Speeds for Gears.

[Nightsbane]

I am just curious what gears you guys use at certain speeds (barring special circumstances). I am well aware of the distinct sound of an engine being driven too hard, but I am curious as to what you use. Today I was driving the gz250 extensively and I found that while you can go 30 or so in 3rd it seemed perhaps better in 4th. So for me it ended up.

1st - for the first nudge off of a start
2nd - for a few more seconds, around 15 mph
3rd - 30ish
4th - anywhere from 20-40 while rolling.
5th - engaged it at 45

One thing I did notice is that while 1st especially and sometimes 2nd are jerky sometimes at low speeds you can use 3rd and 4th and pretty low speeds and they are still surprisingly super smooth. Times I thought I would need to down shift even 4th seemed to handle fine.

What are your thoughts?

[blaine]

Sounds good to me.I always found that if the bike didn't jerk in the gear you were in,it was fine.
:) :lol:

[cayuse]

this are my normal shift speeds (with the stock 15T front sprocket)

gears kph mph rpm
1 to 2 25 16 5076
2 to 3 45 28 5848
3 to 4 60 37 5837
4 to 5 70 44 5392

aggressive shift pattern
gears kph mph rpm
1 to 2 30 19 6092
2 to 3 50 31 6498
3 to 4 70 44 6810
4 to 5 90 56 6933

rpms are theoretical based on the speed and gearing, I don't have a tach

[cayuse]

hmmm.,.. that's kind of squished up, I'll try to open that up a bit and re-post

[5th_bike]

Here once again is Jaime's table with rpms vs. speed for the 15 and 16 tooth front sprocket. Thanks Jaime !
15T16Trpm.png
http://s2.postimage.org/22s90khno/15_T16_Trpm.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/22s90khno/)
[attachment=0:3pi25x0e]15T16Trpm.png[/attachment:3pi25x0e]

(Ah well, one day I may figure out how to place an image *as is*)

The point being, you don't want to go too slow. For instance, when you are going 25 mph in 5th gear, it has a hard time accelerating from there. The engine runs better above 3500 rpm and the corresponding speeds (mph) are (for a 15 tooth sprocket):
Gear.. Speed mph
5.......35
4.......28
3.......23
2.......17
1.......11

[alantf]

For instance, when you are going 25 mph in 5th gear, it has a hard time accelerating from there.

O.K., so drop down a gear before you damage the engine. It's no good trying to get too technical with speed, ratios, etc.
Every type of road condition, speed, accelleration, gear etc calls for a different "remedy". If I were you I'd forget all this crap, & use my instinct as to when to change gear. That's the ONLY way to do it. If the engine's labouring, change down. If it's screaming away, change up. You can always reverse the process with a flick of the toe if you've got it wrong.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that you've only driven automatics before (or you wouldn't be asking these questions). There's no hard & fast rules about changing gears, it's just something else you've got to learn. EVERY gearchange is different. Just flow with it. :)

BTW, the fact that you're trying to accellerate from a very low speed in a very high gear, is what leads me to the conclusion that you've only driven automatics before. :roll:

[geezer]

+1 with the power this bike makes youll know if your in the right gear or not, its simple just like he said screaming? upshift, not moving at all? downshift get used to the way the engine should sound

[cayuse]

you guys are right. just feel the bike and shift appropriately.
when you aren't getting the power you want, shift down.
trouble is, for the newby on a bike with no tach it's a little worrying.
for instance, what does the redline feel like, or sound like?
for me, it was a welcome relief to know I could downshift out of 5th on the highway and maintain 60mph without blowing the engine apart.

[geezer]

true its just a different mind set than im in. ive nver had thoughts of gears and speeds i need to be at but for a beginner its a differnt world al together

[Rookie Rider]

I cant even hear my gz250 while riding, between wind and other motorists, geez. Im new at this and im trying to listen to my bike and i cant. grrr.

[alantf]

Im new at this and im trying to listen to my bike and i cant.

O.K., try this......... keep an eye on the speedo....... You're riding along quite happily when you notice your speed is dropping. You give it a bit more throttle & not much happens.... This is when you need to change down.

