Start-up Problem

[bjrscj]

I have had great success on these forums, so I'm hoping the community can help me out again. After letting my bike sit for about 3 weeks, I wanted to take it out today to get the juices flowing in it again. I've had it covered for the past 3 weeks, but when I took the tarp off, there was definitely moisture on the bike. I installed my freshly charged battery and went to crank up the bike, and the engine definitely turned. However, I didn't hear the rumble of the fuel igniting. I cranked until my battery went dead, trying reserve tank and full choke, as well as every other combination. Nothing.

Now it seems to me that the problem would be pretty simple. It seems like the issue should be between the gas tank and the engine. However, I don't know how to go about troubleshooting this. I would appreciate any insight you guys might have. Thanks!

[Gz Rider]

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[Water Warrior 2]

Charge up the battery and try starting the bike with the fuel cock in the PRIME position.

[bjrscj]

Thanks for the replies. I did try starting with the petcock at prime, on, and reserve.

The last issue I had was with my carb. I pretty much just took it apart, cleaned it out, and put it back together. I rode the bike for a few weeks after that, 52 miles a day round trip, almost every day. It ran perfectly until the day I put it under the tarp.

[Rookie Rider]

Is your tank full with good gas ?

[bjrscj]

I filled my tank up a day before letting it sit. I know letting gas sit for a long time isn't good, which is why I was going to try to ride it today. But I didn't think 3 weeks would be long enough for gas to go bad. Is it?

[Gz Rider]

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[jonathan180iq]

Try a drain and fill of the old gas with new gas.
Add carb cleaner for good measure.

[greatmaul]

I'm not sure how to do it - I've seen it posted on here somewhere, but I would check for spark as it sounds like the fuel isn't igniting. Could be a fuse rusted or shorted that is killing the ignition system.

You could also disconnect the fuel line from the petcock for a second and put it in prime just to see that the gas is flowing. Has to be either fuel, spark or air. Most likely one of the first two.

[greatmaul]

Oh, also, how long did it take for the battery to stop cranking the engine? I'd imagine it should last for quite a bit before going dead. If it stopped in short order, maybe it isn't putting out enough power to start? I think sometimes even if the engine is turning, it isn't enough if the battery is dying. I think after a full charge it should show something like 14.3volts? Anything less is a bad sign.

When I bought mine it had a dying battery, and even though I charged it up the bike still wouldn't start, even though it would turn over.

[JWR]

If my bike did not start the first time, I would turn off the kill switch, then turn it back on.

This always worked for me.
As stated the GZ will turn over but not start if the battery is not spinning the motor fast enough.

KISS.

[bjrscj]

I did kill it a bunch of times. I've tried just about everything with the petcock, kill switch, throttle, and choke.

The engine sounded like it was cranking like it normally does. It probably took about 15-20 minutes of cranking. It generally takes some effort to get it started during the winter, so I just thought that since it was recently cold and sitting for awhile, it may take a little more effort. But after about 15 minutes or so, the cranking sounded weaker and the light flickered off when I tried starting it.

I will definitely try the fuel portion today, and I can also check the spark plug. My battery is charging, and I really don't think it would be that anyway. The last time I had issues, I took the battery to a shop and the guy said it had plenty of life. It could be, but it just doesn't seem like it would be. I'll try to rule out the other two things first. Thanks for the advice.

[EDIT] I checked the fuel and it is flowing perfectly when in the prime position. I did not check the spark plug yet, but it was also fine the last time I took my carb apart. Maybe the moisture from sitting caused it to build up gunk on it.

[greatmaul]

I found a tech article from motorcycle cruisers entitled, What to do When Your Motorcycle Won't Start:
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tech/wont_start/viewall.html

I hope you can get it running. It's really frustrating trying to figure things like that out sometimes. Long shot, but watch when you pull the choke lever to see if the cable is still attached. If it's cold it would be very hard to start without the choke.

[alantf]

Mmmmmmmmmm Went to this page, & all I got was a page asking me to subscribe to a year's worth of magazines. :cry: :??:

[Water Warrior 2]

Mmmmmmmmmm Went to this page, & all I got was a page asking me to subscribe to a year's worth of magazines. :cry: :??:
I got the same thing however I just needed to close the mag offer and get to the article.

