NEW! STA-BIL® Ethanol Treatment.

[blaine]

STA-BIL Ethanol Treatment helps remove water, protects against corrosion, and cleans fuel injectors, carburetors, and intake valves to keep the fuel system free of gum and varnish and deposits. Perfect for use in your everyday driving vehicle, such as your car, truck, SUV or mini-van, and also great for your small gasoline powered equipment -- lawnmowers, chainsaws, weed wackers, snow blowers, snowmobiles, etc. Recommended to be used at every fill up to keep your vehicle and equipment running smoothly year-round.

http://s3.postimage.org/4y53eghw/ethanol4oz.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/)
:2tup: :)

[jonathan180iq]

These have been popping up all over the place. I had a guy at Wal-Mart swear up and down that this additives were necessary for proper running of my new chainsaw...

Uh, I've never had a problem before. Why start paying for stuff now.

I don't think there is any question that I'm one of the people that prefer straight gasoline to e10/ethanol blends. But I really don't see the point in using these "ethanol stabilizers. If you don't run an engine for so long that you need these types of things, then you aren't using it the vehicle/device/equipment enough. (granted, not using a mower in the winter is a little different.)

[Gz Rider]

...

[mole2]

These have been popping up all over the place. I had a guy at Wal-Mart swear up and down that this additives were necessary for proper running of my new chainsaw...

Uh, I've never had a problem before. Why start paying for stuff now.

I don't think there is any question that I'm one of the people that prefer straight gasoline to e10/ethanol blends. But I really don't see the point in using these "ethanol stabilizers. If you don't run an engine for so long that you need these types of things, then you aren't using it the vehicle/device/equipment enough. (granted, not using a mower in the winter is a little different.)

I guess you've never had to store your equipment for an extended period of time such as winter. Do you buy your fuel and store some as in a 5 gallon can that takes you a month or more to use? I stabilize all my fuel except for my everyday car. I would fill my boat up at the end of the season (so no condensation forms) and stabilize it. I don't need 85 gallons of phase separated fuel. I add stabil every time I fill my bike up. You never know what may happen that you can't ride for an extended period of time. In reference to my boat, I had one year where I hurt my back and couldn't take the pain of the deck movement. That fuel went from September of 2005 to April of 2007 since the boat wasn't used and it was just fine. Stabil cleans so it will keep the jets clean and prevent gum buildup in the float chamber. It will keep fuel injectors clean. I don't leave home without it. :biggrin:

:)

[birdmove]

Well, I used Stabil in a Craftsman riding lawn mower and a brand new Kymco People 150. It doesn't say it's a special ethanol formulae, but in the description on the back says it'll stabilize gas with ethanol in it for 12 months. I had problems with both the above engines. The mower was due to the tip of the needle valve coming off, so I'll give that one the benefit of the dought. The tip was made of "Viton" (whatever that is). This caused the crankcase, combustion chamber etc to fill with gasoline. I tore it down and fixed it.
The scooter, after storage, started but would run for 30 seconds and die, and wouldn't take throttle. I believed the pilot jet had plugged. I tore this down and fixed it by using guitar strings (high E and B strings) to push through the tiny orifices, and blowing out with compressed air. Afterwards both units run fine.
The problem is that the ethanol makes this modern crap they sell as gasoline break down much faster than non-ethanol gas. Stabil used to work on non-eth gas quite well. I hear this over and over again. Ethanol is causing all sorts of carb and fuel pump problems. I should be fine from here out on my stuff because we now live full time at our place and will be running our stuff on a regular basis.

But these days people are having plugged carb jets from way less sitting that 10-20+ years ago. I've been riding since about 1962 and, yeah, jets would get plugged occasionally. But almost always the bike had sat for often years. And I've fixed them when they were so bad that the deposits in the carb and jets looked like that blueish califlower you get on car battery cables that have been leaking acid for years.

From what I know about ethanol it's a scam anyway. You have 10% ethanol-so you should be using 90% of the gas you'd use without ethanol--right? But the ethanol/gas mix produces less horsepower, so you have to use more throttle to compensate and get the same results. So-are we really using less gas by cutting it with ethanol?? I dought it.
The car/motorcycle/lawn mower/boat, etc repair shops love the crap. They are repairing carbs and making good money doing it. And it's not like it's difficult work or hard to diagnose. I new my riding mower was a needle valve and/or seat problem. I knew my Kymco People 150 was a plugged pilot jet.

I guess the answer is 1. don't figure on any gas stabilizer working any more, and 2. if you store your gas engine powered gizmo make sure the gas tank and float bowl are empty. So-what do we do with all the gas we have to drain from our stuff?

jon

[Water Warrior 2]

This year when the bikes are parked for the winter I will be adding fuel stabilizer and filling the tanks with Chevron 94 octane with no added ethanol. Seems like a good preventative measure.
Never had problems in the past with seasonal engines but then there wasn't much ethanol in the past.

[birdmove]

I hadn't had the problem either, but then, the last two winters I rode straight through, so the bikes never sat for long. That was in western Wa. State. I won't be storing my motorcycles in our new home either. Year round riding will be a cinch .

Jon

[jonathan180iq]

These have been popping up all over the place. I had a guy at Wal-Mart swear up and down that this additives were necessary for proper running of my new chainsaw...

Uh, I've never had a problem before. Why start paying for stuff now.

I don't think there is any question that I'm one of the people that prefer straight gasoline to e10/ethanol blends. But I really don't see the point in using these "ethanol stabilizers. If you don't run an engine for so long that you need these types of things, then you aren't using it the vehicle/device/equipment enough. (granted, not using a mower in the winter is a little different.)

I guess you've never had to store your equipment for an extended period of time such as winter. Do you buy your fuel and store some as in a 5 gallon can that takes you a month or more to use? I stabilize all my fuel except for my everyday car. I would fill my boat up at the end of the season (so no condensation forms) and stabilize it. I don't need 85 gallons of phase separated fuel. I add stabil every time I fill my bike up. You never know what may happen that you can't ride for an extended period of time. In reference to my boat, I had one year where I hurt my back and couldn't take the pain of the deck movement. That fuel went from September of 2005 to April of 2007 since the boat wasn't used and it was just fine. Stabil cleans so it will keep the jets clean and prevent gum buildup in the float chamber. It will keep fuel injectors clean. I don't leave home without it. :biggrin:

:)

Well, like I said, a lawnmower is different but I don't have any boats and I use my car of my bike often enough year-round that I have never had to bother with Sta-bil or anything like that. Even in my lawnmowers, I prep them for winter with an oil change a gas fill-up and a good bath. Even then, they don't sit THAT long, since I'll use them to mulch leaves or whatever in the downtime.

That being said, is an ethanol specific Sta-bil even necessary since just about 100% of the gas that everyone has been using for the last 10 years or so is an ethanol blend and regular sta-bil seem to be working well for everyone?

[Gz Rider]

...

[jonathan180iq]

This year when the bikes are parked for the winter I will be adding fuel stabilizer and filling the tanks with Chevron 94 octane with no added ethanol. Seems like a good preventative measure.
Never had problems in the past with seasonal engines but then there wasn't much ethanol in the past.

Be sure that you're getting the fuel you think you are getting.
A lot of gas stations around here started advertising non-ethanol fuel simply because their supplier was Chevron.
If you check out Chevron's "Fuel School" web pages, you'll see that they make oxygenated fuel using Ethanol just like everyone else...

http://www.chevron.com/products/tips/fu ... =15&cID=21 (http://www.chevron.com/products/tips/fuel-school/answers.aspx?aID=15&cID=21)

And since you are in the GWN, I figured this applied to you and the other Canucks more than most.

[Water Warrior 2]

This year when the bikes are parked for the winter I will be adding fuel stabilizer and filling the tanks with Chevron 94 octane with no added ethanol. Seems like a good preventative measure.
Never had problems in the past with seasonal engines but then there wasn't much ethanol in the past.

Be sure that you're getting the fuel you think you are getting.
I think I did. After running a couple tanks with increasing octane ratings with Ethanol and feeling no difference or hearing no change in the engine note I tried the 94 octane without Ethanol. This was with the Ranger 4.0 V6. There was a real difference in performance and engine noise. The truck ran quieter with an increase in power across the RPM range. The increase in torque allowed me to stay in 5th rather than downshift to 4th on longer steep grades.
I think the Ethanol addition is nothing more than a giant scam to make somebody richer than they need to be.

[alantf]

After what I keep reading, I just thank the lord that we don't have ethanol over here. Is it added to make the air cleaner? because if it is, it's certainly a scam. There are pollution monitors in all the big towns, over here, & they all show that the air quality is good, even with the traffic congestion that we suffer.

[jonathan180iq]

At first it was praised as a good idea that was a great deal for farmers and a head nod to the Environmentalists all at the same time. Ethanol blended fuel (or any oxygenate for that matter) reduces carbon monoxide emissions and cleans up a couple of other nasty things that come out of the tail pipe. It was also a boost for corn and grain farmers who received a subsidy for growing the stuff at a time when they weren't making much for their harvest. And it was intended to reduce dependence on foreign oil, ever so slightly.

But now that a lot of time has passed, and we have seen the project in action over many years, the project has shown that there is a decrease in fuel economy as well as a decrease in food production as a whole. The ethanol debacle is a good part of what is causing food prices all over the world to increase. People who used to grow food for a living can make more $$ buy earning the subsidy by producing inedible corn to be made into a fuel blend. It's just silly to think that we are throwing our food into gas tanks all in the name of reduce CO emissions.... and I'm one of the whacko nut jobs that thinks reduced emissions are a good thing. But if it comes at the expense of our fuel economy (which makes us pay more for a gas blend that doesn't get us as far as it used to) and causes food shortages and food price increases all over the world... what are we thinking by continuing this program. On top of all that, we are forced to buy more foreign oil because the gas that we DO have doesn't go the same amount of miles as gas without ethanol. So we're driving shorter distances and having to fill up more often. When you start breaking it down, it's insane that we still do this.

I don't blame the farmers at all. If I was a farmer and I got paid extra to produce that crunchy nugget of gold, I would too. It would make the most sense to my family. Why don't we just remove the fuel corn subsidy and pay farmers for what they really do... grow food?

We also tout Brazil as being a model for us possibly. Brazil makes most of their own fuel by harvesting cane sugar and turning the byproduct into ethanol. I think the whole country runs on E-85. Brazil also has a pretty big food shortage problem. They're blowing their food out the tailpipe.

[Gz Rider]

...

[jonathan180iq]

We they first announced that we were getting the Smart, I was thrilled. I assumed, of course, that we would get the 65 MPG turbo diesel city car that is available in Europe. In stead, all we got was a lousy go-kart. Actually, I'll bet a Briggs motor in that thing would get better mileage than the one they gave us.... Freakin' US auto market ruins everything.

And while motorcycle emissions are dirtier than car emissions, (our PPM is higher in most categories) we exhaust so little of the nasty stuff that it really doesn't matter.

Let's say a bike spits out 6 PPM of a particular pollutant per gallon of gasoline. And the car only spits our 2 PPM of the same pollutant.
But the car burns through 3 times the amount of gas as the bike, assuming 20+ MPG for the car and 60+ MPG for the bike.

Over 100 miles the car will have exhausted that 2-PPM FIVE times, while the bike will have done it 1.667 times.

So which is more a more polluting vehicle?

2-PPM x 5 = 10 total contaminants.
6-PPM x 1.667 = 10.002 total contaminants per 100 miles.

So is the bike dirtier than the car? Yes.... by .002
Even if you expand that out to 15,000 miles per year, the difference is still only .3

*This is an extremely simplified response showing how cars and bike pollute just about the same amount.
Actual pollutant information can be found @ www.fueleconomy.gov (http://www.fueleconomy.gov)

[alantf]

On the subject of cars - we've got a 1400cc Citroen C3. Great fuel economy on the lowest grade petrol. Able to carry 5 people plus luggage. Cruises comfortably at 80mph+ on the autopista. Low maintenance costs. How many people in America would admit that they've got a car with a smaller engine than some of the bikes on this site? :)

[jonathan180iq]

I could probably do an entire thread on the awesome Euro cars that we don't get.... You guys suck :P

My first car was a 1000cc 1994 Geo Metro Coupe 3cyl. My 50cc scooter would out run it, but it was the smallest engine around for a while.

[Gz Rider]

...

[jonathan180iq]

Yeah. I used to laugh a Prius owners as I passed them in my 1994 POS.

1994 POS = 45 MPG
2010 Toyota Hybrid Electric Bling = 45 MPG

Someone is not doing something right.

[birdmove]

I also had a three cylinder Geo Metro two door hatchback and manual transmission. That waqs the best car I ever owned. Drove it for 160,000 miles. Totally easy to change oil and filter, tuneup, etc. The sum total of problems? The muffler rusted through at about 120,000 miles. Mine AVERAGED 54 miles per US gallon. It was the cheapest car of it's day, as I think the real POS Yugo had dissapeared by then.
Bring back that little car at a reasonable price and it would sell like crazy.

jon

[jonathan180iq]

No doubt about it. It was hands down my favorite car.
We don't need all of the fancy accessories that we have now-a-days.
Just give us a cheap to operate and own 4 seater beater with a good warranty and watch it take off.

[Water Warrior 2]

If you T-bone a Smart car with it's short wheel base the wheels actually will take up a lot of the force upon impact. That said, I still wouldn't have one. They aren't cheap to buy and the wonderful little turbo-D is no longer imported here as few people wanted it.
As we lean towards Hybrids more and more everyday, what is the overall cost ? Environmentally they are expensive to build and use up large amounts of resources. There are a lot of smaller IC engines that equal or better their carbon footprint being put into new cars right now.
Shortly after the Civic Hybrid came out some one determined the average new owner would need to keep the car 7 years to reach the break even point of the guy next door with a regular Civic. I drive less than the average driver so there would be no savings and no advantage to me. A real Eco Car should start saving you money the day you buy it. Yeah, I do want instant gratification for my money.
With the advances being made with IC engines there is no point to a Hyrid and the overall cost. Take a good look at a 2012 Ford Focus, not overly expensive and well built. Gas mileage almost equal to my 650 Vstrom and I don't need ATGATT. Looked at them but won't test drive one. I just might like one too much. :lol:

[jonathan180iq]

Yeah, a lot new cars are coming out and they have far surpassed my expectation as far as fuel economy goes.
Several of the new Fords, A couple of Chevys, and not to mention what Honda has been offering for years and what Hyundai is catching up to... the IC cars will be overtaking them soon, if all they can offer is 45 mpg.

Speaking of Hyundai, that reminds me of the other Korea manufacturer, Kia.

I saw a 2011 Kia Optima SX today and... I gotta say... that thing is on top of my wish list.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2011-Kia-Optima-SX-Turbo-Placement-626x382.jpg

[alantf]

Ford Focus, Gas mileage almost equal to my 650 Vstrom

Apparently it's something to do with the Zetec engine. Don't know what this is, but ford were bragging about this "revolutionary" engine when the Focus first came out.

When I was in England, I asked a friend of mine (who was a used car salesman) what, in his opinion, was the best small car with regard to build quality, running costs etc. He recommended the Renault Clio.

[alantf]

that reminds me of the other Korea manufacturer, Kia.



My wife's sister & her husband (in England) won't drive anything but Kia these days. They reckon they're the best cars they've ever had, and they always used to drive top of the range Fords.

[5th_bike]

we've got a 1400cc Citroen C3.
Aah... Citroen, I'd get one in a hartbeat. I had 2 2CVs, an Ami and a GS, successively... Wish you could get them in the US. Com-for (frenchish for comfort). :cool:

On the other hand, my little Saturn is now over 200,000 miles and still going strong. :rawk:

PS yes the ethanol addition is just a scam. Gasoline used to be composed of just carbon and hydrogen. Now they add oxygen to it, in other words, it's already partially burnt when you get it. "Watered down" would be another appropriate expression for it.

[blaine]

On the other hand, my little Saturn is now over 200,000 miles and still going strong. :rawk:

I also have a Saturn.It has 284,000 km on it.It works great,burns no oil,and gets great mileage.
:2tup: :)

[5th_bike]

I also have a Saturn.It has 284,000 km on it.It works great,burns no oil,and gets great mileage.
:2tup: :)
Yes it's an excellent car. That's probably why GM bought it, stopped making the good little ones, and then cut their throat.

[jonathan180iq]

http://evmuseum.org/ev1_images/ev1dwg1.jpg
:poorbaby:

[Gz Rider]

...

[Water Warrior 2]

I sure hope that is an old concept car that will never go into production. The only good thing about it is the low drag co-efficient.

[5th_bike]

I sure hope that is an old concept car that will never go into production. The only good thing about it is the low drag co-efficient.
No no, that's the EV1, an electric car that was produced in the 90s. It is the main subject of the movie "Who killed the electric car". Go see it.

Short story, a couple hundred people got to ride this car in the late 90s I think, in California, and they all loved it, it ran great, hardly any maintenance needed. But they had it leased from GM who successively killed it. Under great protest from the riders. Who's to blame? big oil (less sales); the existing car industry (long life); the garage industry (less work); politicians jumping on the still-a-fantasy hydrogen bandwagon (hysteria); and a couple others.

There are only a few left, in museums. None of them in running condition, GM paralyzed them. And crushed all others.

[Water Warrior 2]

Oh, that one. I seem to remember some good things about it. The folks who had them were very happy with them. I doubt they would be great in a colder climate but in Cali they would be dandy. Quite possibly it could have evolved into a real dandy electric car that would work for a lot of consumers.

[Gz Rider]

...

[Water Warrior 2]

Hmm. Maybe we should just make more fuel efficient cars and keep burning fossil fuels.

[5th_bike]

Quite possibly it could have evolved into a real dandy electric car that would work for a lot of consumers.
It already *had* evolved into that, the people that used it loved it, there was a waiting list for it, and the upgraded version with the (then) new NiMH batteries had a much larger range. And why wouldn't it work in a cold climate? just use some of the juice to warm up the interior.

Anyway, there is now a new movie by the same director, about the return of the electric car. All well end well, let's hope.

[blaine]

Kind of reminds me of the 1948 Tucker that was so evolved that the government & the "Big 3" felt that it had to be squashed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Tucker_Sedan
:) :cool:

[Gz Rider]

...

[jonathan180iq]

This is as close as I will ever get to my dream car....

http://i53.tinypic.com/sonuae.jpg
(You better believe I touched it)

http://i51.tinypic.com/28gshkw.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/2ze9tfq.jpg
Photos taken at the Tellus Science Museum in N. Georgia.


All of them...100%.... were removed from the leasee's custody, taken to a scrap lot out in California and crushed, against the wishes and intent of the leasee's to pay off the remainder of the loans and maintain the cars on their own without the support of GM. The few that exist in museums are void of all drive systems and anything that could possibly be copied so as to remake the cars...

And they swear up and down that it was not a conspiracy.

http://www.evnut.com/images/ev1/ev1_gra ... crush6.jpg (http://www.evnut.com/images/ev1/ev1_grave/ev1_crush6.jpg)

Photo journal of the last day, including photos pre and post crushing.
http://www.evnut.com/ev1_crushed.htm