View Full Version : Bike turns over on first try but not second....
Kayrub
03-13-2011, 04:02 PM
Like the subject says, I can turn the bike on first try after having it charged let it idle and warm up, drive about 10 miles to the gas station and turn it off, fill up some gas, and then it wont start again, after that experience I went home let it sit for one night, started it let it idle for a while then shut it off and tried to start it again, and nothing. thought it may be battery, got a new one, thought it may be starter, got a new one, thought it might be spark plug, got a new one....I'm all out of ideas and I've watched the battery rate while revving and it does charge the battery while running so I don't think it's alternator any help?
mrlmd1
03-13-2011, 04:55 PM
I don't know where to begin here because this is such a general question with so any possibilities, but here goes--
For starters - If you bought a new AGM battery, did you charge it before you installed it and used it? If not. it may be shot already, after starting the bike only one or two times., ie. no good, not able to hold a full charge. These MUST be put on a charger and fully charged before first use, not just taken off the shelf or filled with acid and then you are told they are good to go.
Secondly - As has been said on here many times - you do not start the bike, let it sit for a while at idle. You are depleting the battery more in starting it than you are recharging it at idle, even if it sat at idle for hours. These bikes have a very puny charging system and do not put out significant charging output 'till they reach 2500-3000 rpm.
Third - We need more information from you. Do you have lights when you turn the key on? Do they stay lit or dim severely when you hit the start button? Does the starter not turn over when you hit the start button, or does it "click"? I assume the switch is in the RUN position, not OFF, and the clutch is pulled in when you try and start the bike (this is one of the safety interlocks).
And when you say it won't start, does that mean the starter won't turn over, or that it turns over fine, but the engine won't "fire" or "catch" or run?
You are using the choke correctly right? These engines need the choke for a cold start.
Check your battery with a voltage meter. A fully charged battery should read 12.6-12.8V. Invest in a small 2 amp (nothing higher) battery charger or maintainer/tender, and recharge your battery fully, and try it again. There is nothing wrong with your starter or your alternator, or your spark plug (gap set right when you put in a new one?) . Practically all the time the problem is due to the battery and how it is used/abused. If your battery won't hold a charge and repeatedly fails to start your bike after a few starts, recharge it again, bring it back to the store and have it tested with a load tester as that is the only way to see if it's any good. And if you get a replacement, you better charge it up first regardless of what the guy in the store says, or you'll be back there again within a week getting another one.
You should also maybe spray some contact cleaner into the RUN/OFF switch and starter button and work them back and forth a few times - this may clean up dirty contacts.
It would be nice if you gave us a clue as to the age/mileage/ a little past history/maintenance on this bike, like did you just get this? Etc, etc.
Oh, and welcome to the group.
Introducing yourself would also be nice, so we have an idea of your experience level and can help you better. I think you will find this an informative place, but tell us a little about yourself and your bike. :)
5th_bike
03-13-2011, 07:59 PM
'Nothing' - it doesn't even turn over ? No 'click' sound (from the starter relay) ?
If the starter does turn, kindly also inform us about any application of 'choke' during the second start.
Kayrub
03-13-2011, 08:03 PM
It wont turn over on the second try it makes a buzz with the choke turned on.
5th_bike
03-13-2011, 08:11 PM
Sounds like the 'not-fully-charged-new-battery' problem that mrlmd1 already mentioned.
BTW, if the engine it hot (and after 10 miles it is) and you just got gas, there is no need to use the choke.
Do you have booster cables and know how to use them?
Kayrub
03-13-2011, 08:16 PM
I fully charged a new battery when I got it, I tried a normal acid battery, then the suzuki dealer gave me a gel battery to try, I also fully charged it before I put them on. both have the same problem, and by booster cables to you mean like jumper cables for a car?
Yes, as in jumper cables and where they go on the GZ.
Kayrub
03-13-2011, 08:38 PM
Where do they go?
mrlmd1
03-13-2011, 08:54 PM
Pos to pos and neg to neg on battery terminals (or on any other good ground) from car to bike, but DO NOT have the car running when you connect them or try to start your bike as the car's alternator output will fry all the electronics on the bike.
If you have absolutely no turning over of the starter but just a "buzz" when you hit the start button, that sounds like a dead battery. Have you measured the battery voltage at the battery terminals?