[Rookie Rider]

My bike sat for almost 4 weeks with a little bit of gas left in it. It wouldnt start. I charged the battery more then once cause it still wouldnt start. After a few attempts and charges, i pushed the bike to the gas station and filled it up with fresh gas, then when i got home i put STABIL in the full tank, just about 3 tablespoons worth. Charged the battery overnight, the badboy started the next day like nothing ever happened. And i still dont have a choke on my bike, outside temp was 42. I rode today after a month and a half of the bike sitting. Temp today was 45, still no choke, and started right up. Ahhhhhhhh !!

[greatmaul]

wow, maybe it is gas, then. I didn't know it could go bad that fast.

[Water Warrior 2]

I am really starting to wonder about the quality of gas in the U.S. compared to Canada. Lynda's GZ sat for the entire first winter with no stabilizer in the tank , old gas and fired right up like a bike ridden on a daily basis. Both of the FI bikes will fire up after months of being parked with no issues except for the Vstrom. it will run for 30 seconds, stop and a second start up will cure whatever is ailing it. Is the Canadian gas that much better or are we just real lucky with our machines?

[alantf]

Seems like the fuel! We don't have the additives in it like the American fuel. Because the bike is our primary transport, our car can sit for weeks without being used, then it'll fire up at the first touch. :)

[Water Warrior 2]

Odd though it may seem about a difference in U.S./Can. fuels they should be the same or nearly the same to meet with the requirements of modern engines and the emission systems. Most if not all newer vehicles in Canada will meet Cali. requirements which are the most stringent of all. Possibly there is a difference of 1 or 2 alternate additives across the border that meets the emission requirements but causes problems in a vehicle parked for a long period of time.
I tried a different brand of gas in the Vstrom a few years ago and after a few weeks I started getting FI codes popping up with the first start up of the day. Discovered the brand was not a top tier fuel and switched back to Chevron. The codes went away.
This might be part of the problem with the GZs not firing up properly. They might need a top tier gas with the leaner fuel/air ratio and a superior additive package in the U.S.

[bjrscj]

Well I'm in the US, but I still hope it is fuel. I'm waiting for a break in the weather to try it out. Thanks again for all the advice. I'll report back when I know more.

[Gz Rider]

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[mrlmd1]

The gas is not your problem - it takes many months for it to go "bad", much slower in the cold weather. And it's not likely your carb would get gummed up in 3 weeks of sitting.
I would bet your problem is the battery, it's probably partially discharged. Did you measure the battery voltage with anything? What did you charge it with and for how long and how do you know it was charged up? You have to measure the voltage at least a half hour after you charge it, to let the "surface charge" dissipate, so you can measure the true voltage.
You need a fully charged battery (which is 12.6V) to start the bike and light off the plugs. Try jumping it from a non-running car and see if it starts. If it still won't start you will have to pull off the spark plug wire or the plug and see if you get any spark when you crank over the engine.
If you don't do this stepwise you will be turning your wheels forever and not solve anything.
You may also have flooded the bike trying to start it and that is a whole separate problem.

[bjrscj]

I drained the original gas and filled up with new stuff. My battery was fully charged, and I made sure the battery was still viable (my charger has an indicator light if the battery is bad) When I hooked everything back up, I went to crank up the bike, and all I heard was a click. The last time I tried to start the bike, the engine would turn, but the fuel wouldn't ignite. Now, I press the starter in and nothing happens, and when I release the button, I hear a soft "click." The engine isn't even turning now. Any suggestions on where to go from here? What could my previous actions have done to cause this new dilemma? Also, I have a few questions below.

1. If I try jump starting the bike from a car (hook up car battery to bike battery, I assume), will that potentially damage the circuitry on the bike?

2. It seems like my engine could very well be flooded, since I did try to start it over and over the last time. However, would that really cause the bike not to crank at all?

[blaine]

I drained the original gas and filled up with new stuff. My battery was fully charged, and I made sure the battery was still viable (my charger has an indicator light if the battery is bad) When I hooked everything back up, I went to crank up the bike, and all I heard was a click. The last time I tried to start the bike, the engine would turn, but the fuel wouldn't ignite. Now, I press the starter in and nothing happens, and when I release the button, I hear a soft "click." The engine isn't even turning now. Any suggestions on where to go from here? What could my previous actions have done to cause this new dilemma? Also, I have a few questions below.

1. If I try jump starting the bike from a car (hook up car battery to bike battery, I assume), will that potentially damage the circuitry on the bike?

