Start-up Problem

[bjrscj]

UPDATE:

So I checked the hose, and fuel came out just fine. So that's ruled out.

I didn't have all the tools to get the spark plug out, but I was able to start the bike. I pressed the starter while turning the throttle, and it managed to start. The problem is it would start to die as soon as I let off the throttle. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a spark plug become unnecessary once the chain reaction is started? I am under the impression that the explosions in the engine and the heat generated there mean the spark plug is only used to start the bike up. If that's correct, it seems like the carburetor is the next logical step in the chain.

If it is the carb, do you think getting gasoline additive would work if I can get the fuel to pump through again as I was able to tonight? Or do you think it would just be a waste of money and I should manually take it apart? Thanks again for all your insight.


ORIGINAL:

I've got a 2003 and it's been running great. However, after the weekend, I went to start up the bike, and it won't start. It turns very strongly, but it won't catch. It's sounds like the engines fine but the gas won't ignite and give that nice low rumble (well, low compared to just turning). Is this a starter issue? My only guess is that it rained for a few days and I didn't have a chance to cover my bike. Could that even affect it at all? That's the only thing out of the ordinary that happened recently. Thanks for your help!

[Gz Rider]

...

[alantf]

First, check the vacuum hose. It's a 1/8 inch(axp) hose that goes from the carb to the fuel petcock. It gets old cracks and falls off. If it's cracked or off it stops fuel flow instantly.



One way to check the vacuum hose is to try starting in "prime". If the bike runs o.k. it's definitely a vacuum hose problem, as prime doesn't need a vacuum for fuel to flow. :2tup:

BTW, let it stand, in prime, for 3 or 4 seconds before trying to start, to give it time to fill the carb.

[bjrscj]

I tried starting on reserve, and nothing happened. I also tried starting with the choke, and nothing happened. I assume that's what you meant when you said starting with "prime," but if it's not, please let me know. Every few tries I heard a low rumble, as if some gas ignited, but then it died out. I'm assuming there is a clog, like you said. I suppose I'll have to take it into the shop - unless you have any tips for fixing the problem myself.

Thanks for all your advice. I appreciate it.

[music man]

I tried starting on reserve, and nothing happened. I also tried starting with the choke, and nothing happened. I assume that's what you meant when you said starting with "prime," but if it's not, please let me know. Every few tries I heard a low rumble, as if some gas ignited, but then it died out. I'm assuming there is a clog, like you said. I suppose I'll have to take it into the shop - unless you have any tips for fixing the problem myself.

Thanks for all your advice. I appreciate it.


Nope "prime" is a whole other setting, there are three settings on the petcock. On, Res and Pri. The Pri is for prime obviously, set it on that one and crank it over for several seconds and see what happens.

[Gz Rider]

...

[bjrscj]

Yah, I was actually just looking at the manual now. I appreciate that advice. It's a great resource. I am very new to the motorcycle world, and I do not have much mechanical experience at all. That being said, I'd like to learn, and I don't have much choice due to finances anyway. So the service manual is a great resource (although the pictures aren't that clear).

I'm going to check the prime idea and sparkplugs when I get home today. But I guess I've got one last question. If it runs on prime, the hose is obviously the issue, since the carb would be functioning. But if priming doesn't work, it could very well be the hose, but it could also still be the carb. Can I pretty much guarantee it's the carb if I don't see any cracking on the hose, or is there any way to tell 100% for sure that the hose is good before I take apart the carb?

Thanks again for all your help. It's a very overwhelming thing to me, and I appreciate your patience and insight.

[blaine]

You can disconnect the fuel hose at the carb & turn the petcock to "pri" to see if you got flow down to the carb.If you have no flow,you have a issue with the hose or the petcock.
:cool: :)

[mrlmd1]

Are you using the choke properly? Even in hot weather you may need some choke to first start up the bike in the morning after it sits for a while.

[bjrscj]

I always use the choke. Even in hot weather I find that the bike doesn't really stay started without it if it's been sitting for a few hours.

[jonathan180iq]

There is also the possibility that the kickstand kill switch is malfunctioning. These are known to go bad.
Try staring the bike in neutral. The kickstand switch doesn't kill the bike unless it's in gear. (Not just pull in the clutch. Actually put the bike in neutral and see what happens.)