As an outside chance you are doing this, as other members on here have done - when you turn the key to the OFF position, be careful you do not turn it beyond OFF, and leave the rear parking lights on. In daylight hours you may not notice this, then come back and find the battery dead because it has discharged from the lights being left on.
Can you tell us what you charged the battery with and for how long before you installed it or used it?
And you are pulling in the clutch when you try and start the bike? My bikes will not start unless the clutch is pulled in. Or, you may not be in neutral and then it will not turn over unless the clutch is pulled in.
You say you got a new starter. Can I ask why?, and how you tested the old one before you replaced it?. Did YOU replace it or a dealer or mechanic? Did anyone test the starter to see if it was bad before replacing it?
And are you going to tell us how old this bike is and how many miles on it and any other maintenance history other than that you replaced the starter, spark plug and batteries in an attempt to shotgun solve your problem for lack of concrete problem solving?
Take off the seat.
Take off the right side panel.
The battery post will be on this side.
Put + to + and - to - from an automobile.
+ positive =hot.
- neg= ground.
Do not start the automobile.
Try to start the GZ and report back.
PS download the pdf manual and read it and look at the pictures a few times...good reference.
Kayrub
03-13-2011, 08:59 PM
I have the manual I know how to connect them like that I thought there was some other way haha.
I charged my battery to 100% drove around 14-15 miles turned it off and checked the battery and it was at 12%
You did not answer the question of how LONG DID YOU CHARGE THE BATTERY.
1 hour 2 hours ????
Have you ever tried to boost it off???
Kayrub
03-13-2011, 09:08 PM
Here's whole story of today. I started off with the gel battery charged at 100% it had been on the charger for a good hour. I left my acid batter on the charge while I went out to ride, It was on the charger for around 2-3 hours. I went riding for about 20-30 minutes and parked at gamestop hung out for a bit with my friends for about 1-2hrs I went to start it and it wouldn't crank over. So in order to get home I push started it and while driving down the road about 3-4 miles my bike died, tried to push start wouldn't work lights were dim. Brought the fully charged acid battery put it on started right up, rode home about 13-15 miles turned it off immediately and put it on our battery reader and it read 12%
Acid batteries has a series of actions you must follow.
One of those steps is a 6-8 hour charge.
HAVE you ever tried to boost the bike when it will not start????????????????????????????????????????????? ???
mrlmd1
03-13-2011, 09:18 PM
Your battery is dead. Plain and simple. What measured 100%?, reading off the charger? More importantly, what was the voltage?, not the "charge" reading.
Can you please tell me what you charged it with? You need to have it on a 2 amp charger for 6-8 hours to fully charge it.
You have to charge the battery, then let it sit for at least a half hour to dissipate the "surface charge", then measure the voltage. It should be 12.8 fully charged. The reading of "100%" off the charger means very little. But if it said 12 % later, that battery cannot hold a charge, it is shot, dead, like I said. Charge it again. to 100% if you want, don"t touch it, measure it again 6 hrs. later and see what it says.
That's exactly what happens to a new AGM battery not fully charged before you first use it.
Also if you measure the resting battery voltage as a baseline and then get the bike started, then rev it up to 3000 rpm or more, the voltage at the battery should read 13.5-14V and that tells you the charging system is OK.
BTW, make sure all your battery connections and your bike ground are clean and tight.
Don't keep replacing parts until you reason out what is wrong, you are facing a bottomless pit and going nowhere. Please answer all my questions and those of others if you really want some help to figure this out.
I'm sure your battery is the problem. It probably was never fully charged in the first place.
Kayrub
03-13-2011, 09:18 PM
I replaced the starter because a mechanic had told my father that's what the problem seemed like since we had replaced the battery, then we thought maybe for some reason we had fouled the spark plug and just put a new one in for good measure, It's a 2000 gz250 has around 1300 miles on it. It has been sitting in my Uncle's garage since oct-nov I believe.
Kayrub
03-13-2011, 09:20 PM
A batter tender it read 100% charge and it did have a 12.8 reading on the voltage.
I've never jumped it from a car before.
alanmcorcoran
03-13-2011, 09:26 PM
Kay,
The most important thing mentioned above is: you can't charge a battery in one hour. The batteries charge best at the lower amp setting (on the charger) and typically should be charged overnight (12 hours at least.)
It's theoretically possible that your problem is something other than a dead battery, but, until you've eliminated that (which, based on what you've told us, you haven't) it's the most likely cause.
Also, many, many people have posted on here with trouble starting and, if it is not a choke/carb problem it is almost always the battery. Weak as the charging system is, it appears to be pretty reliable.
mrlmd1
03-13-2011, 09:30 PM
The mechanic replaced your starter? Did he test yours first to see if the original one would work connected directly to a good battery? Sounds to me like you should change your mechanic, not your starter, or spark plug. Spark plugs have nothing to do with the starter engaging or turning over, but a clean new plug never hurts (unless it's not gapped properly).
You never answered me - you are not leaving your rear parking lights on when you walk away from the bike, are you?
As a totally different problem, having NOTHING to do with the one you are presenting here, it would be a good idea to put some Seafoam or Berryman's B12 Chemtool in the gas tank, 1 oz/gal of fuel, to clean up the carb from fuel sitting in it for the past 5-6 months.
A batter tender it read 100% charge and it did have a 12.8 reading on the voltage.
I've never jumped it from a car before.
A tender will not charge a battery in 1 or 2 hours.....
Most tenders put out .5 to 1.5 amps per hour. The battery is 6.5 to 11 amps.(if I recall )
So divide amps of charger into amps of the battery...this is how long you need to charge the battery.
1. charge battery over night.
2. if it will not start boost it.
It is really that simple.
blaine
03-13-2011, 09:39 PM
Also if you measure the resting battery voltage as a baseline and then get the bike started, then rev it up to 3000 rpm or more, the voltage at the battery should read 13.5-14V and that tells you the charging system is OK.
I think you have a charging problem.The battery goes dead after the first start,indicating that the battery is not been charged back up.You state that you rode about 10 miles,long enough to run the battery down if the bike is not charging.
:??: :cool:
Kayrub
03-13-2011, 09:53 PM
A batter tender it read 100% charge and it did have a 12.8 reading on the voltage.
I've never jumped it from a car before.
A tender will not charge a battery in 1 or 2 hours.....
Most tenders put out .5 to 1.5 amps per hour. The battery is 6.5 to 11 amps.(if I recall )
So divide amps of charger into amps of the battery...this is how long you need to charge the battery.
1. charge battery over night.
2. if it will not start boost it.
It is really that simple.
I didn't use the tender to charge it I used it to read what the voltage was and see if it also said my battery was at 100% and it did.
Kayrub
03-13-2011, 09:55 PM
The mechanic replaced your starter? Did he test yours first to see if the original one would work connected directly to a good battery? Sounds to me like you should change your mechanic, not your starter, or spark plug. Spark plugs have nothing to do with the starter engaging or turning over, but a clean new plug never hurts (unless it's not gapped properly).
You never answered me - you are not leaving your rear parking lights on when you walk away from the bike, are you?
As a totally different problem, having NOTHING to do with the one you are presenting here, it would be a good idea to put some Seafoam or Berryman's B12 Chemtool in the gas tank, 1 oz/gal of fuel, to clean up the carb from fuel sitting in it for the past 5-6 months.
I replaced the starter, I don't leave the parking lights on.
blaine
03-13-2011, 10:04 PM
I replaced the starter, I don't leave the parking lights on.
I think you have a charging problem.The battery goes dead after the first start,indicating that the battery is not been charged back up.You state that you rode about 10 miles,long enough to run the battery down if the bike is not charging.
:??: :cool:
mrlmd1
03-14-2011, 09:26 AM
My bet is still on the battery. What does the voltage read after sitting overnight, before trying to start the bike?, then after trying and not being able to start the bike?
The charging circuit health can easily be ascertained like I said by measuring the voltage with the engine running at least 3000rpm. 13.5-14.5V = healthy, not the problem.
mrlmd1
03-16-2011, 09:55 AM
So what happened? What was the resolution to this?
Did I/we chase him away or did he solve his problem and move on? :??:
blaine
03-16-2011, 10:17 AM
So what happened? What was the resolution to this?
Did I/we chase him away or did he solve his problem and move on? :??:
That kinda grinds my gears,some people never bother to report back to tell us if they need more help,got fed up with us, or solved the problem so it may help somebody else.That's my rant for the day.
O_o :??:
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