2. It seems like my engine could very well be flooded, since I did try to start it over and over the last time. However, would that really cause the bike not to crank at all?
Your bike may be flooded to the point were it is locked & can't turn over.You need to check your oil to see if there is fuel in it.Remove the spark plug & see if the engine will turn over with the plug out.
If you are boosting from a car,just make sure that the vehicle is not running.
:) :cool:

[bjrscj]

I hooked up the bike to my car battery (not running) and tried to start it. The same thing happened. When I pressed the starter, I heard a clicking noise down by the battery, but no turn over. I also checked the oil window, and it looked dark, like no gas has entered the oil. I will try pulling the spark plug if that's what you all think is the next best move, and I'm open to any more ideas.

[Gz Rider]

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[bjrscj]

When on the stand, I don't see oil. When held upright, it is about 3/4 full. It is around the level I fill it up to when I do my oil changes.

[bjrscj]

OK, I just took out the spark plug, and there was no corrosion on it. It appeared to be fine. I tried starting the bike without the spark plug in, as recommended, but still nothing. When I press the starter, there is absolutely nothing other than a soft click from the battery area when I release the button. I don't think it's the battery, as it's charged and the charger says it's still good. The horn doesn't sound weak, and the lights work fine and don't dim when I press the starter. I'd appreciate any more advice you all have.

[alantf]

When I pressed the starter, I heard a clicking noise down by the battery,

That sounds like the starter relay doing what it's supposed to do. If the starter relay is clicking, then this is opening the path for the current to go from the battery to the starter motor. Next step is to get a meter, & while someone holds the starter button in, test what voltage (if any) you're getting between the lug on the starter motor (with the rubber boot pulled off) & a good earth (ground?) on the chassis. Let us know what you find.

Have you tested the battery voltage between the battery terminals, and the starter relay (live side) to chassis. If you got the same result with the car battery (no start), this leads me to believe that the problem lies somewhere between the battery & the starter relay. :)

[bjrscj]

When I pressed the starter, I heard a clicking noise down by the battery,

That sounds like the starter relay doing what it's supposed to do. If the starter relay is clicking, then this is opening the path for the current to go from the battery to the starter motor. Next step is to get a meter, & while someone holds the starter button in, test what voltage (if any) you're getting between the lug on the starter motor (with the rubber boot pulled off) & a good earth (ground?) on the chassis. Let us know what you find.

Have you tested the battery voltage between the battery terminals, and the starter relay (live side) to chassis. If you got the same result with the car battery (no start), this leads me to believe that the problem lies somewhere between the battery & the starter relay. :)

I have not tried that yet. A few questions before I check this out.

1. If this would be the problem, would it be relatively easy to fix, or would I probably take it to a mechanic? I've done simple things like take the carb apart, but I can't get too involved in things, and don't want to waste the time if the mechanic has to fix it anyway.

2. I found the starter motor in the manual, but it doesn't give the location. Is it by the starter relay (which is given in the manual)?

3. For the relay, it told me to take out the negative terminal on the battery, then test it with a 12v charge. How would it get the charge if the battery isn't hooked up? You just told me to connect the negative end to the frame/ground, so is that just as acceptable?

[mrlmd1]

If you put the Pos. lead from the car battery directly on to the starter Pos terminal, and the Neg. from the battery to a ground anywhere on the bike, you can see if the starter motor is any good. The motor should turn over if directly connected to the battery. If the starter turns at normal speed, then there is something wrong between the starter relay and the starter itself and could be as simple as a really corroded dirty or loose connection.

[alantf]

If the starter turns at normal speed, then there is something wrong between the starter relay and the starter itself and could be as simple as a really corroded dirty or loose connection.

Thing is............ Between the starter relay & the starter motor there is only the cable - with a connection at the relay, & a connection at the starter motor. So in this case the problem can only be at one end or the other. That's why I suggested the tests that I did. I agree that mrmld1's suggestion is valid, though (to prove the starter motor). The starter motor is at the front of the bike, on the right as you sit on the bike, at the front of the engine, & is the cylindrical thingy with the thick cable going to it. There is a rubber boot covering the terminal. The other end of this cable goes straight to the starter relay. You can see the terminal at the relay end of the cable by removing the right side panel, then take the white plastic cover off the relay that you will then see.

If you connect the car battery to the starter motor (+ve) & chassis (-ve) & prove that the starter turns, then check the connections at the starter motor & the relay. If these are o.k., then the problem is either the battery, or between battery & relay, like I said. I don't think the problem is one of the safety switches, or the relay wouldn't pull in (click), so it's a straight circuit from battery to relay, & from relay to starter motor.

