Occupy Wall Street

[mrlmd1]

To help explain what this is all about.

http://front.moveon.org/the-occupywalls ... olbermann/ (http://front.moveon.org/the-occupywallstreet-statement-as-read-by-keith-olbermann/)

[Water Warrior 2]

To help explain what this is all about.

http://front.moveon.org/the-occupywalls ... olbermann/ (http://front.moveon.org/the-occupywallstreet-statement-as-read-by-keith-olbermann/)
That is a lot of fixing. The situation has taken many decades to arrive at this point. I wonder if it is reversable ?

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[jonathan180iq]

It's good to have a face to deliver that message, but I think that what they are looking for is whole shift is societal values. And for that to happen, you need more than just a few people protesting.

It's a good start, but it's years/decades away (without a revolution)

And for the record, I'm a Robin Hood supporter. So it's not like I'm against them or anything. But personal responsibility and grassroots cultural changes will make a larger impact than simply standing around picketing the rich folks.

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[jonathan180iq]

Completely agree.

I mean, look what happened to our own system of government. The founders set in place a perfect system, assuming that humans would band together for the betterment of each other and for their nation, not for themselves. Throw human nature into any equation, with all of its selfishness and greed and whatever else we have hidden in there, and you're going to wind up in a giant quagmire of doo-doo.

Great households need strong fathers/parents, great companies need strong CEOs and great causes/movements/governments need great leaders.

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[mrlmd1]

The whole problem is excessive greed. Money controls everything, until there's a revolution. But the greed and and the lobbying power and control of government of those 1%ers is horrendous and they really are oblivious to everyone at the middle or bottom of the pile that they squeezed to get there. And those Wall Street firms don't do anything, no manufacturing or providing of any valuable service, instead they concoct new ways to manipulate the market and make money, like derivatives, subprime mortgages to suck people in to spending more than they can afford, and betting on something to fail. Does anybody know what exactly a derivative is other than some kind of bad-ass scheme to make money?
And there was no investigation or prosecution of anyone of them that got this country into this mess. Not when they're in control and the politicians rely on their backing. Environmental destruction to make a buck is also the norm. This movement may not go anywhere right now but it may build into something really significant. The TEA party started like this, You would think that there would be some honest politicians who might pay some attention to their gripes and do something constructive, instead of blocking everything to do nothing except try and get rid of Obama so they can further their goals even more.

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[5th_bike]

Well it has been going on since September 17 and was completely ignored by the US mainstream media for two weeks. First time I saw OWS on TV was Oct. 1 on the Russian news and the French news, when hundreds were arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge.

The first US channel that I know reported it was Fox Oct. 2. The others (ok, I only checked ABC) followed within 24 hours.

Also our local paper the Baltimore Sun on October 2 had a little photo of some punk type in front of police on page 6 or something, with three quite meaningless lines under it, about the 400 to 1,000 arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge. I remember searching their website for it Oct. 1, found absolutely nothing, and told my wife "if they're still not reporting about this, I'm going to cancel that newspaper." Lucky for them they did.

[jonathan180iq]

It's one of those things in the media where everyone agrees that the principles and points made are legitimate problems in this society, but they don't know how to acknowledge it without being deemed hypocritical. Because the truth of the matter is, like everything else, our mainstream media will move on to another popular topic just as easily as the tides change during a day. And when our mainstream media isn't reporting something, the general populace assumes that it's out of the picture and no longer a real issue.

Are we still at war with insurgents in Iraq or Afghanistan? You wouldn't know based on the media coverage.

When did the OWS protests start? As you said, it must have been Oct. 1st because that's when the media picked up on.

Our reporting and national journalism has been reduced to little more than heavily opinionated talk shows that change topics faster than Oprah changes diet programs. There is very little reporting actually going on. And even when it is reported, you get a biased view showing little more than a punk kid standing in front of police cars. And because of that, you have a very dumb and uneducated populace that never ever hear the message of the protesters (of either party) because so much time is spent trying to spin the image that is created.

It's pathetic, really.

"I know it's true because Fox News told me."
"I know it's true because I saw it on CNBC."
"Anderson Cooper never sensationalizes his stories."
"Rush Limbaugh is unbiased and the only one searching for answers in this world."

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[mrlmd1]

Received in a text message today.
http://s2.postimage.org/15yvpuqs/Sex_govt_photo.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/15yvpuqs/)

[mrlmd1]

And get a load of this now, and check it out for yourself. This should create quite an uproar. And how much will that cost you?

SOCIAL SECURITY CHECKS 1% TAX AT ALL BANKS

FYI
ON JANUARY 1 ST 2012, THE GOVERNMENT IS REQUIRING EVERYONE TO HAVE DIRECT DEPOSIT FOR SS CHECKS.
WONDER WHY?

1% tax on all bank transactions HR4646

Watch for this AFTER November elections; remember this BEFORE you VOTE in case you think Obama's looking out for your best interest.

1% tax on all bank transactions HR 4646

This government just cannot think of enough ways to hurt the American people! I sure hope this dies!!!!!

FORWARD THIS TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW!

1% tax on all bank transactions HR 4646 - ANOTHER NEW OBAMA TAX SLIPPED IN WHILE WE WERE ASLEEP. Checked this on snopes, it's true! Check out HR 4646.

President Obama's finance team is recommending a one percent (1%) transaction fee (TAX). Obama's plan is to sneak it in after the November elections to keep it under the radar.

This is a 1% tax on all transactions at any financial institution - banks, credit unions, savings and loans, etc. Any deposit you make, or even a transfer within your account, will have a 1% tax charged. ~If your paycheck or your social security or whatever is direct deposit, it will get a 1% tax charged for the transaction. ~If your paycheck is $1000, then you will pay Obama $10 just for the privilege of depositing your paycheck in your bank. Even if you hand carry your paycheck or any check into your bank for a deposit, 1% tax will be charged. ~You receive a $5,000 stock dividend from your broker, Obama takes $50 just to allow you to deposit that check in the bank.. ~If you take $1,000 cash to deposit at your bank, 1% tax will be charged.

Mind you, this is from the man who promised that, if you make under $250,000 per year, you will not see one penny of new tax. Keep your eyes and ears open, you will be amazed at what you learn about this guy's under-the-table moves to increase the number of ways you are taxed.

Oh, and by the way, if you receive a refund from the IRS next year and you have it direct deposited or you walk in to deposit that check, you guessed it. You will pay a 1% charge of that money just for putting it in your bank. Remember, any money, cash, check or whatever, no matter where it came from, you will pay a 1% fee if you put it in the bank.

Some will say, oh well, it's just 1%. Are you kidding me? It's a 1% tax increase across the board. Remember, once the tax is there, they can also raise it at will. And if anyone protests, they will just say, "Oh,that's not really a tax, it's a user fee"! Think this is no big deal? Go back and look at the transactions you made from one year's banking statements. Then add the total of all those transactions and deduct 1%. Still think it's no big deal?


1. snopes.com: Debt Free America Act•••
Is the U.S. government proposing a 1% tax on debit card usage and/or banking transactions?
...It is true. The bill is HR - 4646 introduced by US Rep Peter deFazio D-Oregon and US Senator Tom Harkin D-Iowa. Their plan is to sneak it in after the...
...moved beyond proposing studies and submitted the Debt Free America Act (H.R. 4646 ), a bill calling for the implementation of a scheme to pay down the...
...[2010] by Rep. Chaka Fattah (D-Pa.). His "Debt Free America Act" (H.R. 4646 ) would impose a 1 percent "transaction tax" on every financial transaction...
Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:26:26 GMT http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/debtfree.asp

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[mrlmd1]

I just brought that up to show the idiotic ideas people are thinking up instead of doing the logical thing. There is too much money and lobbying power and special interests and buying government to what what's right. That's what is behind this latest "uprising" in the streets.

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[mrlmd1]

It's the same thing with catchy phrases that a public grabs on to without even looking into them, like Cain's 999 plan which every economist says is ridiculous and is very progressive in taxing the poor tremendously while giving a gigantic break to the wealthy. But it sounds good ('till you read the details, like a 9% federal tax on all purchases in addition to whatever state and local sales taxes you already pay, and companies having to buy from only American suppliers without a penalty which is in violation of all international laws regarding trade. And the 9% corporate tax with no deductions allowed, not even for rent or supplies or salaries or other legitimate deductions - how many small businesses will that put out of business totally?). But it sounds good to the uneducated (including him), and it gets votes from people who don't know any better and are easily fooled, just like with the subprime mortgages egging people to buy more than they could afford. This country has to wake up and see what's happening and get a little bit more educated instead of relying on a higher religious power to save them.

[mrlmd1]

Now watch this video - the ultimate hypocrisy. How far does this have to go before congress takes notice? Are they all blind, tone deaf, or just don't give a crap for anything other than themselves and their job? Wait 'till the next election cycle.

I Am Not Moving - a short film about Occupy Wall Street

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuZS6aknDxQ&NR=1

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[alantf]

like a 9% federal tax on all purchases in addition to whatever state and local sales taxes you already pay,

How much does your local sales tax add up to? In England the greedy government has introduced a 20% VAT (Value Added Tax :whistle: ) on all purchases. This means that, for example, fuel which is already heavily taxed, has a 20% tax added, and the VAT is paid on the total amount, so you're paying tax on the tax. :cry:

[jonathan180iq]

Are they all blind, tone deaf, or just don't give a crap for anything other than themselves and their job?




Yes.

That's the problem. Politics is now a career choice, just like any other, instead of a body of elected representatives of the people.
The goal of politicians is not to make the right decisions or to represent themselves. Their goal is to get reelected and/or to keep someone from an opposing party to get elected. Doing the right thing doesn't matter.

Why don't we have any of these guys?
http://www.moviegoods.com/Assets/product_images/1020/456894.1020.A.jpg

[mrlmd1]

Those guy are long gone, dead, extinct like the dinosaurs. Well. maybe there's a few of them left.
What this country needs is no career politicians, stagger the terms, maybe limit service to 4 or 6 years at most, then you're gone, back into the real world. With no exorbitant pensions and benefits for the rest of your life. Just thank you, now goodbye.

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[mrlmd1]

Let's just hope too that he ain't gonna happen. The flavor of the month, or week, changes everyday when they have such poor choices for the leader of the free world, and for us too.

[mrlmd1]

Here are some charts to further explain all this - pretty interesting.

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wal ... 11-10?op=1 (http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1)

[Water Warrior 2]

My ex-brother inlaw lived by the Golden Rule. Whoever has the Gold makes the Rules. Big Business and Politicians make the rules.

[music man]

The greatest trick the government ever played (and are still playing) is that no majority group of people ever will protest or revolt against them, because they keep us divided and blind to whats really going on by keeping the finger pointing (Example)- well I am a DEMOCRAT and the REPUBLICANS are ripping us off and lying to us and raising taxes and keeping us poor etc. etc. etc..... And then I am a REPUBLICAN and the DEMOCRAT are only for the poor and not the middle and upper class.

The other side effect of that trick is, is that people go to the voting booths every election like sheep thinking that their vote really makes a difference in this country one way or the other, because they really believe that their is a real difference between voting democrat or republican, the only difference is what party is going to end up with more of your money.

It goes on and on, and EVERYONE who falls for that trap, is instantly blinded by the fact that ALL of congress and the president no matter their/his political affiliation, is RIPPING YOU OFF and LYING to you and only out to line their/his own pockets, but all these people that fall into this, only believe that it is the OTHER party that is causing all of it.

And the other problem is the point you guys already made, getting elected to congress or the presidents office shouldn't be a winning powerball ticket, you shouldn't be able to hold public office for a few years and live like Oprah or Bill Gates the rest of your days (and while your in office for that matter). Because how can you expect someone to care about your plight to pay the light bill, that doesn't have not one single care in the world, monetarily speaking at least.

Plus they don't have to worry about job security, because by the time they have served a couple of terms in office, they are set for life anyways, because even if by some unreal chance they are the most honest politician on earth, they are still going to get a MASSIVE pension and health care benefits most rich people can't even dream of.

So what real motivation do they have to give a rats ass about you or what you think or want, they already have your money, and your votes already got them in office.

Now do I have an ultimate solution to this problem, no. If I did I would probably be rich or killed off by congress to shut me up (LOL) but seriously, the best solution would be to make being a congressmen pay about what the average factory supervisor makes, you don't want them dirt poor because then they really would be scandalous and trying to rip you off, but you don't want they filty stinkin' rich like they are now either. Thats my political rant for the evening, thank you, good night.

[Water Warrior 2]

I have a theory that would make politicians tow the line for the taxpayer. I don't want to put it into writing because there might be a big black SUV circling the block waiting to run me down if I do.

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[jonathan180iq]

I have a theory that would make politicians tow the line for the taxpayer. I don't want to put it into writing because there might be a big black SUV circling the block waiting to run me down if I do.

Aw, C'mon! Let's hear it.

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[music man]

How would that help? The money a congressman makes isn't enough to make you rich for life as described above. The money that I believe you are speaking of is not salary but maybe kick backs, campaign money or illegal payoffs. Cutting the salary just makes it more likely that the average honest person would not want the job.

The average congressman makes 169,000 per year. They have to maintain two households and can be fired every two years. Everyone is yelling in their ears all the time about what they want and why can't they get it. They have to deal with death threats and some get shot like Gabby Giffords. Would you be willing to stand in front of a crowd of thousands and express your veiws after those death threats have come in?

It ain't no picnic. For the most part, I have found those running our government to be honest hard working people who disagree with each other alot.



Why do they "have to maintain two households". They could commute back and forth to work on a subway or bus just like their constituents do, how much of a difference do you think that would make in their decision making processes if they had to come down and rub elbows with the working stiffs everyday and every night when they went to and from work. And you just made more of my point for me, How many people do you know that can "maintain two households", hell it takes every single penny me and my wife have to "maintain" one household.

And true their "salary" isn't all that huge, but consider that they don't really live off that salary, every plane ride they go on, every car ride they take (whether its personal business or congressional business) is paid for by you the taxpayer, not to mention they don't have to pay for the other things me and you have to pay for everyday, and on top of that, they get all the things you mentioned, Kick backs, campaign money that they line their pockets with, etc, etc.
Add to that the fact that if you are going to pay me 169,000 dollars a year and take care of virtually every single living expense I have including health care out the ying yang, I would call that Living very, very well indeed. And throw in a retirement package for my few years of service that would make your 401K buckle at the knees and I would stand in front of anyone and express my views and risk taking a bullet, because lets face it, how many congressmen and presidents have actually been shot, or even shot at, compared to how many have served in those offices, I will take those odds any day of the week, I promise you, me and you have an astronomically better chance of actually getting shot just checking our mail then any president or congressmen out there.


Saying that "cutting the salary would make it more likely that an honest person would not want the job" is ridiculous, so you think that if you owned a business, the more money you offered to fill a position, the more likely it is that person will be honest? Come on you can't be serious?

And yeah they can get fired every two years, you and me can get fired every second of everyday. Imagine if you got hired by a company and they signed a deal with you that you could promise to do all this work they wanted you to do, but once they hired you, you didnt really "have" to follow through with any of it and you would still have this great paying job for two solid years, and they would pay all of your expenses and health care and retirement to boot, you know how many jobs would never get accomplished if we all got deals like that when we got a job?

Some people may not agree, but in the great argument of the have's and the have not's the person described above is a have, and the average american citizen is a have not. How many ex-congressmen have you seen working construction, or slingin' burgers at Mcdonalds after they "retire", now compare that to how many 75-80 year old men and women you see working full time shifts at Wal-mart, long after they supposedly "retired".

Lets hear the members who are willing chime in on this one question, how many of you have anywhere near the income level or benefits package and perks packages described above.

So anytime the person who is deciding how you live and what laws you have to live by and what taxes you have to pay etc... lives WELL BEYOND the means of the VAST MAJORITY of the people he/she is deciding that for, then you are always going to have a very serious problem.

[mrlmd1]

Like I've said before, there should be term limits, like maybe to 4 or 6 years at most, no retirement benefits for life, the same health care everybody else gets (Medicare only), return to the world when you leave, thank you for your service, now goodbye. And you cannot be a lobbyist when your term is up.

[jonathan180iq]

I have to agree, here. 100%

Every time the issue of taxes on the wealthy are raised (and raised by people already in politics, mind you) people get all balled up a tissy and start yelling about punishing the wealthy or the lower class taking a free ride on the backs of hard-working Americans who have earned a better living or whatever....

How many of us actually even come close to $170,000 per year? They usually talk about raising them on people who make more than $250,000 per year and then they yell even louder. I haven't made that much money in a combined 6 years of work. (I don't remember my pay scales from jobs prior to that.) And while I don't know the demographics of this board as well as I probably should, I'll wager that everyone of you guys is about in the same boat as me, give or take $10K per year.

Do the math for yourself. How long would it take you to earn $250,000? Or Even $170,000 for that matter?

And is a progressive tax rate a punishment on the wealthy? Will an extra $8,000 off their bottom line really stymie economic growth and cause society as we know it to come crashing to a halt? No, it will not.

Raising taxes on those who are already fighting just to keep their heads above water will, however, result in some pretty massive uprisings. And while I know this is a conversation about Politicians and what not, let's talk about that group of politicians that want to institute a flat tax, because that would be more "fair".

If you make $250,000 per year and get taxed @ 10% across the board, you're looking at $25,000 per year in taxes paid. Pretty big number.
Let's say you're like everyone else, and you make around $35,000 per year. You'll be paying $3,500 per year. Very complicated math....
That looks pretty good on paper, except that the effective tax rate for the lower income earner was previously somewhere around 6% and they were already having problems affording life. The effective rate of the higher earner was previously around 26% and they were having no trouble at all.

So is it really "fair" to increase taxes on those who are struggling, while dramatically lowering taxes for those who have relatively no problem affording daily "necessities"? That's no more fair than a Politician speeding while on their way to a meeting in Congress and running over a pedestrian and having no responsibility whatsoever for the crime. It's no more fair than giving yourself a huge bonus as your company crumbles, only to have the government pay off your debt as long as you promise to do better next time and pay back some of that bailout money. It's no more fair than firing thousands of employees and closing hundreds of plants across the nation while you garner billions in profits and set record breaking 3rd quarter numbers.

When will it be our turn?

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[jonathan180iq]

The thing is, I don't necessarily have a problem with the current tax code.
Is it a little complicated? Sure it is, if you never pay attention to it and if it's never taught in schools (which it isn't)

But to have a progressive tax code, you have to be a little more complicated than 9-9-9. (Just as example)
And since it's something that every working American has to deal with every year of their life from 18 until death, I don't understand why people don't know more about it.

They think it's some giant complicated trap simply because their only involvement with it consists of paying an H&R Block representative a certain amount of money and being surprised by the outcome of either "PAY" or "REFUND". If that's the extent of their experience, I can see why it would look like a giant conspiratorial racquet.

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