Also, I know it may seem like an insult, but make sure you haven't thrown the main kill switch.
I once had someone call me out the their work because they couldn't get the bike started. Turned out they flipped the kill switch and just didn't notice. :lol:

Keep us posted.

[bjrscj]

There is also the possibility that the kickstand kill switch is malfunctioning. These are known to go bad.
Try staring the bike in neutral. The kickstand switch doesn't kill the bike unless it's in gear. (Not just pull in the clutch. Actually put the bike in neutral and see what happens.)

Also, I know it may seem like an insult, but make sure you haven't thrown the main kill switch.
I once had someone call me out the their work because they couldn't get the bike started. Turned out they flipped the kill switch and just didn't notice. :lol:

Keep us posted.

Thanks for the advice. I did put it in neutral, and I also tried starting it with the stand up. I also tried the killswitch. In fact, the bike won't even turn without the killswitch on, and it is cranking. It's just not catching and holding. At this time, I think my best bet is to check the hoses, as I feel like I've exhausted the other routes. However, while others said rain shouldn't affect anything, when I was looking through the service manual it mentioned drying off spark plugs. We had a pretty wet weekend, so I'm hoping it's as simple as a spark plug. I just hope it's not the carburetor. I'm open to any advice you all have - even if you think it's insulting. I'm not great mechanically, and I'd rather have a broken ego than a broken bike.

[alantf]

Knowing that the carb is the Achilles heel of the gz, you can bet your bottom dollar that you'll eventually find that it's the problem. :cry:

[jonathan180iq]

It shouldn't take 30 seconds to pull the spark plug boot and remove the spark plug. Even the factory tool is good enough if you don't have a set of your own.

If there is any condensation in there causing your bike to not spark, you'll know it.
Also, if spark is the issue, then you should also see a fairly wet spark plug that smells like gas.

Spark Plug How-to:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1715 (http://gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1715)

[bjrscj]

UPDATE:

So I checked the hose, and fuel came out just fine. So that's ruled out.

I didn't have all the tools to get the spark plug out, but I was able to start the bike. I pressed the starter while turning the throttle, and it managed to start. The problem is it would start to die as soon as I let off the throttle. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a spark plug become unnecessary once the chain reaction is started? I am under the impression that the explosions in the engine and the heat generated there mean the spark plug is only used to start the bike up. If that's correct, it seems like the carburetor is the next logical step in the chain.

If it is the carb, do you think getting gasoline additive would work if I can get the fuel to pump through again as I was able to tonight? Or do you think it would just be a waste of money and I should manually take it apart? Thanks again for all your insight.

[blaine]

You need spark to fire the mixture in the cylinder every 4th stroke.Hence the name "4 stroke engine" Intake,compression,Power (fire),exhaust.You should try some SeaFoam or berrymans b12,before you take the carb apart.
:) :cool:

[jonathan180iq]

Look for your idle adjustment knob and turn it just a bit to raise the idle so that the bike stays running without you having to hold the throttle.

You can do this with your fingers IIRC.

Remove the seat, crack the throttle open so you can start the bike and then slowly adjust your idle speed until the bike will run without you doing anything.

Once you get a properly running bike, we can work some issues out to get it back to the way it was.

And for future reference, every explosion is sparked by the spark plug. All engines work this way. From your lawnmower to your car. Even diesels have glow plugs. Boom, piston down, exhaust, intake, compression-spark-boom, repeat.

[alantf]

Remove the seat, crack the throttle open so you can start the bike and then slowly adjust your idle speed

??????????????? Why remove the seat? The idle knob is the big white knob BELOW the seat, that you can get to while you're sat on the seat. :2tup:

[jonathan180iq]

Uhhh....it's been awhile. :blush:

If you can access that white knob easy-peasy, then don't worry about removing the seat.

I guess I'm getting accustomed to my bike, where you have to remove almost all of the plastics/side covers in order to access any of the important stuff.

[mrlmd1]

Oldtimers disease setting in. :) :tongue:

[Water Warrior 2]

Oldtimers disease setting in. :) :tongue:
I used to know what that was but now I'm not sure. :lol:

[bjrscj]

I think I'm in deep now...