You give it more throttle & you speed up. You get to the point when you haven't any throttle left, but it still wants to go. This is when you need to change up.

I know this is really basic, but it's just a way of trying to get the VERY basics across. :2tup:

[alanmcorcoran]

Main thing I changed after riding a while is I upped the speeds considerably before I shifted. I don't know if this means I will kill the engine earlier than otherwise, but in second and third I wind it up pretty good (even if you can't hear it - which I find hard to believe, you should be able to "feel" the engine/transmission) and I generally don't use fifth unless I am going flat/downhill/no wind. The bike will do 65 in fourth. Never use fifth gear when going up hill. I'll go as high as 25 in second and 40 in third.

The thing is, shifting based purely on speed and revs is only going to work under one specific set of conditions. You have to consider hills, wind, etc. as well and adjust accordingly.

On my other bike, I got a lot more torque and I tend to shift a lot faster (lower RPM's) even at 70 I'm only at 3K in fifth.

[cayuse]

I'm shifting at higher speeds now, too. In fact, I notice a harmonic buzz in the frame at certain speeds which turns out to be about 7000rpm. That's about when I shift, unless I'm REALLY in a hurry, and I let it wind up a bit more.
As for hearing the engine..... get ear plugs. The good ones will cut out almost all the wind noise leaving you with the low frequency stuff like engine, talking, car horns, etc...
I'm spoiled now; I won't ride more than a few blocks without them; can't stand wind noise.

[Rookie Rider]

I got ear plugs now too, lets see if they help me.

[jonathan180iq]

Even with earplugs, you should be able to feel what's going on.

The GZ is very good at giving immediate feedback, being such a simple machine.

[cayuse]

Trouble is, for a newbie there's no point of reference at all. He's rolling along and the bike's vibrating and the engine's buzzing and he's worrying that the motor's about to explode. But, it's actually just doing what a GZ250 does at 7 grand. It's pretty happy to go somewhat faster with no ill effects. Once he absorbs the numbers we've posted above, and goes out and rides and sees what that feels like he'll be learn how to 'listen' to the bike (with his ears and his butt).

[Suncross]

My Gz didn't come with a tach. I am going by soiund, but like Cayuse said, I have really no reference. I have put about 400+ miles on my GZ, and I really got the hang of shifting. I over rev the engine at times I think, but that's only because I have been told it is better to over rev than to lug. I get stuck in traffic where people want to ride at 33.4 mph, and it's either lug it in 4th, or rev it a little in 3rd.

All in all, I think I am just going to install a 16T front sprocket for smoother riding. lol.

[Suncross]

Here once again is Jaime's table with rpms vs. speed for the 15 and 16 tooth front sprocket. Thanks Jaime !
15T16Trpm.png
http://s2.postimage.org/22s90khno/15_T16_Trpm.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/22s90khno/)
[attachment=0:n88fscnq]15T16Trpm.png[/attachment:n88fscnq]

(Ah well, one day I may figure out how to place an image *as is*)

The point being, you don't want to go too slow. For instance, when you are going 25 mph in 5th gear, it has a hard time accelerating from there. The engine runs better above 3500 rpm and the corresponding speeds (mph) are (for a 15 tooth sprocket):
Gear.. Speed mph
5.......35
4.......28
3.......23
2.......17
1.......11

According to that picture, I have been shifting as such:

1st-2nd 5,000
2nd-3rd 5,000-6,000
3rd-4th 5,000-6,000 (actually I hardly ever get passed 5,500 according to that chart. Only sometimes when I am not looking, and then the engine is screaming)
4th-5th 5,500 (past 5,500, I usually shift from 4th to 5th. If I am about to go up a hill pushing 45mph, I will let off the throttle a little as going up, and then pull back down on it. I stay in 4th though).

So according to my numbers.. I haven't been lugging or over revving have I?