Good hunting & keep us updated so we can work out the next step. :)

[Gz Rider]

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[Water Warrior 2]

When on the stand, I don't see oil. When held upright, it is about 3/4 full. It is around the level I fill it up to when I do my oil changes.

Sounds right. Next issue....

If you choose to follow the advice regarding jumping straight to the starter motor, I would think you would have to be sure the bike was in neutral. This system would bypass all the safety systems of the kill switch, the kick stand switch and the clutch. If you jump straight to the starter and the bike is in gear, the bike would lurch forward I would think.
Oh yeah, that would a heck of a safety plan. Might save some damage and possible injury. I will add this for safety if you want to be very sure of no oops. Tie the clutch lever to the grip with a strip of velcro.

[bjrscj]

OK. When I hooked the battery up from my car battery to frame and starter motor, the motor turned nicely. I don't have a tool to check the voltage, but I will be getting one tomorrow. So the problem seems to be either the battery itself, or the connection between the battery and the relay, correct? I'll check that tomorrow and let you know if that's the problem. I feel like I'm finally making some progress. Thanks!

[bjrscj]

I got a multimeter and checked the voltage on the battery. The battery, after sitting for five or six days in cold weather, was sitting around 11.8 volts. Unfortunately, it was too dark and cold to check the relay connection. A few questions though. It tells me to apply 12 volts to the terminals, but how do I do that with a multimeter? Also, I see four slots for wires on the relay connection, but I only see three wires coming out. Is that normal?

[alantf]

It tells me to apply 12 volts to the terminals, but how do I do that with a multimeter?

You don't :) A multimeter will only record a voltage that is applied to any terminals. I think that what it actually means is - use a multimeter to prove that there is 12v at the terminals. I think you've already proved that by hearing the relay click. All the relay does is to use a small current that goes via the starter button to energise a solenoid coil in the relay, which in turn closes a heavy duty contact to apply the 80A or so that the starter motor needs. This is a (very) simplified example.[attachment=0:3lgwgs2k]img022.jpg[/attachment:3lgwgs2k]

[Gz Rider]

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[alantf]

he is showing 11.8 volts from the battery which, in my opinion means the battery is not properly holding a charge.

I agree that this is an issue, but he also said that it wouldn't start from a car battery, so it may be two problems - a battery problem plus a circuit problem.

[Gz Rider]

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[alantf]

I agree. Since but if we know the battery is bad why not start with replacing that and see if that solves the curcuit problem?

I concur. :) Looks like the battery's not holding a charge.

[mrlmd1]

11.8 V = DEAD battery. It will never start with battery voltage that low before you hit the start button.
And all you are doing when you connect a good battery directly to the starter is energizing the starter with 12V, you are not supplying any juice to any other circuit needed to start the bike, like to the ignition system. There is no other circuit problem anywhere.

Your problem is a dead battery or a bad battery -very simple, and until you correct that, stop looking for other more exotic causes.

If you are new to this bike and you have charged up the battery before, you may be inadvertently turning the key past the Off position to the Park position (all the way to the right if I remember), and leaving on the rear parking lights which you may not notice when you are leaving the bike. This will discharge the battery in a few hours and you will not be able to start it again.

To repeat this again -- Put the battery on a 2 amp charger overnight, measure the voltage 1/2 hour or more after you charge it fully. It should be at 12.6V. It should still read that or real close the next day. The bike should start with the battery at full charge, and use the choke as intended. Do not let the bike sit running to recharge the battery. There is no significant charge output at idle and you will use up more "juice" in starting it then you will be replacing. If you need to charge the battery, either put it on the charger or go for at least a half hour ride. Air cooled bikes do not like to idle or sit running for long periods of time - they need to be ridden to cool properly.

The best way to check the battery to see if it's any good is to get it load tested - after you FULLY charge it - and any garage, auto store or battery place will do this for free.
If you get sucked in by some place that tells you your battery is "shot" and you have to buy a new one, and you get an AGM motorcycle battery - be warned. These MUST BE CHARGED TO FULL CAPACITY BEFORE FIRST USE or they will NEVER hold a full charge. Do not listen to the advice of the guy in the store who tells you take the battery home, install it and it is good to go. Unless you yourself take the time to charge it up fully, you will be back in the store in a few weeks trying to get a new replacement battery because the other one you just bought has failed or won't hold a full charge.

His bike may not have started with his car battery jumped to his bike battery because the car battery may just be discharging into that severely depleted dead battery and no juice is really flowing to the bike's components. I bet if he just hooked the car battery to the battery cables on the bike and took the bike's battery out or disconnected it from the circuit, the bike would start fine.

[blaine]

If you are new to this bike and you have charged up the battery before, you may be inadvertently turning the key past the Off position to the Park position (all the way to the right if I remember), and leaving on the rear parking lights which you may not notice when you are leaving the bike. This will discharge the battery in a few hours and you will not be able to start it again.

:plus1: Key to the left is off,park,and fork lock. :)

[bjrscj]

I appreciate the advice. The reason I've been looking for more "exotic" causes is because I had my battery load tested a few months ago (and haven't ridden it all that much since then) when I was having other issues, and they said it was fine. Also, I have been charging my battery on a battery charger that is supposed to have an indicator light flash if the battery won't hold a charge - and the light has not flashed at all. That being said, I trust the community's knowledge of this, as I know these other routes may prove to be faulty, or I have misunderstood their application.

I do have a few questions that may help me understand this a little more. From my understanding, the battery is a 12v battery, so when I read 11.8 v, that didn't seem too bad to me. I have heard that batteries lose charge, particularly in the winter months when it's cold, which is why some guys have their batteries hooked up over the winter (so I'm told). Is the .2v that big of a deal? Also, why isn't my battery charger light reliable? I got a 1.5 amp (I think) charger, so it's small, but it's supposed to do the job.

[Edit] Now that I think of it, right before I sat my bike, I tried some hand warmers hooked up to the battery, and after about a mile of riding, it killed the lights on and off, and made the bike sputter. I suppose this could have depleted the battery beyond holding a charge, but that still doesn't explain my lack of replacement light on my charger.

[Gz Rider]

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[alantf]

From my understanding, the battery is a 12v battery, so when I read 11.8 v, that didn't seem too bad to me.

Actually, 12v should read "Nominal 12v". This is just a way of differentiating between, say, 6v, 12v, 110v, 240v etc. None of these voltages would measure exactly what they are called. Remember, power (wattage) is volts X amps, so the lower the voltage the higher the current needs to be for any given wattage. This means that for any given wattage, if the voltage drops (12.6v - 11.8v) 0.8v, that is 6.6% of the nominal voltage, so the current needs to rise by 6.6% of whatever current is needed to turn the starter plus provide a spark, When we're talking about such low (12v) voltages, & such high starting current (80A?) you can see that it makes a great difference. :2tup:

[mrlmd1]

FYI- a fully charged lead acid battery should read 12.6-12.8V., that's 2.1V / cell.
For an SLA battery VRLA battery
12.66 V 100%charge 12.85 V
12.45 V 75% 12.65 V
12.24 V 50% 12.35 V
12,06 V 25% 12.00 V
11.80 V 0% 11.80 V


If you are using a 1.5 amp charger you will need to leave that hooked up for maybe 12 hours to get your battery back to full charge. And the charging capacity of these bikes is minimal and you probably depleted the battery with those handwarmers. You have a dead battery as your problem. Just charge it up for at least 12 hours or more.

[Gz Rider]

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[bjrscj]

FYI- a fully charged lead acid battery should read 12.6-12.8V., that's 2.1V / cell.
For an SLA battery VRLA battery
12.66 V 100%charge 12.85 V
12.45 V 75% 12.65 V
12.24 V 50% 12.35 V
12,06 V 25% 12.00 V
11.80 V 0% 11.80 V


If you are using a 1.5 amp charger you will need to leave that hooked up for maybe 12 hours to get your battery back to full charge. And the charging capacity of these bikes is minimal and you probably depleted the battery with those handwarmers. You have a dead battery as your problem. Just charge it up for at least 12 hours or more.


I ride the bike rather frequently, but due to the cold, I haven't ridden it much recently. As far as the handwarmers, I have charged my battery two or three times since then, for much more than 12 hours. I'll try charging it again and then read it after taking it off the charger.

Assuming it is the battery, would you have any recommendations for a specific type?

[Gz Rider]

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[Meme]

If you hook up your battery that was at 11.8v after 5 or six days, to a fully charged car battery and it still doesn't start, I really doubt it is a battery problem. 11.8v is low, but not low enough to drain even the smallest of car batteries right away. Also remember that the cheap multimeters aren't always accurate, so 11.8v may actually be 12.1v or 11.6v, etc.

I would hook up to the car battery and try some starter fluid in the air filter. Or just try starter fluid without hooking to another battery. If it starts, put everything together and take it for a ride (don't turn it off or go far from home). Once it is running well with the choke off and you are back home try turning it off and then starting it back up.

It sounds to me like a carb problem more than anything else. There may be some gunk in the tank or fuel lines that got into the carb after you cleaned it.

[greatmaul]

Yeah, definitely the battery. I bought my bike used and it had been sitting for years. Got it jumped and it ran lousy. After lots of trial and error, got a brand new battery and it runs like a champ ever since.

If you have a Cycle Gear store near you, they have the only lifetime warranty battery. Just go in and ask them they'll give it to you. It's about $69, but you can take it in forever to get free replacements and they all go bad after a few years, no matter what. I think it's called the DuraBoost Platinum. I googled it first to see if they actually stood by their warranty and from what I read, it's a no brainer.

My battery was also charging up and reading a little over 12V, but it just isn't enough. A battery that doesn't go to full charge, as listed above, is dead already and just doesn't realize it yet.

[bjrscj]

I generally like Cycle Gear, but their price for the duraboost was $90. I found another battery (link below) that's half that price, so even if I do need a replacement, I can buy another one. Someone else said that you need to charge batteries out of the box even if they say you don't need to. Would that apply to the battery I'm looking at, and would anyone have any recommendations against the battery below?

http://www.batterymart.com/p-YTX7L-BS-A ... 50-battery (http://www.batterymart.com/p-YTX7L-BS-AGM-Maintenance-Free-Battery.html?Category_Code=suzuki-gz250-battery)

[Meme]

Yes, that battery is an AGM and needs to be fully charged before use.

[Gz Rider]

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[bjrscj]

I ordered the battery and it should be here early next week. I re-charged my battery for a good 20 hours, and when I checked it today, it was sitting at 11.7 volts. So it does seem to be a/the problem. If that doesn't solve it, it's either the wiring (which someone said should be fine since the starter/relay clicks), or someone suggested the carb. I'll hook the battery up when it gets here (after I charge it, of course - thanks for that pointer) and cross my fingers. I appreciate all of the wisdom you guys have given to me.

[mrlmd1]

Did you try and start it with a good 12 V battery hooked directly up to the battery terminals without your battery connected, as I suggested before? If it starts and runs then you have definitely located your problem.

[greatmaul]

I have to concur about the battery. Even though it sounds like it should still sort of work even if the voltage isn't quite at the top, in my personal experience, a new battery solved everything when I had the same issue. I hope it works out for you!

[bjrscj]

I got my battery in yesterday and charged it. It held at 12.7 v. I went to start my bike today, and it cranked like a champ. However, the fuel was still not igniting. I primed the bike and used full choke, as I had taken my tank off to do some work recently, so I thought the engine may not be getting gas. However, after 5-6 attempts at starting it, the fuel still did not catch. Maybe I need to prime it some more, but I didn’t want to flood the engine.

So far I have checked the spark plug, and that seems to be fine. I could replace it just to rule it out, but I’m not sure that’s the problem. I’d appreciate any further insight you may have. Thanks!

[blaine]

You need to remove your fuel line at the carb end to see if you are getting fuel.Then we can go from there.
:) :cool:

[bjrscj]

OK, so remove the hose on the carb and then put the petcock in the prime position? I assume I don't actually try to start it not hooked up, but I have no clue. Thanks.

[JWR]

The spark plug will foul if choked too much and not starting.

[blaine]

OK, so remove the hose on the carb and then put the petcock in the prime position? I assume I don't actually try to start it not hooked up, but I have no clue. Thanks.
Yes,that way you can verify that fuel is getting to the carb.When you put it on "pri" the fuel should flow.
:) :cool:

[Gz Rider]

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[mrlmd1]

When you put the tank back on, did you reconnect the vacuum hose to the petcock?

[bjrscj]

When you put the tank back on, did you reconnect the vacuum hose to the petcock?

I reconnected both hoses (fuel and vacuum). I know that fuel is flowing from the tank through the fuel hose in the prime position, but I will disconnect the hose from the carb as suggested earlier (I believe you're talking about a different fuel hose than the one that connects from the petcock/tank, right? Correct me if it's one and the same).

[blaine]

There is only one fuel hose.From the petcock to the carb. :) :cool:

[bjrscj]

Well, then I'm 100% certain that fuel is running when in the prime position.

