The bike that inspired me

[jazzhunt]

Hi folks. I saw this bike recently and was inspired to re-visit the idea of getting a bike. I live in Perth, Western Australia, home of some of the harshest bike restrictions around :roll: Mandatory helmet, lights on 24/7 and everyone, without exception, must ride a 250 for a year before they are allowed to sit (another) test to allow 'open' riding. This means that 250's are quite expensive, since you must have one, and having short legs means not many of the 250's (that I can afford)out there suit me. I did like the Virago 250's, back in the day, but as I grew (out, not up!) I felt they were a little dainty. Eventually I just let the whole idea slide. I saw this grubby old geezer and really fell for it - the wider tank, squat stance and fenders just really called to me. So I thought and thought and thought and spent hours on this forum (oh, man, some of the bobber projects on here are great!) and not 10 minutes ago I came home with the bike, a new helmet, a new armoured jacket and new gloves. Now to go do the training, get some practice and get out there. But in the weeks it will take to go through that process I'll be cleaning, polishing, repairing and generally bringing the old geezer back to life. Sure, it's not pretty but my (very) experienced mates checked it out and declared it acceptable (it's an honest cheapy and, hey, it does have less than 30 000 kilometres on it, was the call) and surely what inspires you has to be given a chance :-) Looking forward to spending even more time on this site!

[alantf]

Hi there, & welcome to the madhouse.

Reckon you'll get to like the two wheel experience in your part of Australia. My mate Bob, in Secret Harbour, puts on several hundred Ks each weekend. Mind you, he's got a 1700 cc Yamaha, so I'll bet that you'll wanna upgrade as soon as you can, to take advantage of those wide open spaces. :2tup:

[jazzhunt]

Thanks, Alantf :-) Yep, that is definitely the plan! I have mates all over the state who do a lot of miles on things as varied as gsxrs, m50's, harleys, st1100's, fury's and little gpx's and 250 ninjas. It's been amazing how many of them have offered to 'shadow' me now that I've got the bike. But I think the thing that was most reassuring was that every one of them, without fail, said "...don't care what you ride, just as long as you are riding..." or a version of it. BTW, Secret Harbour is certainly a nice place to base yourself :-)

[BillInGA]

Good on ya', mate! And welcome aboard. What year is it?

It doesn't look to be in any worse shape than mine. Hmm, maybe I should give it a bath...

[alanmcorcoran]

Welcome. Have fun with your new toy.

[jazzhunt]

Oops, good point BillInGA - it's a '98 model. Now minus the gear rack:-) Removed but hanging in the shed - I'm sure it will be useful once I'm more experienced.

[blaine]

Welcome to the family.Ride safe. :cool: :2tup:

[Water Warrior 2]

Welcome Jazz. Your new friend looks pretty good for a 98. Have fun getting to know each other and happy wrenching.

[mole2]

Welcome to the forum from South Carolina, USA. Ride safe.


:)

[geezer]

great story, i would want a new bike to if i had all that straight line riding too, but boy is this bike fun in the mountains

[Water Warrior 2]

I would really like to have a GZ and ride the Tail of the Dragon. The tight curves would be so much fun with a light flickable bike without the sport bike performance that will get you into trouble.

[geezer]

yeah i dont know about that, the pegs on this thing are already grinded down to the point now im rubbing the frame, i dont think my baby could do the dragon and come out in one piece :lol:

[Water Warrior 2]

You can corner better if you practice leaning your body on the bike. Moving your center of gravity into the corner will allow the bike to stay more upright and/or corner faster. Tried this on the Vstrom at higher speeds and it was quite surprising how well it cornered and held the road.

[mole2]

You can corner better if you practice leaning your body on the bike. Moving your center of gravity into the corner will allow the bike to stay more upright and/or corner faster. Tried this on the Vstrom at higher speeds and it was quite surprising how well it cornered and held the road.

Ok...please splain. From what you say you mean moving your arse to the low side in cornering (left hand corner, left side, correct? Or is it the reverse? I can't remember from the BRC course.


:)

[geezer]

yes moving over to the side your turning and tucking your head down low and moving your knee out does help, this is what i do on my gz and my fzr. it moves the center gravity over to help keep the bike as upright as ppossible using your own body to turn the bike and not the lean angle. moving over to the other direction causes the opposite affect making the bike have to lean farther over to turn.

[Water Warrior 2]

What Geezer said. In a left curve lean forward and try to kiss the left mirror. Right curve kiss the right mirror. It works.

[mole2]

Thanks guys. Will give it a try.


:)

[alanmcorcoran]

I see pro racers do this routinely but I assumed it was to keep the bike leaned over. As far I've read, the only thing that makes the bike turn is the disparity in the wheel tracking and that's caused entirely due to counter steering. Countersteering, in the absence of leaning, will dump the bike. More countersteer, more leaning required. When you go around a curve, centrifugal forces are pushing the bike up (and thus, causing you to go straight, which you don't want.) what the weight shift does is help you counter the centrifugal force so that A) you can keep the bike leaned over, esp at higher speeds and b) maintain an aggressive counter steer. When I see road porn shots of guys hard cornering it usually shows both the knee touching the ground as well as a very aggressive countersteer.

Although the weight shift is involved in hard cornering technique, the countersteer is the thing that actually causes the bike to turn.

Or has this been disproven?

[Water Warrior 2]

Both counter steering and weight shift work hand in hand. If you surprise yourself with too much weight shift the bike will really turn too much. Easy fix though, just apply more throttle and ride.
A very good write up on counter steering and weight shift is in Proficient Motorcycling. Where else ?? :2tup:

[jazzhunt]

Wow, what an excellent discussion :) Thanks for sharing that. I think what Geezer said and Water Warrior's summary "...kiss the mirror..." is the most concise description I have ever come across - it makes it very clear. Now, if I can find an instructor that clear and informative I'll be very happy :2tup: Is there still a debate about counter-steering or is it generally accepted? It always seemed like sensible physics to me but I'm not (yet) a rider so it's not right for me to argue one way or the other.

[Water Warrior 2]

Jazz, counter steering is the best and only way to get around a curve safely. Counter steering(CS) safely leans the bike. Right hand curve ahead of you....push gently on the right hand grip and the bike will lean a bit and you are done. It does take practice to be smooth and on top of your input so don't think you will ever just go like the dickens into an unfamiliar curve with no drama. The alternative is trying to remain upright and steering like a car.......not gonna happen without mishap in most cases.
Have an old guy friend here who rode upright for 2 years and fought the bike at lowered speeds in the curves. Some one convinced him to slowly play with counter steering. The results were "remarkable" in his words. Mike now rides more and really enjoys the curves with an 1100 Yamaha cruiser.
Lynda had a hard time wrapping her mind around CS on her GZ. Then one day it clicked and look out her she come and there she goes. Lynda is almost a "Natural" rider in the twisties. Carves a far better line than I ever will whether she was on the GZ or her present M-50.

[alanmcorcoran]

Jazz, think I read about countersteering in both Proficient and a book I think was called Twist of the Wrist. At low speed, you can steer the bike like a car, but it doesn't work at high speed (you'll fall over from the centrifugal force). The trick is that turning in the opposite direction causes the front wheel to track (veer) to the opposite direction. At the same time, you lean over in the direction you are going. There is some debate over whether the countersteer causes the lean or the lean the countersteer, but in reality, it doesn't really matter. From my perspective, people know how to lean intuitively. I don't think most people even realize they are countersteering too. The common method of getting beginners to get the hang of it is to tell them to push on the bar on the side they want to go. This automatically forces a lean/countersteer. It's basically the same as riding a bicycle, only somewhat faster. Twist of the wrist helped me a lot because it emphasized and explained the role of centrifugal force - especially how it affects cornering. The counter intuitive takeaway from it is: you can corner better with the throttle Always on through the curve. Throttle affects the suspension (compresses the rear) and letting of the throttle reduces your traction and also causes the bike to want to straighten up.

I think it's best just to ride around for the first few 1000 miles and get some low speed experience, focus on watching out for cars, shifting, braking. After six months you'll be on a better position to focus on improved cornering technique. Try and do too much and you'll be thinking too much instead of riding and that can be a distraction.

[jazzhunt]

Oh, I get that Alan, no problem! Pondering the theory is just a bit of mental stimulation; actually worrying about it when riding is not likely at all :) [At least not in the initial months]I completely understand that I am as a raw a novice as I can be and my primary focus is to listen to those wise enough to have survived riding for 30 or 40 years, pay money to get professional training and practice, practice, practice. I actually know people who have ridden daily for 40 years and never had an accident. Sure there may be an element of luck there but, as in most things, to a large extent you make your own luck and anyone with that kind of record should at least be paid some attention!
Now, back to the theory for a second...One of the many cars i have owned was a Mazda MX6 Turbo which had 4 wheel steering. One of the cool things about their system was that at walking speed the rear wheels would turn in the opposite direction as the front wheels but at anything over about 5mph the wheels would turn in the same direction, allegedly to help high speed lane changes. It's interesting to me that much the same kind of thing applies to bike counter steering - one way at low speeds but the opposite once you're above walking speed.
And, BTW, I have just ordered a copy of Proficient, as there are sure enough hints around this site:)

[jazzhunt]

And, just as quick aside...
I have done a search but found nothing...
I'm in the middle of rectifying years of neglect on the little geezer and was wondering if you guys have suggestions about cleaning the seat?
A couple of obvious things crossed my mind. 1/ I would guess the best way to keep the seat clean is to polish it with the seat of your pants every day :) but that hasn't happened on this bike for a few years and 2/ ArmourAll or anything else that is likely to make it slippery isn't very smart :roll:
I'd appreciate any tips...

[Water Warrior 2]

Neglected seat. First thing that pops in my mind is a bucket of water with a mild soap. Soft bristled brush of some sort and enjoy. The seat is vinyl so you won't hurt it. Also you are right about Armorall. Never ever put any finish on a seat that will make it slippery.
Got a good lesson with the stuff a few years back. A friend cleaned up his old pick-up. Then he applied Armorall to every surface in the cab including the door panels and rubber floor mats. Vinyl seats included. After 3 tries I was able to get into the cab without slipping and sliding about. After the truck started to move I felt like an insane piece of Flubber.