[grego]

hi all
i haven't really figured the shifting thing out completely. have installed a tach and its 500 rpm higher then the rest of the worlds for some reason. at 30 mph it reads 3500 at 35 it reads 4000... being a newbie i like 4000 as a shift point the engine doesn't sound like its straining. when it hits 4000 shift ! don't know if its right or wrong perhaps some knowledgeable person will correct me if i'm wrong. i have yet to take it over 6000 cause i haven't hit 600 miles yet.....

safe biking

grego

[grego]

hi all
i haven't really figured the shifting thing out completely. have installed a tach and its 500 rpm higher then the rest of the worlds for some reason. at 30 mph it reads 3500 at 35 it reads 4000... being a newbie i like 4000 as a shift point the engine doesn't sound like its straining. when it hits 4000 shift ! don't know if its right or wrong perhaps some knowledgeable person will correct me if i'm wrong. i have yet to take it over 6000 cause i haven't hit 600 miles yet.....

safe biking

grego

[geezer]

grego, if your going up a hill and insist on always shifting at 4000 your not gonna make it :biggrin: bike engines are designed to be revved. i belive redline for this engine is 9000, so if you shifted around 5 or six your not going to hurt it at all. but shifting at 6000 going down a hill is just stupid and unnecciasry.

[Water Warrior 2]

I would think the red line is closer to 8000 RPM. Anything after that is just noise and potential broken parts. The sweet spot is about 6000 for normal highway speeds.

[blaine]

I would think the red line is closer to 8000 RPM. Anything after that is just noise and potential broken parts. The sweet spot is about 6000 for normal highway speeds.
:plus1: Red line is 8000 RPM. :cool:

[geezer]

good to know. anyway my point is not to baby the engine like you would in a car, rev it up.

GREGO!!

[grego]

geezer

i do rev it up when i miss second !!!! all local driving top speed limit 40 .. what i do find amusing is that i have my practice street with lots of curves and stuff when i ride by every car that has an alarm chirps !!getting new tires,spokes (a few were broken and repaired by po) and the wheels trued cause at 60 -65 she starts doin the shimmie shake. oh by the way how do you like your new muffler

safe biking

grego

[geezer]

hahaha yeah missing second can be embarasing huh? another thing about shifting, do you know what the term, "lugging the engine" means? in all actuallity just because your reving up the engine does not mean your making it work harder. infact, if your going to slow for the gear you are in you will have to increase the amount of throttle you apply, doing this with an engine that is rvving to low not only increases fuel consumption but can also actually damage the engine. every engine has its sweet spot for power output. some engines like diesels only need to turn around 3000 rpm to make peak power, and thats because of its design. now a motorcycle enigne is the complete opposite, it needs more revs to be in its peakpower spot. and car engines fall in the middle of the two. this is a very general example but i hope to help you with understanding what the engine actually wants. and unlide an automatic that does all this thinking for you, now you have to understand and give the engine what i needs.
i love the new muffler but am running into pretty severe power loss issues, i will post a new thread on the topic soon

[alantf]

some engines like diesels only need to turn around 3000 rpm to make peak power, and thats because of its design. now a motorcycle enigne is the complete opposite, it needs more revs to be in its peakpower spot.

Not quite correct. The Yamaha v-stars reach maximum torque at 2,500 RPM to give a more relaxing ride.

[Water Warrior 2]

Yamaha even advertised the 650 V-star as being designed with a sweet spot at 55 mph in top gear.

[Rookie Rider]

Is it ok to take off from a red light in second? It seems like the bike doesnt mind.

[blaine]

Is it ok to take off from a red light in second? It seems like the bike doesnt mind.
Not a good idea.You should leave your bike in first gear,and leave room to maneuver in a emergency.If the bike is in second gear,and you need to move in a hurry,the bike will stall,leaving you helpless.Same reason you shouldn't stay in neutral at a stop.
:) :cool:

[Rookie Rider]

Got it, thanks man.

[Rookie Rider]

How do you miss second gear ayway?

[jonathan180iq]

How do you miss second gear ayway?

Being too agressive on take-off. Happens more often that you might think.

[alantf]

How do you miss second gear ayway?

I sometimes miss second too, & end up in neutral. If I'm not thinking about it I give one "click" like the other gears. but it's no biggie. My toe is still under the pedal, so I just give an extra "click" when I realise I'm not going anywhere. :blush: