I can't start up the bike -- HELP!

[7653]

I recently bought a used Suzuki GZ250 2002. It has 635 miles on the odometer.

During the sale the previous owner wasn't able to get the bike to turn over+fire up initially. He had to jump-start with a battery. Then he drove the bike around and it ran fine, at least according to my newbie observations.

When the previous owner transported and transferred ownership of the bike to me on a different day he said he charged up the battery for me prior. When we ran the bike it successfully turned over+fired up.

Since then I have tried multiple times to fire up the bike without success. When I press the starter button the bike goes gur gur gur gur (turn over) and the lights eventually start flickering and I hear whimpers from the bike. It doesn't fire up.

I checked the battery voltage it was at 12.1V. I called AAA road service to check it out. They said the battery just needed a jump-start after watching me unsuccessfully trying to turn over the bike. The starter button+jump start didn't work. Starter button+jump start+choke didn't work. The start button+jump start+choke+throttle did work. I left the bike running for 30 minutes and then I tried to turn over+fire up the bike again. It couldn't fire up while I pressed the start button/the bike was turning over. I checked the battery it was at 11.8V.

What is going on?
Do I need to buy a new battery?

Could the fuel in the carb have turned into jelly after being stationary for long periods? A local suzuki dealer ruled this out when I told him the previous owner drove the bike during the sale.

Any ideas or suggestions as to what I should do?

[JWR]

Do I need to buy a new battery?


Yes. The new battery must have a good charge before using.

Failure to fully charge will give it a very short life.

The GZ MUST have above 12 volt to start. A lot of times it will turn over fine but not start, but a boost will get it going.

If you are going to keep the bike buy a good battery. A one time investment will pay off 5,6, or even 7 years down the road.

[alanmcorcoran]

76,

As always I must preface my advice with the disclaimer "I am the anti-mechanic." With that out of the way, and based on your story, here is my inexpert diagnosis/advice.

#1) You almost ALWAYS need to have the choke on. Even if it's warm out. The only exception is if you just recently turned the thing off. You don't usually need to leave it on for more than five minutes (usually less) but you always want it at least partway on to start. ALWAYS.

#2) You MIGHT need a new battery. In fact, you probably need one. BUT, it's worth slow trickle charging you battery overnight before you buy one. You can jump it yourself from your car (don't run the engine on your car - search on here for instructions) if you have to. You can also "jump" start it if you can get it rolling down hill.

#3) Your real problem is the bike is suffering from a common GZ ailment - lack of use. The symptoms are: hard to start, rough idling, stalling. I have expereinced two varieties of this. One variety (we'll call it Type 1) is self-curable by simply putting about 150-250 miles on the bike in a day or two. (at least one tank of gas, preferably two.) The second (Type 2) has much of the same symptoms, except a bit worse, idle drifts all around and NO amount of riding will cure it. I suspect the second is a more serious clog of one of the carb jets, but I don't know the cure - mine was cured by three trips to the dealer who probably finally "really" cleaned the carb on the third try.

I suggest you get a trickle charger first, then ride the thing 100 miles or so before you buy a battery. The fact that it WILL start up with a jump, means you probably do need a battery, but, the battery might just not have been properly charged. Unfortunately, once a batteyr is effed up, it typically remains somewhat effed up, and it sucks to be riding aorund never knowing if the thing is going to crap out on you and leave you stranded. However, at 635 miles, it's basically a brand new battery. You can search on here for the proper way to get the best charge into it, but be advised that it might be beyond hope. I can tell you i personally ran my battery down to zero TWICE - each time over several days (left the lights on) and I was able to recharge with a charger and it's been working fine for over a year since.

Good luck and welcome aboard.

[mrlmd1]

It's not a new battery, it's 9 years old, and if it has been left in a discharged state for a long while it may never recover and be able to hold a full charge.
Put it on a charger with no more than a 2 amp output for 6-8 hours or a battery maintainer or similar thing overnight and see if it holds a charge. A battery reading 12.1 volts is dead, 70% discharged, and will not start the GZ. What you are hearing is the starter solenoid clicking and an attempt at turning over the starter.
A fully charged battery reads 12.8 volts. Put it on a charger as I said, measure the voltage afterwards and get it load tested. That is the only way to see if it's any good.
If you do buy a new battery, (an AGM is the type for this bike), and I said this 50 times on here, regardless of what the guy in the battery store says, that it's good to go, it is not. It must be put on a charger to FULLY CHARGE IT BEFORE FIRST USE or it will crap out real quick and you'll be back at the store getting another one. Be warned - you must do this. While you are reinstalling the battery, attach a pigtail SAE connector to the battery posts (comes as part of the little battery charger/maintainers that you should buy), and let it hang down protected and accessible somewhere underneath or beneath the seat so you can readily attach charger cables to it for future use, and maybe use it for a very light load, like a GPS, not much more.
Also, to get your carb clean, add 1 oz/gal fuel of either Seafoam or Berryman's B12 Chemtool (cheaper, 1/3 the price of Seafoam) to your gas tank and do that every 3 or 4 tankfuls to keep it clean.
There is nothing wrong with your bike except the battery, and as they say in the medical profession, it's from atrophy of disuse.

[7653]

Thanks guys for the suggestions. I took your input very seriously and am following your advice. I have bought a battery tender plus (12V 1.25Amp) to charge my battery. And if that doesn't work I will just buy a new battery.

I was charging my battery on Friday and it went to 13.25V. The green light on the battery tender was flashing (indicating above 80% charged battery) but a solid green light never came (indicating fully charged battery). I stopped the charging and left the bike alone until I could charge again.

Today, prior to continuing the charging, I checked the battery voltage and it was 12.91V. I charged the battery again for several hours. During the charging I heard barely noticeable sizzling sounds coming from the battery. I stopped the charging and left the bike alone. The new battery voltage measured 13.57V. The battery tender still had the flashing green light when I stopped charging and the solid green light never came on.

Should I wait until the solid green light comes (fully charged battery) before I try to fire up my engine again or just fire it up even though it's still flashing green (over 80% charged)? What was the sizzling sound coming from the battery? Did I accidentally "cook" it or is the sound normal?

PS: On Yahoo Answers nobody seems to know the answer to the battery sizzling sound: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 030AAKnBs5 (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090216155030AAKnBs5) Some claim it is normal, some claim the battery is getting overcharged. Anybody here know?

[blaine]

1.25 amps will not over charge your battery.Did you check to see if it is full of water? Some may have evaporated away with time.If it won't take a full charge,and hold it is a good indication that you need to replace it.The best way to test it,is to take it and have a load test put on it.It won't hurt to start your bike with it.That in it's self is a pretty good load test.
:cool:

[alantf]

1.25 amps will not over charge your battery.

Whilst in no way disagreeing with the above, Suzuki recommend 0.7A for 5-10 hours.My tender is 0.65A, & it works fine. :2tup:

[blaine]

1.25 amps will not over charge your battery.

Whilst in no way disagreeing with the above, Suzuki recommend 0.7A for 5-10 hours.My tender is 0.65A, & it works fine. :2tup:

Your right,or 3A for 1 hour. :) :cool:

[mrlmd1]

Your battery is probably fully charged. You should be able to see through the white plastic case and see the water level (unless your battery is made of black plastic). Try and start the bike and see what happens. If it starts and you ride it, and tomorrow or the next day after it sits and it still reads 12.8 or so, the battery is fine.

[jonathan180iq]

This may have been mentioned, but cranking the bike and leaving it running for 30 minutes isn't going to charge it up.
You need to crank it up and ride it around. Good for the bike and good for you. :)

[alanmcorcoran]

76,

This is going to sound somewhat esoteric, but... a battery tender is not the same as a battery charger. It's a subtle difference and I struggle to articulate it, but the tender people told me that, when I ran my battery down to nothing, that I needed a charger - their tender would not help me at that point. Your situation is different (I think) in that you had a pretty good baseline charge in the battery and I didn't. The tender's are designed to kind of go on and off as needed and many people (and rental companies) leave the batteries on tenders for months at a crack, so there's hardly any danger for over night.

I think chargers do NOT adjust their output/current/on-offedness to the battery - they are "dumber", but they are the proper tool for first time charging up of a new uncharged battery. Overnight is usually all you need, but most of them come with a voltmeter to monitor the charge level.

My charger makes noise when it is on. I'm going to assume the noise you have is coming from the battery. I haven't experienced that on either bike.

[Water Warrior 2]

This may have been mentioned, but cranking the bike and leaving it running for 30 minutes isn't going to charge it up.
You need to crank it up and ride it around. Good for the bike and good for you. :)
Probably heat seize before 30 minutes is up unless it is really cold out with a breeze. A tender or a ride is the best solution.

[Water Warrior 2]

Just scrolled back a bit. If the battery really is 9 years old it has likely give it's all. This would primarily apply to a lead acid battery. Time is their enemy more so than how much they are used. AGM batteries may be a bit different but I think time is still the enemy in any case(my opinion).
I have successfully charged a new AGM battery with a tender. Left the tender on for 12 hours in which time it showed a solid green light. Disconnected over night and charged 12 hours again just to be sure. May sound anal but it's an old guy thing.

[7653]

The battery is a Bike Master brand, made in China.

Yesterday I checked the voltage and it was 12.99V. I then attempted to fire up the bike. I tried to turn over+fire it up several times but it only turned over. The turning over felt more robust than when I had not battery charged/tendered the battery but still could not fire up the bike. I finally succeeded firing up the bike after holding onto the starter button for an extended few seconds and using the throttle. It fired up weakly so I tried the throttle to see if I could boost it up -- the bike then stopped firing up when I used the throttle. I stopped trying after that. The voltage read 12.64V after the attempts to fire the bike up.

I think at this point I just need a new battery. I've never bought a vehicle battery before. I'm a total rookie.

What do I do?
Do I just:
1. Go to Suzuki dealer and ask for a Suzuki GZ 250 battery
2. Ask dealer to charge up battery to max
3. Remove old battery and install the new one

Is that all?

What are good brands/model batteries to purchase?

[jonathan180iq]

Just to be sure, did you use choke?
Giving it gas too early with no choke will kill it like that.


And removing a battery and installing a new one is a simple job and one you need to do yourself. They are just plug-n-play.

Disconnect terminals, remove battery, set new battery in place, reconnect terminals. Done.

[alanmcorcoran]

I finally succeeded firing up the bike after holding onto the starter button for an extended few seconds and using the throttle. It fired up weakly so I tried the throttle to see if I could boost it up -- the bike then stopped firing up when I used the throttle. I stopped trying after that. I think at this point I just need a new battery.

I'm not going to dissuade you from buying a battery, but I'm willing to bet that your bike behaves exactly the same way as you described above with your new battery. Your battery being weak has no impact whatsoever on the throttle killing the engine. I'm not an expert but I really think you have carb problems and you will still have carb problems when you replace the battery. When you advance the throttle, something is not working right with the fuel/air mix in your carb and the result is the engine is flooding/stalling whatever.

As I said before, try jumping the bike from your car - and ride it continuously for 150 miles - at least one tank of (preferably fresh gas.) Then try starting it up (and use the choke if the engine is not already hot.)

GZ carbs are notoriously picky when left for even a month or so. Yours has been idle for nine years. Just sayin'.

Keep us posted.

[alantf]

at least one tank of (preferably fresh gas.)

With a generous dose of carb cleaner in it. :2tup:

[alantf]

2. Ask dealer to charge up battery to max


Don't like to hold up dealers in a bad light :whistle: but you may be better buying a cheapo battery charger/tender & doing the job yourself. That way you know for certain that it's been done, & you'll certainly be glad you bought a charger, over the years. Suzuki recommend 0.7A for 5-10 hours, but anything up to 2A shouldn't damage the battery. :2tup:

[mrlmd1]

Your battery seems fine and that is not your problem - the voltage drop you measured is normal after trying to start the bike that long, and if everything else was OK, the bike should easily and quickly start on 12.6 volts. If everything else is OK, ie. clean carb, good gas, proper use of the choke, the bike starts within 1 or 2 revolutions of the engine and mine always started within 1 second of hitting the starter if not sooner. You must use the choke to start a cold engine and it will not run right or respond to the throttle properly until it's at least run for a few seconds and a little bit warmed up. After you get it started, you slowly turn the choke down bit by bit as it warms up, depending on the idle speed. The best way to do this is to get it started. let it sit for 10-15 sec, slowly ride away, and as it warms up, gradually and progressively over a few min. or a few miles, turn down and eventually turn off the choke. If you don't have one, download the owner's manual on here and read it, you will learn a lot. You may also have some dirty gummed-up carbs as the bike has been sitting so long, and the gas may also be bad. Empty the gas out of the tank, put in fresh gas with a dose of either Berrymans B12 Chemtool or Seafoam 1 oz/gal, get the bike started and ride it if possible, If you are lucky, the fuel treatment may clean out the carb. If not, it may have to be removed and also mechanically cleaned. In any event, the problem you have is not from your battery now. Put it back on the charger, get the fresh gas, put in the carb cleaner, use the choke properly, and try it again.
As an aside, I assume you know how the fuel petcock works and you haven't run out of gas?

[7653]

I put in a new battery. The voltage for the new battery was over 12.9V. The turning over sounded consistent but the bike could not fire up.

I was using the choke. There was gas in the fuel tank.

The Suzuki dealer representative I spoke to while buying the battery told me I probably had to clean the carb if the battery did not work. He also said I could get a $98 diagnostic. I could have them clean the carb or do it myself (which he suggested because he said it's something I have to learn anyway).

Do I just follow 4-4 to 4-9 of the Service Manual? If I do it myself I'm afraid I might f up something or lose a part. I can't drive it around much since I don't even know how to ride a bike. LOL. I bought the bike to learn on.

Tips? Advice?

[blaine]

You need to check to see if you are getting fuel to the carb,before tearing things apart.Open the drain on the float bowel to see if any gas comes out.If not,what position do you have the petcock in?With the petcock in the PRI position you should be getting fuel to the carb.
:) :cool:

[alantf]

I put in a new battery.

Don't want to flog the subject to death, but you did charge it up before installing it? Right? :) :2tup:

[mrlmd1]

I'm really not trying to be nasty or anything like that, but one of your problems is that you ask for advice and then don't listen to what you get, We are trying to help you. You have fixated on the battery as being your problem despite what you have been told, but it's your money to spend anyway you want to. Did the dealer even bother to load test your old battery before he happily sold you a new one?
Your battery is no longer your problem. It did not have to be changed. It had little to do with not being able to start your bike, as you were told before. And regardless of what the voltage read when you measured it, it MUST BE CHARGED FULLY BEFORE YOU USE IT. That means YOU put it back on the charger and let it sit for a number of hours or you will soon have a useless short-lived new battery.
You most likely have a dirty carb or a problem getting gas into it.
Are all the vacuum and other hoses connected to the petcock? Are you checking to see if gas is flowing? Is the gas in the tank new?
Turn the petcock to PRIME and open the drain on the bottom of the carb and see if gas flows out. If so, turn it back to the RUN position and don't forget to turn the drain screw closed.
Are you getting spark? Have you checked the spark plug to see what it looks like?
You could dump some Seafoam or Berrymans directly into the carb and let it sit for many hours or overnight. Drain out the carb through the bottom by opening the drain screw. Fill the carb with one of those cleaners I mentioned, and then walk away and let it do it's magic overnight. Drain out the carb the next morning, put the petcock on PRIME for a minute just to fill it back up, then switch it to RUN and try to start it again. If it starts and runs it's going to run like crap for a few minutes until all the stuff works it's way out of the carb, but it should smooth out in a short time.
You could also look at this thread - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4013&p=44920&hilit=carb+cleaning#p44920 (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4013&p=44920&hilit=carb+cleaning#p44920) and there are many other on here. Do a search for carb cleaning.

[bonehead]

I'm with mrlmd1, check your 9 year old spark plug. $3.00 and nothing wasted. Also be sure that you have'nt accidentally hit the kill switch.
Also, be sure it has FREASH gas. New spark plug is where I would start.
Good luck.

[alanmcorcoran]

76,

Go back and read my posts. I had the same problem you are having. Don't pay $98 for a diagnostic - ask them what it costs to clean the carb, pay it, and then make sure your bike starts. Make sure they understand that you are paying them to get the bike starting easy, running smoothly, idling properly etc. You might need to have several goes at it until they accomplish that and you don't want to keep paying. Don't try and do it yourself. It's not a simple job and you'll likely not succeed. You want to ride the bike yes? If you want to be a mechanic that's different.

Good luck. Dont take the jabs on here personally. We're kind of a cranky bunch.

[geezer]

you think this carb is hard to work on? my god son i had that little thing out and apart in about 30 mins. this is the easiest bike i have ever worked on. i think you and this guy need to get your hand dirty and dive in! hey dont take my jabs personally i myself am a crotchety old man :retard:

[alanmcorcoran]

To each his own geezer. You probably have a history of actually improving the situation and quite possibly have "worked on" other bikes and other carbs. This gentleman appears to be be somewhat new to the world of wrenchery and things motorized. Given his success rate and instruction following with his battery situation, I concluded his mechanical abilities were closer to mine (as in nonexistent) and thought he'd be more likely to achieve his goal of actually riding his new vehicle if he enlisted the help of an expert. But, I mighta been wrong. I flat out told him the battery wasn't the problem, it was the carb, (and yet he bought new battery.)

FWIW, I have a lot of internal inertia to overcome before I'm willing to get my hands dirty. I'm not that interested in doing the actual fixing, not that good at it, and I have a really expensive piano that I'd be also getting dirty - so it's really just easier all around if i keep my hands nice, soft, pink and clean. I will concede, however, in a post zombie apocalyptic situation, if I can't fix my shit myself, I'm either gonna end up as somebody's bitch or, more'n likely - zombie. Fortunately, the KLR seems to be less cranky about carb stuff - that's my Zombie Tested/Zombie Approved (ZTZA) post apocalypse ride of choice anyway. Also - I now have three bikes, so I have good odds that at least one of them is ridable without me having to eff with it.

[geezer]

ok fine,

anyway my bike sat for years too, it makes me wonder why people dont ride these more often, cus 70mpg is kinda hard to ignore!

[alanmcorcoran]

What with gas going back up towards 5 bucks in CA, I'm thinking about putting the Geezer up for sale again, but, I've sort of gotten used to it in the lineup as the around towner. It's hard just to climb on the KLR without pulling a muscle and the Geezer fits between the two cages parked in the driveway a lot better than the Strat. But I think I'd probably just ride the Strat more if I sold it. Then there is the interest from friends/heirs in learning to ride on it. I'll probably do what I always do - think a lot, talk a lot and do nothing.