I went to the store and got SeaFoam today. I got home and tried to change the spark plug, but the spark plug socket I borrowed wasn't the right size. So I decided to put the SeaFoam in anyway to see if that helped, since I couldn't get to the spark plug. Well, I put some in, but not too much, since I have a small tank and am only sitting on half a tank of gas. I dumped some in, started the bike up, and it started immediately (which makes me think the SeaFoam wasn't responsible for the initial kick, since it hadn't gone through yet).

I ran the bike for a minute and it sounded great. I shut the bike off, started to put the seat and everything back together. When I started the bike up about ten minutes later, it started great, so I decided to get my helmet and go fill the tank with gas. When I got back down, a bunch of smoke was coming from the engine. But that didn't seem like a big deal, since when I compared reviews of carb cleaners, those who used seafoam talked about how cool the smoke was that came out of the engines. But then everything hit the fan.

The engine died out. I saw a puddle under the engine. When I tried to start it up again, not only did it not start, but the cranking sounded very weak. In fact, when I pressed the starter, it drained power from the light. The headlight and the neutral light went off when I pressed the starter and the cranking died.

WHAT IS HAPPENING?!? I feel like the problems are just compounding. Any help you can give me is greatly appreciated.

[blaine]

STOP! If the puddle under the bike is fuel don't try to start it.It sounds like the needle stuck in the carb and flooded the engine & air box.If the engine is flooded with fuel,it can't turn over.Shut the petcock "off".You will need to drain & change the oil, and drain the air box.You will need a 18mm socket to remove the spark plug to replace it.The carb will need to be removed for a cleaning,so this doesn't happen again.
:) :cool:

[alantf]

.Shut the petcock "off"

There is no "off" on the gz petcock! Set it to "run". This, effectively, shuts it off, as it will only open with vacuum from the engine.

[bjrscj]

STOP! If the puddle under the bike is fuel don't try to start it.It sounds like the needle stuck in the carb and flooded the engine & air box.If the engine is flooded with fuel,it can't turn over.Shut the petcock "off".You will need to drain & change the oil, and drain the air box.You will need a 18mm socket to remove the spark plug to replace it.The carb will need to be removed for a cleaning,so this doesn't happen again.
:) :cool:

OK, I have a bunch of questions about this process if you don't mind answering them.

1. If the needle is stuck, it seems to be one of the problems. Does this needle need to be replaced or do I need to do anything to fix it?

2. When you say I am supposed to clean the carb, what exactly does that mean? I've looked at the service manual so I can get the carb off, but do I take the whole carb apart and clean every square inch, or is there a specific part I'm looking to clean?

3. While I have the carb off, is there any other maintenance I should do? When reading about SeaFoam, some people talked about replacing gaskets with its use. Do you recommend any service that would be beneficial? I figure I might as well do some things while it's apart.

4. I won't be able to get to this until Sunday. Is this something that will hurt the bike if it sits there for too long? If it can't wait, I might have to cancel some other plans so I can do it earlier.

Thanks for your help. I probably won't have anything new until next week, when I can take the carb apart.

[blaine]

If you install a new carb rebuild kit,a new needle will come with it.You need to take the carb off and dissemble it,for a complete cleaning.It will be fine till the weekend.The damage gets done if you try to start it.As I stated,new oil & filter drain & clean the air box & filter.I have used SeaFoam for years & have never replaced any gaskets because of it's use.Good luck.
:) :rawk:

[jonathan180iq]

Are you sure you didn't leave the bike in "PRI" position on the petcock?

[bjrscj]

Are you sure you didn't leave the bike in "PRI" position on the petcock?

Yes, the prime is not on, unfortunately. I wish I could say I didn't know and wish that was the problem.

I've been able to find a suggestion for the air filter (HIFLO-FILTRO:HAF-3503), but I only saw suggestions for carb rebuild kits from dealers. I don't have a Suzuki dealer very close to me, so does anyone have any suggestions as to getting one online? I got to here (http://motorcycle.motorcycle-superstore ... ild%20Kits (http://motorcycle.motorcycle-superstore.com/motorcycle/Carb%20Rebuild%20Kits)), but there are a lot of choices.

I'll double check the prime when I get home again just to make sure.

[blaine]

Yes, the prime is not on, unfortunately. I wish I could say I didn't know and wish that was the problem.

