no start - electrical problem

[Rick]

Ok, I looked around and found some good information, but any add'l input on this is appreciated.

Problem: bike will not start. No click, no sound whatsoever. Lights come on fine, including neutral light. Checked battery - appx. 12.5v, and appx. 11.5 with key on. No change in voltage when starter button pressed. Checked voltage at starter relay connector (B/W and Y/B wires from harness) - no voltage. Checked voltage at side stand switch connector and it appears to be low with stand down (.8 with stand up, .88 with stand down). I'm not sure how to test the actual switches, as I'm not very familiar with using a multimeter, but I did jump the side stand switch and it wouldn't start. So I don't think it's the side stand switch.

History: a couple years ago, turn signals started working intermittently. About 1 in every 10 starts signals would not work for the first minute or 2, then worked fine. More recently (about 2 months ago), the starting problem started happening intermittently, it would start fine maybe 7 out of 10 times, but now I get nothing at all.

I'm guessing that it's the side stand/turn signal relay, but I'm no mechanic and before I start replacing stuff I'd like to hear what you experienced guys think. Also, I'm not exactly understanding the repair manual instruction for testing the side stand relay. Any input on how to do that would be great.

Thanks
Rick

[Easy Rider]

Checked battery - appx. 12.5v, and appx. 11.5 with key on. No change in voltage when starter button pressed.

Easiest and most likely things first.

Start button switch. Most likely cause, actually.
If it's the side stand switch, it still should start in neutral and/or with the clutch pulled in.

Your observed voltage drop with just the ignition on sounds like a little too much......but it might be normal and doesn't really enter into your present problem.

[Rick]

Ok, definitely no start with clutch in or neutral. Do you know if there is a way to test the starter button?

[Water Warrior 2]

Give the side stand switch a shot of WD-40 whether it needs it or not. Work the little plunger a few times. Next you will want to check the clutch safety switch. There is a switch mounted on the clutch handle perch that has to be checked for proper contact. Normally they will just come unplugged enough to cause grief.
Also give the start button a shot of contact cleaner.

[Easy Rider]

Do you know if there is a way to test the starter button?

Yes. You need a meter and a wiring diagram; shop manual available here for download.

[Water Warrior 2]

I should have asked before but never thought of it. Does the headlight go out when you try to start the bike ? The starter button is a dual function switch serving the starter and headlight. When you push the button the headlight power is interupted and the starter is powered up. If the headlight does not go out when pushing the button I would be suspicious of that button. Drown it in contact cleaner and keep working the button with the key off. Could just be a lot of corrosion in there. Also work the red kill switch a lot. They are both out there exposed to the elements everyday.

[alantf]

If the headlight does not go out when pushing the button I would be suspicious of that button.

Whoops........ I think you're wrong about this. The Geezer headlight doesn't cut out when the button is pressed. Must be some other bike you're thinking of. :)

[Rick]

Thanks for the tips. I do have a meter but am pretty green on using it. The manual has detailed instructions on testing some parts but not others. For the switch should I just touch the contacts and test for voltage?

[alantf]

I do have a meter but am pretty green on using it. For the switch should I just touch the contacts and test for voltage?

No..... Test from the "live" side of the switch to negative (the bike frame is at negative potential) There should be a voltage of at least 12v if the battery is fully charged. If you get a voltage, then test from the "dead" side of the switch to negative. There should be no voltage. Get someone to press the button, and if it is o.k. the meter will show a voltage again. If it stops at zero, then the switch is faulty. BTW, make sure the meter is set for d.c. voltage, not a.c. :)

[Water Warrior 2]

If the headlight does not go out when pushing the button I would be suspicious of that button.

Whoops........ I think you're wrong about this. The Geezer headlight doesn't cut out when the button is pressed. Must be some other bike you're thinking of. :)
Oops is right. I stand corrected. It's been a while since we had a GZ in the stable.

[mrlmd1]

Have you fully charged up the battery since this started? Checked the battery connections for corrosion?
Did this happen suddenly one day, ie, it was OK the day before it wouldn't start, or was the bike sitting for a long time not being used?
Does the battery voltage drop from 12.5 to 11.5v as soon as you turn the key to the ON position, or when you hit the start button?
It sounds to me like you have a dead battery and you should attend to that before you start ripping the bike apart and looking for something more exotic. The voltage drop is probably just from the lights being on when you turn on the key. If you measure the voltage when you hit the start button, it probably drops to 8-10 and will not turn over the starter. Charge up the battery and see what happens.

[bonehead]

A fully charged battery should be upwards around 13v. I'd start with a charge and see if that does'nt get it going. If you still have problems, PM me and I might be able to meet you in Austin and take a look at it.

[Rick]

Well, here's an example of why I don't think it's the battery. Yesterday morning, appx. 46 degrees, starts right up. I ride it 45 miles to Austin and park it. Four hours later it's about 65 degrees, I go to start it, and nothing. So I push start it and drive it across Austin and park it again. Tested the starter right then and nothing. Another four hours go by, and it's about mid forties (nine at night), and starts right up, no problem. Ride the 40 miles home. What happens today is anyones guess. I haven't had time the past few days but I guess I just need to go down the line and test every connection.

[Water Warrior 2]

Rick, sounds like a temperature sensitive loose connection. Start with the battery connections and go from there.

[Easy Rider]

Rick, sounds like a temperature sensitive loose connection. Start with the battery connections and go from there.

Yes BUT nothing he described indicates in any way that it might not still be the battery itself.

There are connections INSIDE the battery.....and at the base of the posts.....that can go bad too.

HE NEEDS A METER TO FIND THE PROBLEM. Without that, it's all just guess work and the odds are overwhelming that the proper first guess would be the battery.......after checking the connections, that is. :biggrin:

[Rick]

good point. I'll check the battery again and the connections. Then I'll start working my way down the line with a meter.

thanks

[Easy Rider]

good point. I'll check the battery again and the connections. Then I'll start working my way down the line with a meter.


The point **IS** that you won't prove anything by "checking the battery" unless you do that while it is in "failure mode".

Unless you have someone else to help you, a set of aligator clips for your meter leads will be very helpful.......since you need to connect the + lead to various points WHILE you are also trying to start it.