictions............If there is no click (i.e. the starter relay pulling in) then it could definitely be a battery problem.

You say that no click means a circuit problem. Again...... it could be a bad battery.

I'm afraid your answer doesn't supply any answers, or even any competent suggestions.

Sorry to be so abrupt, but I don't want this guy going in the wrong direction.

(retired electrician) :)

A totally dead battery wouldn't give a click, but a battery strong enough to turn the starter when shorted would definitely at least cause a click in the starter relay. He also said the lights are on.

I also don't want him going in the wrong direction, which is why I posted what I did.

(current electronic technician) :whistle:

[OctaneHalo]

The battery isn't likely the problem, or you would at least have a click when trying to start it.



You say the bike doesn't even click when you hit the start switch (with the clutch in). That means either the start switch is bad and not sending voltage on to the starter relay, or the problem is further down the circuit. (this can be tested with a multimeter, at the starter relay input).



Sorry, just too many contradictions............If there is no click (i.e. the starter relay pulling in) then it could definitely be a battery problem.

You say that no click means a circuit problem. Again...... it could be a bad battery.

I'm afraid your answer doesn't supply any answers, or even any competent suggestions.

Sorry to be so abrupt, but I don't want this guy going in the wrong direction.

(retired electrician) :)

A totally dead battery wouldn't give a click, but a battery strong enough to turn the starter when shorted would definitely at least cause a click in the starter relay. He also said the lights are on.

I also don't want him going in the wrong direction, which is why I posted what I did.

(current electronic technician) :whistle:

I dont believe it is the clutch switch because It wont crank even by running a wire directly too starter without the clutch being pulled in. But the Starter switch today I was cleaning the inside of it will a very small finger nail file and it tried too start a few times. So I am very much leaning toward the problem being the starter switch. I ran a wire from the battery to a push switch and another wire from the push switch to the starter and I used that today and will use it till I can get a new starter switch ordered. But she ran great for 65 mile when I rode back too college today because It is my only vehicle. Again Thanks for all the comments and help Im very interested in keeping this bike and learning everything I can about it.

[mrlmd1]

Have you checked the starter solenoid (or relay)? That's another thing that can fail. The solenoid may click with low battery voltage, or even with a good battery, but may not pass the high current through it to the starter motor. You can short out the contacts on the solenoid and see if the starter turns over. The solenoid could be bad, the contacts could be dirty. You know your starter is good and the bike runs, so all the safety switches must be fine.
So your problem is either the starter switch, starter relay, wiring somewhere in between those, or a weak battery.
You have to check everything down the line in sequence to find the bad link and not just guess on what to replace next.

[Meme]

I dont believe it is the clutch switch because It wont crank even by running a wire directly too starter without the clutch being pulled in. But the Starter switch today I was cleaning the inside of it will a very small finger nail file and it tried too start a few times. So I am very much leaning toward the problem being the starter switch. I ran a wire from the battery to a push switch and another wire from the push switch to the starter and I used that today and will use it till I can get a new starter switch ordered. But she ran great for 65 mile when I rode back too college today because It is my only vehicle. Again Thanks for all the comments and help Im very interested in keeping this bike and learning everything I can about it.

That certainly sounds like a starter switch then. Did you run the switch you installed to the actual starter or to the starter relay? I'm assuming you mean the starter relay. Running to the starter itself will draw a lot of amps through that switch, and may burn it up if it can't handle that many amps.

[OctaneHalo]

I dont believe it is the clutch switch because It wont crank even by running a wire directly too starter without the clutch being pulled in. But the Starter switch today I was cleaning the inside of it will a very small finger nail file and it tried too start a few times. So I am very much leaning toward the problem being the starter switch. I ran a wire from the battery to a push switch and another wire from the push switch to the starter and I used that today and will use it till I can get a new starter switch ordered. But she ran great for 65 mile when I rode back too college today because It is my only vehicle. Again Thanks for all the comments and help Im very interested in keeping this bike and learning everything I can about it.

That certainly sounds like a starter switch then. Did you run the switch you installed to the actual starter or to the starter relay? I'm assuming you mean the starter relay. Running to the starter itself will draw a lot of amps through that switch, and may burn it up if it can't handle that many amps.
I ran it from battery straight to a switch then straight too starter till I can get a new switch ordered.

[alantf]

I ran it from battery straight to a switch then straight too starter till I can get a new switch ordered.

STOP RIGHT THERE !!!!!! You're putting around 80A through that tiny wire!!!!!! The switch MUST go to the starter relay, not the starter. When you energise the relay via the switch, it closes the heavy duty contacts in the relay, and lets the 80A flow through the thick cable to the starter. Going straight to the starter will cause a massive build up of heat (in the thin starter switch cable) or cable damage, so you're creating one more problem, and possibly creating a danger to yourself. :cry:

[mrlmd1]

You can order all the parts you want, but you don't listen to advice, and that is much cheaper.
It could be the starter switch, or it could be the starter relay or solenoid, or the wiring or a dirty or loose connection, like I said before. So, if you don't test the relay and you buy a new switch, and it still doesn't work, what are you going to do next? Buy a new relay? Unless you test everything down the line from battery to starter in a step-wise and systematic fashion, you are just guessing at what to replace next. You already bought and replaced a new starter for no reason, so how much money do you want to waste until you hit on the faulty part totally by accident? If you keep replacing unnecessary parts, it would be much cheaper in the long run to just bring it to a mechanic and let him do it.

Find the starter relay and check the voltage on the 2 low voltage (12V) terminals on the relay when you hit the start button (with the ignition key on, the Run switch on, the clutch in, etc.). If you get 12V there, there is nothing wrong with that starter button or switch. If you hit the start button, that relay should click. If it doesn't, and you have 12V there, then the relay is bad or stuck. If it does click, then measure the voltage at the 2 heavy wire terminals leading out of the relay, you should get 12V when you hit the start button. If you get nothing, then short out the connections on the 2 heavy wires leading to the starter motor (use a pair of pliers or heavy screwdriver, not a light piece of wire). If the bike starts, at least that tells you the relay may be the problem and the wiring from there to the starter motor is intact. If you tap on the relay and then it clicks and starts that may tell you it's no good because it was stuck and needs replacement, and your tapping on the starter motor could have jiggled that loose so it worked once or twice.
If you don't want to fuss with the relay you could check the starter button first by temporarily bypassing it, by replacing it in the line with the other switch you used - jump from the battery through your new switch to the low voltage contacts on the starter relay and not to the starter motor itself. If the bike starts, then, and only then is the starter switch the problem. Right now you are just guessing and wasting your time and money on parts you may not need. Pretty soon, the bike will be brand new if you keep going at it like you are doing.

There is another possibility related to the starter but it no longer applies if you replaced it, and that is the old one could have been stuck with it's drive gear not working, but that's no longer the case because you replaced the starter with a new one and the bike started and ran OK. The problem is confined to either the starter button or the relay - the RUN switch is not the problem because the bike starts and runs when you bypass both the start button and the starter relay by jumping right to the starter. It would not run if that switch were bad.

[alantf]

measure the voltage at the 2 heavy wire terminals leading out of the relay, you should get 12V when you hit the start button.

I think you mean the 1 heavy duty wire terminal, to ground (leading to the starter motor) :)

When you press the starter button with the clutch pulled in etc, there should be a voltage (around 12v) when you put your meter between the heavy terminal going to the starter motor and ground. :)

[OctaneHalo]

You can order all the parts you want, but you don't listen to advice, and that is much cheaper.
It could be the starter switch, or it could be the starter relay or solenoid, or the wiring or a dirty or loose connection, like I said before. So, if you don't test the relay and you buy a new switch, and it still doesn't work, what are you going to do next? Buy a new relay? Unless you test everything down the line from battery to starter in a step-wise and systematic fashion, you are just guessing at what to replace next. You already bought and replaced a new starter for no reason, so how much money do you want to waste until you hit on the faulty part totally by accident? If you keep replacing unnecessary parts, it would be much cheaper in the long run to just bring it to a mechanic and let him do it.

Find the starter relay and check the voltage on the 2 low voltage (12V) terminals on the relay when you hit the start button (with the ignition key on, the Run switch on, the clutch in, etc.). If you get 12V there, there is nothing wrong with that starter button or switch. If you hit the start button, that relay should click. If it doesn't, and you have 12V there, then the relay is bad or stuck. If it does click, then measure the voltage at the 2 heavy wire terminals leading out of the relay, you should get 12V when you hit the start button. If you get nothing, then short out the connections on the 2 heavy wires leading to the starter motor (use a pair of pliers or heavy screwdriver, not a light piece of wire). If the bike starts, at least that tells you the relay may be the problem and the wiring from there to the starter motor is intact. If you tap on the relay and then it clicks and starts that may tell you it's no good because it was stuck and needs replacement, and your tapping on the starter motor could have jiggled that loose so it worked once or twice.
If you don't want to fuss with the relay you could check the starter button first by temporarily bypassing it, by replacing it in the line with the other switch you used - jump from the battery through your new switch to the low voltage contacts on the starter relay and not to the starter motor itself. If the bike starts, then, and only then is the starter switch the problem. Right now you are just guessing and wasting your time and money on parts you may not need. Pretty soon, the bike will be brand new if you keep going at it like you are doing.

There is another possibility related to the starter but it no longer applies if you replaced it, and that is the old one could have been stuck with it's drive gear not working, but that's no longer the case because you replaced the starter with a new one and the bike started and ran OK. The problem is confined to either the starter button or the relay - the RUN switch is not the problem because the bike starts and runs when you bypass both the start button and the starter relay by jumping right to the starter. It would not run if that switch were bad.
I'm sorry it took soo long to reply guys. Been away at college. I did test the battery and down the line had no problems until the start switch. Had 12v going in but hardly anything coming out of it. I lost my job soo at this present time a machanic can not be an option.

[Gz Rider]

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