[blaine]

Well, then I'm 100% certain that fuel is running when in the prime position.
OK,next you will want to check for to see if the plug is firing.Take out the plug & lay it (ground it)against the side of the engine.Try to start the engine.You should be able to see a blue spark jump across the plug.
:) :cool:

[Meme]

After you verify that the spark plug is firing, I would try using some starter fluid in the air cleaner, as I suggested before. I really think it is a carb problem. The start circuit in the carb on these clogs up pretty easily. Spraying some starter fluid in it will give it something to fire up, even if the carb is plugged up.

[bjrscj]

I took the spark plug out and it was damp. Considering it's been a few days since I tried to start the bike, I thought that was a little odd. Maybe not.

I got a replacement spark plug just to make sure, tested the spark, and it was fine. I tried to fire up the bike, and it just revved but did not ignite. I still hear that clicking noise on the right side of the bike, but maybe that's always been there and I just never noticed it.

I did not get starter fluid into the carb yet, so perhaps I'll do that tomorrow. I still have carb cleaner, so should I just take the carb apart and clean it out good? I've done it before, and know how to do it, although I'd rather not if you don't think it would make a difference. I look forward to hearing more advice, and I'll let you know how the starter fluid works.

[mrlmd1]

If the plug was damp, you flooded the engine. That damp = gas.

Just check your battery voltage one more time and let me know what it is. And let me know what it is when you crank over the starter.

[blaine]

Now that we have determined that the engine is flooded.Spin it over a few times with the spark plug out.This will dry out the combustion chamber.When you try to start the engine,hold the throttle open about a 1/3 of the way,no choke.
:) :2tup:

[bjrscj]

I'm not sure if I'll get to that tomorrow. But I will try to start the engine with the plug out. However, I assume I'm starting this with the petcock in the normal position, not the prime, right? Or do I disconnect the fuel line and vacuum line altogether?

As far as battery voltage, after I charged the new battery, it registered 12.7. I'm recharging it now to ensure it'll work fine when I crank it next. As far as the voltage when I crank it, do you want to know what the charge is as I crank, I assume? Or were you wondering what the voltage is afterwards, to see if it lost any charge?

[blaine]

I'm not sure if I'll get to that tomorrow. But I will try to start the engine with the plug out. However, I assume I'm starting this with the petcock in the normal position, not the prime, right? Or do I disconnect the fuel line and vacuum line altogether?

Just leave the petcock in the "run position.Turn the engine over a few times with the plug out,to dry the engine.Than install the plug & try to start.
:) :cool:

[mrlmd1]

I'm trying to see what the voltage drops to as you crank over the engine, preferably with the plug in after you dry out the cylinder. That's like a load test on the battery. The starter draws about 80amps when it's cranking over the engine and I am interested in the battery voltage when you do this for 5 sec or so. And then see what the voltage drops to when you are done doing that. I am trying to see the health status of your battery.

[Gz Rider]

...

[blaine]

I'm not sure if I'll get to that tomorrow. But I will try to start the engine with the plug out. However, I assume I'm starting this with the petcock in the normal position, not the prime, right? Or do I disconnect the fuel line and vacuum line altogether?

Just leave the petcock in the "run position.Turn the engine over a few times with the plug out,to dry the engine.Than install the plug & try to start.
:) :cool:

If there's still gas in the carb, won't it be drawn into the cyl and keep things wet? Maybe drain the carb bowl and temperarily disconnect the vacuum line?
Not if the engine and plug are dry.Got to have some fuel for the engine to fire & run.Also didn't want to give him to many directions & confuse him.I think that's what happened at the first of this thread ( 4 pages ago).
:) :cool:

[Gz Rider]

...

[blaine]

It possible that he is seeing oil,or condensation.But I doubt it.The plug will remain "wet" until you remove it and dry it.At this point I was just taking him step by step to see if he can get the bike to fire.
:cool: :)

[bjrscj]

Thanks for all the advice. Today I dried everything out by dry-cranking it, put the spark plug back in, and sprayed starter fluid into the airbox. I am happy to say that IT WORKED! I had the bike running for a good 15 minutes. However, I still have two concerns you may be able to help me with.

1. Even after 15 minutes of running in 40 degree weather, and after riding around the block a few times, in unchoked, unthrottled condition, the bike would idle slowly and die out eventually. Is this any indication of a problem with fuel, spark plug not having appropriate gap, battery, etc? I didn't mess with the spark plug gap, as the guy at the store told me it should already be fine (which doesn't sound right to me), but it looks much smaller than how I measured my last one. As far as the battery goes, I measured the charge at 12.58, and when cranked, it measured in the mid 11's.