I've been able to find a suggestion for the air filter (HIFLO-FILTRO:HAF-3503), but I only saw suggestions for carb rebuild kits from dealers. I don't have a Suzuki dealer very close to me, so does anyone have any suggestions as to getting one online? I got to here (http://motorcycle.motorcycle-superstore ... ild%20Kits (http://motorcycle.motorcycle-superstore.com/motorcycle/Carb%20Rebuild%20Kits)), but there are a lot of choices.

I'll double check the prime when I get home again just to make sure.
That is a good air filter and much cheaper.If you did leave it on prime,it would simplify your problem somewhat.If you are careful when dissembling & cleaning the carb you can get by without a carb kit.pay particular attention to the needle & seat.just make sure everything is perfectly clean.
:cool:

[jonathan180iq]

Yeah. I was gonna say... I don't necessarily think you need a rebuild kit.
You just need a good thorough cleaning.

A similar scenario happened to someone recently;
Crankcase filled with fuel - HELP!!! - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4948&hilit=flooded+engine (http://gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4948&hilit=flooded+engine)

Maybe reading over this experience will you help you out.

I know it seems like a big deal when you look down and your bike is leaking fluid all over the place and you can't ride it or even get it started, but it really isn't that big of a deal.

I would wait until you have maybe 4-5 hours on Saturday and knock everything out at once. We even have handy guides to cover most of what you need to do. Some them aren't exact, but reading and looking at the photos should give you an idea of what's required:

How to change your oil: - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=566 (http://gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=566)

Spark plug access - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1715 (http://gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1715)

Needle Shim (Carb deconstruction details and some photo references) - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15 (http://gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15)

Service manual download - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2158 (http://gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2158)

If you get in a bind mid-job, PM me and I'll give you my phone number. Also, if you don't have any, this is a good time to buy yourself a nice tool set. The money you save by not taking it to a shop will more than pay for whatever tools you buy.

You'll get it knocked out,
Jonathan

[alantf]

drain & clean the air box & filter.

Don't forget to look under the bike. You'll find a tube with a plug in it, & a clip. This is the drain hose from the air box. Remove the clip, remove the plug, & let the tube drain. Replace the plug & clip. An essential part of routine maintenance too. :2tup:

[JWR]

drain & clean the air box & filter.

Don't forget to look under the bike. You'll find a tube with a plug in it, & a clip. This is the drain hose from the air box. Remove the clip, remove the plug, & let the tube drain. Replace the plug & clip. An essential part of routine maintenance too. :2tup:


That was a good catch alanf...
Alot of people never clean the drain.

[mrlmd1]

It sounds like your battery is drained so you probably have to charge it - on a 2 amp charger. The bike does not charge sitting at idle and you have depleted your battery.

Is the oil level high in your site glass? ( indicating gas has gotten into the oil and increased the volume). Pull the oil fill plug and smell it also. If the volume is way up and it smells of gas do not start it until you flush it out and change the oil and filter.

How much Seafoam did you add to the gas? The usual dose is 1 oz/gal, at most 2 if you want a high dose, so your smoking and engine dying could have been from a large overdose.

What is draining on the floor, is it gas? Then your float needle valve is not closing off properly and gas is overflowing out the carb. You can empty the carb by a drain screw on the bottom before you take it off if you choose to do so for cleaning.

If you let the bike sit for a while, like a day or two with the Seafoam in there, and you drained the carb, if you don't think your oil level is high or gas is in there, and you have charged up your battery, you might try and start it again. If you are still leaking gas out of the carb overflow drain, then you have to take it off and clean it out properly. And if you do get it running, you should change the oil, oil filter, air filter, anyway.

[jonathan180iq]

When I got back down, a bunch of smoke was coming from the engine. But that didn't seem like a big deal, since when I compared reviews of carb cleaners, those who used seafoam talked about how cool the smoke was that came out of the engines. But then everything hit the fan.


I didn't catch this part earlier.

Just so you know, when those guys talk about tons of smoke from using Seafoam, they are referring to treating the head. A lot people feed seafoam into the engine itself through a brake booster or something and get lots of white smoke out of the exhaust, which they claim is carbon burning off. ( I think any liquid in the engine is going to burn white and cloudy but whatever...) Simply using it as a fuel additive to clean your intake or carb should not cause that type of smoking.

I don't think anyone asked; What type of smoke was it? White? Blue? Did it smell like steam, oil, or something burned?

[bjrscj]

It sounds like your battery is drained so you probably have to charge it - on a 2 amp charger. The bike does not charge sitting at idle and you have depleted your battery.

Is the oil level high in your site glass? ( indicating gas has gotten into the oil and increased the volume). Pull the oil fill plug and smell it also. If the volume is way up and it smells of gas do not start it until you flush it out and change the oil and filter.

How much Seafoam did you add to the gas? The usual dose is 1 oz/gal, at most 2 if you want a high dose, so your smoking and engine dying could have been from a large overdose.

What is draining on the floor, is it gas? Then your float needle valve is not closing off properly and gas is overflowing out the carb. You can empty the carb by a drain screw on the bottom before you take it off if you choose to do so for cleaning.

If you let the bike sit for a while, like a day or two with the Seafoam in there, and you drained the carb, if you don't think your oil level is high or gas is in there, and you have charged up your battery, you might try and start it again. If you are still leaking gas out of the carb overflow drain, then you have to take it off and clean it out properly. And if you do get it running, you should change the oil, oil filter, air filter, anyway.

- It doesn't look like I have any more liquid when I look through the site glass.
- Since I don't have a fuel gauge, I guessed as to the amount. It's very possible I went over the recommendation.
- I thought the drainage is gas, but when I looked today, it looks like there are spots in the parking spot. Gas doesn't leave spots, to my knowledge, so it seems as though what leaked out was oil. Does oil mix with the gas so as to cause this issue?

I think I'll try draining the carb and air box this weekend when I have time. My battery seems to still have enough to turn the light on and get a little kick, so I may be able to start things without charging it. However, I'm just very nervous about trying to start it without cleaning out the carb and air box if they can get ruined. I'd rather not take the chance if you think they could be destroyed. Unfortunately I JUST replaced the oil and filter 200 miles ago, but oh well.


When I got back down, a bunch of smoke was coming from the engine. But that didn't seem like a big deal, since when I compared reviews of carb cleaners, those who used seafoam talked about how cool the smoke was that came out of the engines. But then everything hit the fan.


I didn't catch this part earlier.

Just so you know, when those guys talk about tons of smoke from using Seafoam, they are referring to treating the head. A lot people feed seafoam into the engine itself through a brake booster or something and get lots of white smoke out of the exhaust, which they claim is carbon burning off. ( I think any liquid in the engine is going to burn white and cloudy but whatever...) Simply using it as a fuel additive to clean your intake or carb should not cause that type of smoking.

I don't think anyone asked; What type of smoke was it? White? Blue? Did it smell like steam, oil, or something burned?

It was white/gray smoke.

Thanks again for all the help.

[mrlmd1]

Let's back up a minute -- Is your bike leaking anything or did you just park where there are spots on the ground? Is your bike wet underneath, dripping anything? Can you tell where it is coming from? Maybe you didn't leak anything. That smoke can be from the Seafoam.
Put some fresh gas in the tank- fill it.
Charge up the battery, put the petcock on RUN, use a little choke, no throttle, and see if it starts and runs.

[bjrscj]

There were no spots on the ground prior to me running it on seafoam. When the bike leaked, the spots were wet to the touch. Now that it's a day later, the spots are still there. I'm very certain the spots are from the bike. Unfortunately I won't be able to drain it or look at it in more detail until the weekend. I think I'm going to start with the recommendation to drain the bike, then try starting it. If it stalls out again, if I understand it correctly, it's probably the carb (the needle?), so I'll take it apart and clean it/replace parts. If you think I have something out of order, let me know.

[Gz Rider]

...

[jonathan180iq]

I think you're on the right path, but you do need to determine where the leak is coming form and what is actually leaking.

[bjrscj]

I got the carb off and I was actually surprised at how easy it all was. However, I didn't find anything that looked like it would be the cause of the problem in the carb. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get the float tank off, as one of the screws was stripped. But the rest of the carb looked like it was in great condition.

[attachment=8:7ynnym04]IMG_0034.JPG[/attachment:7ynnym04]

I've been rethinking whether or not the issue is the spark plug. I was able to get the spark plug out and it looked pretty nasty. When I checked my bike the last time, it was dark out, and somebody suggested that I left the petcock in the prime position. While I didn't do that, I do remember taking the fuel hose off to see if the issue was the vacuum hose, and some fuel may have come out then. If it was the spark plug and I primed the engine and gave it throttle while starting, is it possible I just flooded the engine and the problem isn't the carb? But that still wouldn't explain the smoke coming out of the engine.

Old Sparkplug: [attachment=7:7ynnym04]IMG_0038.JPG[/attachment:7ynnym04]

I did get a new sparkplug, but unfortunately the booklet at the store gave me the wrong plug reference. As you can see, while the plug I bought fits in, the other end doesn't fit in the cap.

[attachment=5:7ynnym04]IMG_0042.JPG[/attachment:7ynnym04]

I was going to check the air box, but I wasn't sure which hose it was. There is one that's at the very bottom of the motorcycle, which is connected to the carb, but the service manual seems to show it sitting up higher by the battery. Which is the correct hose to drain?

Finally, I think I did something pretty stupid. I have everything back together, but there's a hose that's sticking out and I can't figure out where it goes. From the diagram, it looks like the vacuum pump hose, but I don't see anything in the area where it looks like it should plug into. Any ideas? It's at the top left of the carb if you're looking at the bike from the left side.

[jonathan180iq]

1.) You won't be able to visually see the contaminant in the carb, if there is one. All it takes is a tiny piece of debris the right place.
Since you have the carb off, a quick tear down and some carb spray in the right places can do wonders. If you remove the top black plastic cover, make sure you are aware that there is a spring under there that can pop out. It's not under a ton of pressure. But just be aware of it. Slide all that stuff out, and then spray come carb cleaner in any and all holes that you can access. (The top plastic cover gives access to the needle)

IIRC, the float bowl screws are not pre-sunk. You can use a set of locking pliers to grab the heads and twist them free. That will allow you to access the main jets and pilot holes to clean them as well. It doesn't take too much spray. Just get the nozzle right up in there and blast away.

There may very well be nothing wrong with the carb, since we're still not able to narrow down your actual issue. But at least you'll know the carb is clean.

2.)As for the spark plug, you should be able to just clean off any residue that is on there and reinsert the old one while you wait for a new one. Clean the electrode and regap the thing and it should work like new. You can even spray the tip with some carb cleaner to make sure there isn't a layer or crud built up.

3.) The hose that you are going to drain from the air box should be the one that has a little plastic plug and a pressure clamp on it. Release the pressure clamp, pull the plug, and some oily gunk will come out. Reinsert the plug and drain that thing again every few months.

At this time, you can also pull the air filter cover, remove the air filter and visually inspect the inside of your airbox. Smelling oily/gassy is normal. But it shouldn't be half filled with liquid.

4.) As mentioned by others, now is a good time to charge up the battery, and do some other necessary maintenance. I would also check your throttle play, as described in the service manual, check your chain tension and air up the tires or anything else that you might have overlooked in the last couple of weeks/months.

Is some of this overkill for a starting problem? Maybe it is. But by the time you are finished with everything, you;ll have a maintenance free ride for the next good little while. I call them maintenance days, where I give just about every system on the bike a once over and catch up as needed. And there is no better time to do all of this stuff than while you already have it torn apart. And once you've done it the first time, you'll know how everything works and how to put it back together in no time at all.

-Jonathan

[bjrscj]

I still feel overwhelmed, but I do feel like I'm at least narrowing down the problems.

Today I cleaned the spark plug, cleaned the carb, checked the hoses, changed the gas, drained the air box, and got the battery charged.

When I went to start the bike, it was beautiful. It started up perfectly. But after I let it run for a little, the smoke came back, and there was a leak again. I shut it off so no more damage could be done, and I took pictures so I could show you what I saw.

The first picture shows where I think the leak is coming from. It's at the top front of the engine - there's a little compartment with two screws on it. There was moisture all over the place, as it was dripping and evaporating onto things. It was hard to tell exactly where it was coming from, but most of it looked like it was coming from here. It was dripping all over the front of the engine and exhaust, but it seems like the highest wet place is probably the best place to start for a source.

[attachment=2:3sowur7f]021.JPG[/attachment:3sowur7f]

This is another picture that points it out a little better.

[attachment=1:3sowur7f]022.JPG[/attachment:3sowur7f]

This is the right side of the engine (there wasn't any dripping on the left side, even though the stand causes it to lean that way). I think this is just from evaporation, but just showing what happened.

[attachment=0:3sowur7f]023.JPG[/attachment:3sowur7f]

[alantf]

That "little compartment" is the cover for the exhaust valves. Have you checked the valves for correct setting lately? Seems like it could be that the valves need adjustment.

[blaine]

I think the moisture your seeing is just the bike warming up.The plate with the two holes is for adjusting the valves,and is sealed with a o-ring.If there is a leak there,it will be oil,not moisture.Did you let the bike run to warm up,so the moisture would disappear,and then check for leaks?
:??: :)

[bjrscj]

I think the moisture your seeing is just the bike warming up.The plate with the two holes is for adjusting the valves,and is sealed with a o-ring.If there is a leak there,it will be oil,not moisture.Did you let the bike run to warm up,so the moisture would disappear,and then check for leaks?
:??: :)

I'm sorry I wasn't clear on what I saw in the "moisture." It definitely wasn't water. It was thicker/darker than gas, but not as dark as old oil or the gunk that came out of the air box drain. It was a light amber color (like bourbon).

I did let the bike run to warm up a bit, but then it started smoking a whiteish smoke. The last time that happened was before everything went dead. The last time I let it run it died out on its own - which didn't seem like the smartest thing to me. I thought I could do damage if I let it run like that - but I could definitely be wrong.

As far as seeing leaks, like I said, it looked like it was coming from that one place and dripping down the front/right of the engine. I didn't see any leaks that appeared to be coming from hoses - unless there is a fluid hose above the front part of the engine. All I saw were electrical wires above that.


** I have not checked the exhaust valve settings, but I will do that tomorrow morning. And just to make sure I understand what you're saying, I need to check the angle of the valves and their deflection (which is what the service manual sounds like it's saying). What exactly is deflection?

[blaine]

From your pictures I don't see anything that indicates a oil leak. If there is a leak it is likely coming from the valve adjustment cover or the valve cover on top of the engine.You need to wipe every clean and dry,start the bike & check for any oil leaks.When you adjust the valves,you are adjusting the space between the stem of the valve & the rocker.This job is quite involved and can be hard to do if you don't understand the basics of a 4 stroke engine.You could do serious damage that can ruin your engine.At this point I think you should concern yourself with the leak first.If you attempt to adjust the valves,the bike has to be overnight cold,before adjustment.I'm not trying to discourage you,I just don't to see you get in over your head.If you think you may want to tackle the valve adjustment,you should study this in depth:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5061&p=55006#p55006 (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5061&p=55006#p55006)
Also are you sure that it's white smoke you are seeing,and not steam from the engine warming up? :) :cool:

[blaine]

Quote:I've got a 2003 and it's been running great. However, after the weekend, I went to start up the bike, and it won't start. It turns very strongly, but it won't catch. It's sounds like the engines fine but the gas won't ignite and give that nice low rumble (well, low compared to just turning). Is this a starter issue? My only guess is that it rained for a few days and I didn't have a chance to cover my bike. Could that even affect it at all? That's the only thing out of the ordinary that happened recently:

I still think this is a problem that got escalated all because the bike got wet.
:) :cool:

[jonathan180iq]

You have obviously taken care of the hard starting issue, since, as you said, it fired up first time after all of your cleaning and maintenance.
That alone should make you pretty happy! Good job!

The light amber color has to be oil. Oil that drains back into the sump (the place where oil stays when it's not running) will look nasty and black like it's supposed to. But when thinning out by spread out over the rest of the engine can still look like the light amber color of clean oil.

There are only two liquids on this bike; gas and oil. There is nothing else that could be leaking except that. You know what gas looks like and smells like, so that leaves oil.

As mentioned by others, if your eyes are correct as to where the leak is coming from, you have a slight leak from under your valve cover.
Sounds like it's leaking out right there, dripping onto your headers and burning off. You could always take a 10mm socket and make sure those bolts are tight. Things work loose on a bike. An occasional snugging up is common place.

Finally, the little seepage that you have around that side black plug doesn't look like a big deal. Bikes will seep black gunk from time to time. That one looks pretty normal.

I would crank it up again, rev it a few good times to make sure it sounds normal, and then immediately take it out for a ride around the block. Don't drive too far away from the house, just in case. But you won't know if you really have an issue until you open her up a little bit.

To me it sounds like you've already taken care of the important part, which was the hard starting. And, like I said, Kudos for that!

Keep at it man. You're 90% of the way there.

[Gz Rider]

...

[bjrscj]

Well, I went to start the bike again this morning, and it wouldn't crank. The lights dimmed as I tried to start it, and it got weaker each time. I guess I'm getting a new battery. The guy who charged it yesterday told me it held a charge, but it might be bad - but he wasn't sure because he was using a car battery kit to check the charge and thought it might be different. I also tightened up the bolts, so it'll be ready to go as soon as I get a battery.

Right now I'll probably order from this site that another user gave me (http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26 ... IR_CLEANER (http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/42/Year/2001/ModelID/6483/Model/GZ250/GroupID/271070/Group/AIR_CLEANER)) unless anyone knows any better places. Thanks for all your help.

[Gz Rider]

...

[jonathan180iq]

Ronayers is a good website, but you can get a motorcycle battery from just about anywhere. My local Wal-Mart even has them.

I would also recommend buying a charger. Everyone who owns a vehicle of any sort needs to have a battery charger laying around.

[bjrscj]

I feel like this is a catch 22. I need to start the bike to make sure the battery is good, but I can't start the bike if the battery isn't good. I just went to get the battery charged yesterday, and I only tried starting the bike 3-4 times (one of which it started, once the fuel started flowing back through from having the tank off). Would 3-4 cranks really drain a good battery? I don't have a problem with getting a charger, it's just that if the battery is bad, it's not going to help me anyway.

[jonathan180iq]

Well, push start it and take it for a quick ride to give it a little more charge. (use 2nd gear to push start bike.)
You may very well need a new battery... but you also need a charger just because it's good to have.

[blaine]

You can also give it a boost from a NONRUNNING vehicle.If you leave the vehicle running you can fry the electronics on the bike.
:) :cool:

[Gz Rider]

...

[Water Warrior 2]

You need a charger.............period................ You need to charge the old battery. You need a charger to fully charge a new battery before you put it into service.

[bjrscj]

Well, I got my battery charged again, and I also got a battery charger. I made sure all of the bolts were tightened, and I've already cleaned the carb and the spark plug. I got the bike to start again, but I had to give it a little throttle to start, which worries me a little. BUT, once it started, I didn't see the white smoke coming out this time. After letting it run for about 10 minutes, I did see a little "smoke," but I'm not sure if this is steam or smoke. It was coming out of the exhaust pipes on the front of the bike, right by the engine.

After I let it warm up for about 10 minutes, I took it around for a ride. I didn't get it out of second gear, but it rode fine. I might have to tweak the throttle and idle settings, which may have been changed when I removed the carburetor, but other than that, it seems ok. I'm not planning on driving it long distances for awhile, as I'm still worried about the "smoke" (which may just be seafoam working itself out) and the semi-hard start, but it's running for now.

I really appreciate all of your help and advice. I'm not mechanically inclined, and I appreciate all the insight. I love learning and am grateful for your patience. I'm sure I'll have more questions in the near future.

[Water Warrior 2]

Adding a touch or throttle at start up is no biggy. The exhuast is probably coming from the small drain hole in the lowest part of the pipe. Moisture has to drain out or the pipe rusts from the inside.

[blaine]

I'm glad to see your up and running.I think what your seeing is steam.A lot of times a small problem can seem bigger than it is.Your well on your way to tackling any maintenance job on your bike.Good luck.Any more questions.just ask.
:) :cool:

[mrlmd1]

There should be no smoke or steam coming out of the exhaust pipes at the front of the engine as you describe. We thought you were talking about coming out of the tailpipe. Do you hear or see "poofs" of exhaust coming out of there? Have you tried (gently) to tighten up those nuts holding the pipe on? Don't shear off the bolts.

[Gz Rider]

...

[bjrscj]

I did not tighten those bolts. They look a little precarious. While the others on the book look a nice silver color, these are dark. It doesn't look like a lot of rust, more like they've been scorched. They look kind of brittle. However, I will check them tomorrow.

Someone said the throttling on start up isn't a big deal, but my only other concern is that the top left of the engine still has a few drops of oil appear on it after running for awhile. I tightened up the bolts on the top of the engine, but I still see residual oil. I guess time will tell. I'll check back in as I find out more. Thanks again for all the help.

[jonathan180iq]

I concur that you have a slight exhaust leak. It's fairly common.
Snug up the header bolts and that should disappear.

Also, slight oil seepage is pretty normal too. Where is it coming from exactly?