2. When I was riding around, I heard a clicking/grinding noise coming from the dash by my keys. I have other keys coming off my bike key, and the metal was touching the metal of the dash, creating sparks. I realize that ground is running through the metal, but I don't recall ever noticing this happening before. Did I somehow mess something up when I hooked up the battery?


I can't thank you all enough. I definitely couldn't afford to take my bike to the shop, so you all saved me big time. Have a great weekend.

[Meme]

The dying at idle part may just be that it's not warmed up yet. If it is fully warmed up it is most likely the carb having some plugged up passages and needing a thorough cleaning. You may be able to get away with some kind of fuel additive. If not then take it off, disassemble it and spray EVERY little hole.

Not sure about the keys, but there shouldn't be any sparks!

[blaine]

Check your ground (-) cable a make sure that it is clean and tight,there should be a secondary ground going to the frame of the bike.The plug needs to be gaped to specialization.It could the cause of your stalling.I wish I had a dime for every time some idiot at the store told me the "plug was already gaped".That same plug fits numerous different engines,all with different gaps.
Oh,and your quite welcome.
:) :cool:

[mrlmd1]

Put some Berryman's B12 Chemtool or Seafoam into the gas tank at the dosage of 1 oz/gal of gas every 3 or 4 tankfuls. It will clean and keep your carb clean. They are available and Walmart and just about all auto parts stores.
When your bike is fully warmed up, the idle should be about 1300rpm. It could be that the idle is adjusted too low and you have to adjust it AFTER the engine warms up, with turning that white knob below the carb. Look in the manual for instructions or do a search on here for idle adjustment.
There should be no sparks from keys touching your bike anywhere leading out from the ignition switch. You are going to have to check some wiring or that switch Something is shorting out when you see sparks.

[alantf]

When your bike is fully warmed up, the idle should be about 1300rpm.

:plus1: It's easy for a newbie to overlook the fact that the idle speed for the gz is much higher than one might expect. Don't forget that to set it the engine must be thoroughly warmed up & the choke off, although you might want to set it higher than it is now, with a cold engine, so that the engine will not stall, then make the final adjustment with a warm engine/choke off. :)

[Gz Rider]

...

[chandlerbingfl]

The gas is not your problem - it takes many months for it to go "bad", much slower in the cold weather. And it's not likely your carb would get gummed up in 3 weeks of sitting.
I would bet your problem is the battery, it's probably partially discharged. Did you measure the battery voltage with anything? What did you charge it with and for how long and how do you know it was charged up? You have to measure the voltage at least a half hour after you charge it, to let the "surface charge" dissipate, so you can measure the true voltage.
You need a fully charged battery (which is 12.6V) to start the bike and light off the plugs. Try jumping it from a non-running car and see if it starts. If it still won't start you will have to pull off the spark plug wire or the plug and see if you get any spark when you crank over the engine.
If you don't do this stepwise you will be turning your wheels forever and not solve anything.
You may also have flooded the bike trying to start it and that is a whole separate problem.

I am having starting issues also :??: so if I may ask a question? You state that the battery should be 12.6 volts correct? Then if the battery is dead or lacking in voltage how is it possible to push start the bike?

As for my start up issue it looks as though I am not getting fuel into the cylinder so it's time for me to proceed to read on!

Thanks,
Chandler

[alantf]

so if I may ask a question? You state that the battery should be 12.6 volts correct? Then if the battery is dead or lacking in voltage how is it possible to push start the bike?



Very, very, basically - you get the bike moving as fast as you can, in 2nd gear, with the clutch pulled in. When you release the clutch lever, the transmission engages. At this time, the moving bike causes the engine to turn. This, in turn, causes the alternator to spin & produce electricity, which fires the plug, so now the engine is driving the bike, & in turn producing more electricity to keep the bike running, & hopefully put a bit of charge into the battery. :)

[Gz Rider]

...

[alantf]

(othere systems are on other vehicles are called generators or alternators)

All this means is that a generator produces a dc voltage, & an alternator produces ac voltage. Older vehicles used a generator, but all modern vehicles (including the GZ) use an alternator, with diodes (to change ac to dc), which is a much more efficient way of producing the dc the vehicles need, at much lower revs. :2tup: